WTW tips

[bigchaz 157]

700 sq foot all horizontal job I just sold with wood tux wet. Stripped the previous finish and brightened

Any tips for the WTW? I learned on my sample tests that it should be really thin. The wood is pine. Planning on using the 18 inch pad for it

Anything I should know or y'all recommend before putting it on?

[MMI Enterprises 289]

We got our pails and they were PERFECT with a capital P.

Packed to pail perfection with no punctures. Pails were placed in plastic pouches (bags) with tight closures and packing paper filled in around them, then placed in boxes and packaged up tight. (did I get enough words that begin with "P" in there?)

Way to go Scott Paul!

Beth

p.s. will report tomorrow on what I brushed on two boards.

sounds about same packaging methods with plastic and all that that other "p" fella Peirce does with the RS.....Must be almost as much work as doing these "p"'s

[bigchaz 157]

Brochures came the other day too....nice!!!!!

Really helps step up my bid folders

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Goody! Who sent them? I would love to have some.

I'll go check the two boards after my coffee.... :cup:

One cedar one PT...will report back.

Beth

[Scott Paul 164]

Goody! Who sent them? I would love to have some.

I'll go check the two boards after my coffee.... :cup:

One cedar one PT...will report back.

Beth

We have them. $10 for 100 plus shipping. If you order a 5 Gallon of Wood Tux we can waive the shipping by just putting them in the box:

TheSealerStore.com: Wood Tux Brochures Basket Contents

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Thanks Scott! :)

Now...on the boards....

First of all it rained last night.

I can report the Wood Tux held up fine, no spottiness. WT had been applied mid morning yesterday.

It was still a little wet, if I press down on it when I touch it I can get slight color off on my finger (not much), and the tackiness is much reduced. Also seems to penetrate better. I suspect that had it not rained yesterday afternoon and night, we might be in a better place today. I did check the boards before the rain, same result I am reporting now.

Beth

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Is it thicker as if it got blown more or thinner as if it got reduced more or less resin?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The viscosity seems no different. Still a tad tacky, but nowhere near like the last batch. It's much better at the 24 hour mark and passes the rain test. We'll see when we put it on a deck. I'll check the wood again later.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Hooo..Boy... Don't ask. The "why" of the question would take weeks to explain. A very long, convoluted, nightmare of a job that just never ends. Anyway, the question.

1 yr. old ipe', balustrade now done in WT warm honey gold. Due to, again, don't ask, customer now wants to change to a combo of western cedar and brown sugar.

Question. Anyone have any idea how a 2nd coat of WT would look on ipe'? Would this "custom" color dominate without muddying or obscuring the wood?

Or would it just be best to strip and start over yet again?

Thanks. Not very experienced in WT.

[bigchaz 157]

How long ago was it done? I have no idea about ipe but I tried to brush out a second coat of woodtux on a set of stair I did on pressure treated to see how it would look and the tux didn't penetrate, just got shiny if I didnt wipe it

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yes we've heard plenty on how two or even a heavy single coat will just turn things into a shiny top coat. If the need to match new boards becomes to great I may just go to hardware store and add tints till things get darker on the innitial coat..turn it into a semi-solid sorta if I have to. Scott says we can add tint so.. :)

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We got ahold of some of the good stuff from '04 and compared it to what is out now...

The newer product color is lighter, thinner and smells completely different. It also has a black pigment that always settles out to the bottom unlike the old product which never needed stirring and once you got to the bottom of the pail there was nothing sitting on it but well suspended product, evenly mixed and full of quality.

The old product we could warrant for 3 years and still have decks that are holding up quite well in comparison to what has been done last year after the reformulations.

Needless to say, we are keeping a few pails for exclusive use on our own deck. We just completed a log home using 5 of the pails and it turned out beautiful.

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-siding-log-home-care/10603-large-logs-house.html#post108627

Sorry to say (never thought I would) but Wood Tux is going down hill. Wish we had the old product available still. It was worth every penny and lasted longer than anything in it's class. Now, I fear it is the same as what is on the shelves in the box stores...a disappointment to my customers and our ability to help slow the deforestation by reducing the need to replace exterior wood before it's time.

In all fairness, the same has happened to many others that were great since the '05 reformulations for the VOC restrictions on the Atlantic coast states but it hits closest to home in a product we have staked our reputation upon.

We're in the market.

Rod!~

[yazbird8 17]

Rod..Are you saying WT is now a dinasaur product?....What are you going to replace it with?....

Yaz

Stephen Andrews

Power Washing

Home & Property

Care & Maintenance

[PressurePros 248]

I think the new formulation is now history. I too doubt the longevity of what was released this spring. From my conversations with Russell the product being made this week is what I was used to using last year. Call it Wood Tux Classic and chalk "ease of use" to a failed experiment. I am not ready to abandon the product as I believe in it. I use other products now because I wanted to see how all of this ESI turmoil shook out. But, one rainy spell and I will not be a happy camper.

[RPetry 564]

Rod,

Arrrggg! Now I am really confused. I thought the "mid to late summer" batch of WT from last year, 2006, was the good stuff. Dried without problems, better consistancy, etc.

I thought that this is what was currently or "soon to be" manufactured again. Something that I could finally use on an ipe' job that has been waiting for WT since late May.

It almost sounds like you are ascribing to WT the same problems due to VOC regs as to what happened to Cabot's Aussie Oil. Just when I committed to using WT at a customers request on ipe', it goes downhill?

Gotta' believe that ESI can get out a decent product, something compliant yet still useable for hardwoods. Come on Rod, you and Beth were the original distributors and maybe even one of the original contractors using the stain. You guys must have hundreds of wood jobs over the past 4 years with WT applied. How can you bail on the product now?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We're frustrated. We're tired of what almost seems to be the spring hiccup. We have bought an paid for many pails that were not as expected. Isn't that enough?

It's JUNE. It's LATE June.

Beth

p.s. not necessarily bailing - but exploring options? Yes. We would be fools not to.

[bigchaz 157]

Haha talk about unexpected. I started this looking for tips on applying Wood tux....Def got a good handful of that. I picked a great time to start using the tux apparently

Might be time for me to start a "ready seal tips" thread if all the people who convinced me to use wood tux go somewhere else

[Russell Cissell 65]

The product that is being sold now is exactly the same as the product that was being sold last year (2006)and in years past. We tried to tweak the formula this spring to make the product easier to use but after a number of complaints we scrapped the changes and reverted back to the original formula. ***The thinner version that was released this spring has been discontinued and is no longer available.***

If you have any questions, I am happy to answer them here in this thread, or you can call me direct at 636-288-8512.

As I stated in an earlier post. . .

Sometimes better isn't always best. We take customer feedback very seriously at ESI. Because we are a small company that deals primarily with contractors we always try to listen and deliver products that match the desires of our customers. What our customers told us about our Wood-Tux Formula was that it was "too thick."

The product was considered slightly difficult to apply because it is more heavy bodied than most stains. Being a slightly higher viscosity some smaller pump sprayers have difficulty moving the material requiring a larger orifice tip or thinning of the material. Because Wood-Tux is so high in resin and pigment solids it also requires back brushing on dense wood that isn't as absorbent as cedar for instance. Contractors who ran multiple unsupervised crews reported difficulty in training their employees to apply the product correctly.

Wood-Tux is very low in VOC making it a product that can be used in all 50 states. Because so many of our customers are in California or the more VOC restrictive states of the Northeast Corridor, simply thinning the product with mineral spirits wasn't an option. This would have resulted in lower resin solids and higher volatile content.

While it is completely fine to thin the product with spirits in the field, so long as you maintain VOC levels below that of your local restrictions, we've got to have a formula that works for all of our customers. (If you have questions about your local VOC regulations, feel free to contact me and I will point you in the right direction.)

What seemed like a simple solution proved to be too great of a challenge. Lowering the viscosity created a different type of issue. The thinner version of the stain is entirely too temperature sensitive. It requires more heat or additional dryers to cure quickly. If the temperature is too high, the dryers could cause the product to cure too quickly leading to overlapping. If the temperature is too low it takes a very long time to cure. We were able to balance the dryers to obtain the exact same cure time as the original product but only between 65 and 80 degrees.

While it has been reported (nearly 100%) that the thinner version is easier to apply, it is actually more difficult to work with because of the temperature sensitivity. Maintaining the lower viscosity would almost require two versions of the formula; one for cold weather and one for hot weather. In addition, the slower cure time makes the product more vulnerable to spot showers that occur during or immediately after application.

In a survey of contractors who have used at least 100 gallons of each formula, the vast majority prefer the thicker version because of it's obvious advantages. While it is slightly more difficult to apply it can be used in the broadest array of conditions producing predictable results. For these reasons, we have decided to roll back to the original formula and resume our full production schedule immediately.

For those who prefer a thinner, easier to apply product, we recommend Woodrich Brand Stain & Seal. It has the same level of pigment as Wood-Tux however it is slightly lower in resin solids. Woodrich Brand Stain and Seal is a 60/40 blend of Wood-Tux WET and Woodrich Brand Timber Oil which is our paraffinic oil stain.

If you are in the camp that counts paraffinic oil as a "solid," Woodrich Brand Stain & Seal is higher in solids than Wood-Tux. If you only count the resin and pigment it is slightly lower. While Wood-Tux will provide excellent one coat coverage on nearly any kind of wood, Woodrich Brand Stain & Seal may require a second coat on very old, porous or "thirsty" wood.

I sincerely regret any difficulties our customers experienced during this transition. As always we stand behind our products and will gladly work with you in any way we can. I am more than willing to answer any questions or provide additional information as needed. My current schedule should afford me more time to visit the BBS. As always, the best method of contacting me is direct at 636-288-8512.

Everyone here at ESI truly appreciates your patience and understanding.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Russell, Why you playing a rerun?...That is same post from earlier on...people had problems apparently with delivery..why not speak to that?

Whatever case.. Product sounds decent and I'll use it..

[bigchaz 157]

Ive used 5 pails so far and haven't had any problems. It looks like the problems are from people who ordered a large quantity of product in the spring. It seems that they were using the bad tux after the better stuff was already shipping.

That explains why I haven't had any problems at all compared to some who have all the drying problems.

On a side note, just did a job with brown sugar and it looks real nice. Little darker than the honey gold and customer liked that it didnt have as much of an orange look as the honey gold. Really made the pressure treated i did look great.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Kevin

I was just reposting the same information because it addresses points that were made after that original post. I figured those who were still confused may have missed it.

I am not sure what to say about delivery issues. I generally deal with them on a case by case basis. I'm sure that several people had delivery issues during the transition back to the old formula. There was a period when there was simply no product to ship. The best way to approach an issue with delivery is to call.

Right now most items are shipping in the 24 to 48 hour window.

[RPetry 564]

Russell said:

The product that is being sold now is exactly the same as the product that was being sold last year (2006)and in years past.

Ok. I give up. I want something that will cure correctly on a now 6 week old job waiting for WT or whatever stain.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

By the way, has anyone got an MSDS for Wood Tux or Woodrich Stain & Seal? I had a really old one for Wood Tux, prior to the VOC law changes, but don't have one since then (yes it is required - I checked - and every other manufacturer whose product we use who had to change due to VOC laws has them updated and online) and I have asked for both and never got them. You can email them - or post them here.

Thanks!

Beth

[drush 14]

I did weeks of research (yes, I used the search function daily) here on TGS doing my homework, made a few phone calls to some of the "deck gods", before I decided on a stain to go with. I've since done 5 decks with this product & 2 of them aren't looking too good such a short time after. Just the other day I got an e-mail from one of my customers that wasn't very reassuring & the last line was:

"btw i think the back deck could use another coat of stain."

thanks,

Walt

The batch of stain I got & used was ordered the same time ESI was moving their distribution center (invoice dated 4/12/07). I stained (walt's) new pickets & also the deck floor, but the stain seems to have "broken down" on the horizonatal 300 sq/ft flooring & turning yellowish. I am really concerned that I'm going to lose my shirt on this or just not get the other 2 deck jobs he has going on. This is a house that is having 2 other large decks remodeled & built & he wants me to stain them using the color I have already used on his back deck.

The other deck doing the same thing is mine. Some fading in various areas just doesn't look good (from a previous batch invoice dated 3/26/07). But I'm most concerned about my customers deck not looking good. I almost gave him (walt) a 1 year guarantee as I did with 2 others, but decided not to do that anymore. I don't have enough experience with WTW at this point & don't want my phone ringing 11 months later after noticing my deck.

I don't know what to do & I too, am concerned that something may not be right with what I have. I really like this WTW product & took Russell's advice to use a paint pad applicator (used to brush it on). What a difference in time it makes. It's easy to put on & looks good. I just need to know what product I have & what can I expect from it's finished look/longetivity. I don't like not knowing either & want to be able to "sell" a stable stain/sealer. Just wondering what others are doing, would do & your situation...???

[drush 14]

Wouldn't you think that with every "new" order or after a product has been re-formulated, that a new MSDS would be sent....??? Do we as contractors have to request these..?? I've asked a few Lowe's employees where can I find them, just for fun, & most have said "what is that".... FWIW

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick, the jury is still out.

Rod!~