Experienced on the deck

[MMI Enterprises 289]

I don't aim for this to be a debate or a thread for full on commentary but understand if some might want to elaborate on their experience based answers in order to justify or to not be misunderstood.

Please offer any or all brand/model names of sealants and/or stains you have direct experience with to the list below. If you don't know answer please leave blank.

(I am not looking for opinion of what is better or how many people believe the prior contributors info. It would be nice to see this list copied and pasted back to the thread with your additional info contributed. If your info conflicts then please just say so in a single short post that includes only the list item and your belief. Majority (or modship) will rule.

Please keep info simple as in product name and model... Hope you folks get the point of this..Is meant like a survey or a reverse directory phone book for wood care newbies such as myself so please keep list intact and if anything only growing in list items.

Cause you are also welcome in adding list items of course... :)

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

updated 4/4/2007

Exterior Wood sealants and/or stains and what we know about them

1. water based=
   
2. oil based= RS, WT, Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
   
3. parafinnic oil replenishing type product= RS, TWS, Bakers Gray Away
   
4. silica densifier product (non-strippable)=
   
5. acrylic top coat=
   
6. outter topcoat/film forming= Cabot's
   
7. permanent or 7+ year=
   
8. low sheen= RS,WT
   
9. high sheen=RS(multi-coat)
   
10. penetrating= RS,
    
11. transparent= RS,
    
12. tintable= RS,
    
13. offered pre-tinted= RS,
    
14. available mail order only= WT, Baker's
    
15. available from nationwide suppliers= RS,
    
16. not available to California=
    
17. avg's under $30 per gal.= RS,WT,Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
    
18. avg's under $50 per gal.=
    
19. can be applied to wet wood=WT, Cabot's SPF
    
20. initially usually requires more than one coat= RS,Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
    
21. usually needs stripped before reapplication=
    
22. usually lasts 2 years or more= RS,
    
23. reapplication after 2 years usually requires full strip=
    
24. lasts more then 1 year on ipe=
    
25. wood must absolutely be neutralized prior to application=
    
26. must be brushed on=
    
27. can be sprayed on with airless= RS,
    
28. can be sprayed on with pump up sprayer= RS,
    
29. can be water diluted prior to application= WT
    
30. can be sprayed on with pressure washer downstreaming or xjetting=
    
31. accepts foot traffic within 2 hours= RS,
    
32. accepts foot traffic within half day= RS,
    
33. accepts foot traffic within one day= RS,

RS=ReadySeal

TWS=Thompson's Water Seal

WT=Wood Tux

TWP= Total Wood Protectant

Please help the above abbreviation area..

..and please think additively..if it seems that we end up getting too many conflicting ideas we'll have to just chalk it up to the fact that yes indeed this other fella might like to spray with this or dilute or walk on and recoat, etc... This certainly not going to be soley a manufacture spec sheet or what they recommend and but of course they are welcome to offer info.. I want to know more so what can be done more so than what can't be done if ya get my point....beyond slander or known dangerous misuse of their chemical makeup's outside of safe practice, that should be acceptable to manufactures and our own sensibilities.

"We need to be careful not to post untrue information about products here. Field experience by contractors may or may not be based upon correct product usage.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/...uncements.html

We encourage manufacturers and distributors of the above mentioned products to participate by providing accurate information about the above mentioned products, or links to their sites where this information may be found.

Thank you.

Beth "

Format should stick if you just quote the person before you.

end--------------------------------------------------------------------

[PressurePros 249]

Wood sealer/stains and what we know about them

1. water based= I Don't use them. Most have acrylic in them.
   
2. oil based= Ready Seal, Wood Tux, Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
   
3. parafin replenishing type product= (parafin and parafinnic oil are different) Thompson's Water Seal. Wolman's F&P has parafin (wax) in it, used that as well as ststed above.
   
4. sodium metasilica non strippable product=
   
5. acrylic top coat=
   
6. film forming= solids.. prime with oil base, topcoat latex Cabot's
   
7. permanent or 7+ year=
   
8. low sheen= Wood Tux (more of a reflection from the transoxide pigmentation)
   
9. high sheen= Wood Tux over applied (multi coated)
   
10. penetrating=
    
11. transparent=
    
12. tintable= Previously Wood Tux
    
13. pre-tinted=
    
14. available mail order only= WT, Baker's
    
15. available from nationwide suppliers=
    
16. not available to California=
    
17. avg's under $30 per gal.= Everything I have listed (should be a s/f price as per gallon charge is not really relevant)
    
18. avg's under $50 per gal.=
    
19. can be applied to wet wood= WT, Cabot's SPF (lousy)
    
20. initially usually requires more than one coat= Everything but WT
    
21. usually needs stripped before reapplication=
    
22. usually lasts 2 years or more= The only products in my experience that haven't held up with proper prep were Ready Seal and the newer formulations of Sikkens SRD. The Ready Seal I guess I didn't put enough on.
    
23. reapplication after 2 years usually requires full strip=
    
24. wood must absolutely be neutralized prior to application= Wood should be in slightly acidic pH before applying oil/alkyd
    
25. must be brushed on= we spray and backbrush everything
    
26. can be sprayed on with airless= Everything, but thin oils make the "cloud of doom"
    
27. can be sprayed on with pump up sprayer= Nothing unless you want to make a mess (based on average pump up sprayer)
    
28. can be water diluted prior to application= Only WT
    
29. can be sprayed on with pressure washer downstreaming or xjetting= Stripper and Acid
    
30. accepts foot traffic within 2 hours=
    
31. accepts foot traffic within half day=
    
32. accepts foot traffic within one day= I would say this is most if you define traffic as multiple people walking on it. I tell people to stay off of it for 48 hrs.

[RPetry 564]

Kevin,

For an overview, you may want to go to: http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/6885-2006-sealer-poll-you-using-year.html

I'll play.

Stain: Ready Seal

1. water based=No
   
2. oil based=Yes
   
3. parafin replenishing type product=Yes
   
4. sodium metasilica non strippable product=No
   
5. acrylic top coat=No
   
6. film forming=No
   
7. permanent or 7+ year=No
   
8. low sheen=Yes
   
9. high sheen=No
   
10. penetrating=Yes
    
11. transparent=semi-transparent Yes
    
12. tintable=Yes
    
13. pre-tinted=Yes
    
14. available mail order only=No
    
15. available from nationwide suppliers=Yes
    
16. not available to California=Your question should read: "Is it available in California?". Yes
    
17. avg's under $30 per gal.=Yes
    
18. avg's under $50 per gal.=Yes
    
19. can be applied to wet wood=No, never, shame on those that do. Needs wood <= 12%
    
20. initially usually requires more than one coat=Yes horizontals, usually one heavy app vertical wood.
    
21. usually needs stripped before reapplication=Never
    
22. usually lasts 2 years or more=Yes, 2 yrs. light cleaning and an oil replenishment
    
23. reapplication after 2 years usually requires full strip=No
    
24. wood must absolutely be neutralized prior to application=absolutely, don't know. Should be, Yes
    
25. must be brushed on=No
    
26. can be sprayed on with airless=Yes
    
27. can be sprayed on with pump up sprayer=Yes
    
28. can be water diluted prior to application=Lord NO!
    
29. can be sprayed on with pressure washer downstreaming or xjetting=You have to be kidding. No.
    
30. accepts foot traffic within 2 hours=In warm temps, Yes
    
31. accepts foot traffic within half day=Yes
    
32. accepts foot traffic within one day=Yes

It is suggested that you delete #4, 7 , 24, 29. For #24, thats prep and I do not think any stain likes a caustic surface, let alone the color of the wood after staining. #11 should read Semi-transparent. Most do not advocate or typically use stains without pigments. #4, 7, 29 are wacky stuff no one in their right mind would consider using.

Add hardwoods

a. Lasts one year on ipe'

b. Lasts two years on ipe'

Add maintenance.

a. Need a pressure washer for maintenance.

b. Need a wood cleaner or light stripper and a neutralizer for maintenance.

c. A light sodium hypochlorite mix with garden hose pressure is used for maintenance

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Rick, thanx for the advice, however this is not limited to already tinted stains or products. As example, some here may be using clear poly type sealants for exterior wood decking and their name product info would go in the appropriate list item.

[PressurePros 249]

I honestly have no idea what you are getting at here, Kevin. Are we supposed to elaborate more? (think additively?)

TWP is Total Wood Protectant. Its an old school contractor product that a bunch of pros still use.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Ken, ..am after no alterior motives or getting at anything specific. If you wish to elaborate yer welcome to. Maybe I should be more clear. By additively I mean I just want to get them product names into the right list spot and the overall possabilities that a product is capable or incapable of to become clearer for us newbies as a quik resource we can refer to..

Perhaps now it is clear of the format I am after... please quote the last posting of the list and add the brand names.. thanx folks :)

[RPetry 564]

Kevin,

Remove Wolman's F&P from item #3, it is linseed oil based not paraffinic. Add Bakers Gray Away to item #3, it is paraffinic oil based. Remove Ready Seal from item #16, it is available in California.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We need to be careful not to post untrue information about products here. Field experience by contractors may or may not be based upon correct product usage.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/residential-pressure-washing/announcements.html

We encourage manufacturers and distributors of the above mentioned products to participate by providing accurate information about the above mentioned products, or links to their sites where this information may be found.

Thank you.

Beth

[MMI Enterprises 289]

delete

[MMI Enterprises 289]

update:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Exterior Wood sealants and/or stains and what we know about them

1. water based=
   
2. oil based= RS, WT, Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
   
3. parafinnic oil replenishing type product= RS, TWS, Bakers Gray Away
   
4. silica densifier product (non-strippable)=
   
5. acrylic top coat=
   
6. outter topcoat/film forming= Cabot's
   
7. permanent or 7+ year=
   
8. low sheen= RS,WT
   
9. high sheen=RS(multi-coat)
   
10. penetrating= RS,
    
11. transparent= RS,
    
12. tintable= RS,
    
13. offered pre-tinted= RS,
    
14. available mail order only= WT, Baker's
    
15. available from nationwide suppliers= RS,
    
16. not available to California=
    
17. avg's under $30 per gal.= RS,WT,Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
    
18. avg's under $50 per gal.=
    
19. can be applied to wet wood=WT, Cabot's SPF
    
20. initially usually requires more than one coat= RS,Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), house brands from MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP
    
21. usually needs stripped before reapplication=
    
22. usually lasts 2 years or more= RS,
    
23. reapplication after 2 years usually requires full strip=
    
24. lasts more then 1 year on ipe=
    
25. wood must absolutely be neutralized prior to application=
    
26. must be brushed on=
    
27. can be sprayed on with airless= RS,
    
28. can be sprayed on with pump up sprayer= RS,
    
29. can be water diluted prior to application= WT
    
30. can be sprayed on with pressure washer downstreaming or xjetting=
    
31. accepts foot traffic within 2 hours= RS,
    
32. accepts foot traffic within half day= RS,
    
33. accepts foot traffic within one day= RS,

RS=Ready Seal

TWS=Thompson's Water Seal

WT=Wood Tux

TWP= Total Wood Protectant

Please help the above abbreviation area..

..and please think additively..if it seems that we end up getting too many conflicting ideas we'll have to just chalk it up to the fact that yes indeed this other fella might like to spray with this or dilute or walk on and recoat, etc... This certainly not going to be soley a manufacture spec sheet or what they recommend and but of course they are welcome to offer info.. I want to know more so what can be done more so than what can't be done if ya get my point....beyond slander or known dangerous misuse of their chemical makeup's outside of safe practice, that should be acceptable to manufactures and our own sensibilities..

"We need to be careful not to post untrue information about products here. Field experience by contractors may or may not be based upon correct product usage.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/...uncements.html

We encourage manufacturers and distributors of the above mentioned products to participate by providing accurate information about the above mentioned products, or links to their sites where this information may be found.

Thank you.

Beth "

Format should stick if you just quote the person before you.

end--------------------------------------------------------------------

Beth, ...Your site, your rules of course. :) Let us know if a line is crossed beyond subjective experienced based info provided by your professionals here at Grimescene and I'll update list to satisfy and/or add disclosure language full of "weasel words' to seperate fact from opinion... Forum has plenty of opinion and safe DIY info already and I for one want it to stay as such.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

update 4/23/07:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

Exterior Wood sealants and/or stains and what we know about them

1. broadly termed as oil based products= RS, WTW, Baker's Gray Away, Sikkens SRD, Cabots, Deckscapes (Cuprinol), CWF, Penofin, house brands from (MAB, Sherwin Williams, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP)
   
2. natural drying oil products (i.e. tung, linseed) : Superdeck
   
3. alkyd oil based (synthetic resins)= Cabot Solid 1600/7600
   
4. alkyd oil based (synthetic resins) + drying oils= Cabot (7400,AUtimber oil, clear solutions,etc.)
   
5. modified alkyd (emulsion/oil-waterbase)= OMax ?, WTW?
   
6. acrylic latex (waterbased) = Cabot Spf,Cabot Solid 1800
   
7. contains petroleum distillate oils/paraffinic oil (kerosene)rendered mineral oils or exhibits low viscosity penetration abilities (replenishing type products that usually need not be stripped prior to reapplication) = RS,TWS (may need stripped), BGray, WR Timber, penofin (brazilian rosewood oil) , Preservawood?
   
8. silica densifier product (non-strippable)= Sealmax, One Time?
   
9. topcoat/film forming= Cabot's,Omax, Sikkens Deck & DeckBase
   
10. exhibits temporary water beeding due to wax additions such as paraffin wax (bi-product of kerosene) melting or evaporating on hot days: RS, Penofin
    
11. marketed as permanent and/or lasting 7+ years= One Time? , Sealmax
    
12. low sheen= RS,WTW, Sikkens SRD
    
13. high sheen= RS(multi-coat), Sikkens Dek, WTW (multi-coat)
    
14. clear tintable transparents= Cabots Clear, Sikkens?
    
15. available mail order only= WTW, RS, BGray
    
16. available from major nationwide distributors/big box/retail= SD, Superdeck, OMax, Mwar, Cabbot, Sikkens, Penofin, Wolman's F&P
    
17. not available to California=
    
18. under $30 per gal.= RS,WR Brand,WR Timber, Sikkens SRD, Cabots (all), Bgray(contractor pricing ?), Deckscapes (Cuprinol), MWar, OMax, house brands from (MAB, SW, Ben Moore, Wolman's F&P, TWP) , Penofin Blue
    
19. under $50 per gal.= WTW, Sikkens DEK, Penofin Ultra, One Time ($80)
    
20. marketed as only requiring one initial coat= Penofin,OMax
    
21. usually needs stripped/or sanded before reapplication= OMax, CWF
    
22. lasts more then 1 year on ipe=
    
23. must be thinned to spray with non-airless type sprayers=
    
24. should be sprayed with professional atomizing sprayers to prevent top coat finish flaws or adhesion problems,etc. in film forming type finishes= ??? (i.e.- high solid catalyzed polyurethanes or catalyzed lacquers)
    
25. can be applied with pump up sprayer= RS
    
26. no back brushing or working in required= RS
    
27. can be water diluted prior to application= WTW
    
28. can be applied to wet wood= WTW, Cabots SPF
    
29. accepts foot traffic within 2 hours= RS,
    
30. accepts foot traffic within half day= RS,
    
31. accepts foot traffic within one day= RS,

RS=Ready Seal

TWS=Thompson's Water Seal

WTW=Wood Tux Wet

WR=Woodrich

TWP= Total Wood Protectant

SW= Sherwin Williams

SD= Sherwin Williams Deckscapes

OMax= Olympic Maximum

Mwar= McCloskey Man O War

BGray= Bakers Gray Away

CWF= Flood's Clear Wood Finish

Format should stick if you just quote the person before you.

end--------------------------------------------------------------------

How about some more additions and placement info on which are film forming and need stripped before reapplying, etc. , or things in error.. :)

[MMI Enterprises 289]

some sealers can be sited as having paraffin wax cause they may bead water temporarily...

Penofin® Wood Finishes FAQs

Does Penofin wood stain bead water?

Water beading is accomplished in most wood stains by adding wax (paraffin). As soon as you get one hot day, your finish will no longer bead water because the wax melts. Penofin does not need to bead to protect.

Welcome To Readyseal.com

Why does product stop beading water?

After the product has completely soaked in, the beading will stop. This does not mean that it has stopped performing. Ready Seal is made to spread water out so it will dry up as quickly as possible. It is still keeping water out even though it is not beading water.

..Paraffin wax is by-product of petroleum distillation of kerosene as is mineral oil and many other oils in our everyday life-

kerosene: Definition and Much More from Answers.com

Paraffin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..The term paraffinic oil directly translates to mean kerosene or from kerosene in basic terms but surely what is in the replenishing type stains is something in between the two synonym prone items of straight kerosene and crayola crayons.....lol... my kids unwrap them crayons and stain wood with them pretty good..haha