Need to strip my decks - advice please!!!

[mas3372 14]

Hey,

Last spring I was a fool. I sealed my pt deck with cabots semi transparent cedar and my front porch deck with cabots solid cedar - both oil based. I used the cabots before I learned of the better quality stuff out there and this year I hate it.

To be honest, I am ashamed that as a professional in this business, I have a Lowes brand at my own home.

I want to strip it and then seal with ready seal.

I have on hand F-18 max and straight Oxalic.

Any advice on stripping cabots and brighting. I would like this to come out great for a portfolio job as wel.

Any and all help it greatly appriciated.

PS. One more thing- GO SOX!!!

[bigchaz 157]

What don't you like about the cabots semi? Ive done quite a few with the decking stain for people that like a more opaque look and theyve all come out real well.

What type of look are you going for? What type of wood is it?

[RPetry 564]

Mike,

The solid cedar Cabot's on the front porch will probably be the toughest challenge.

Yesterday, we finished stripping a 3 yr. old Cabot's old 1600 series solid oil off of a very large deck as a prep for the new 7600 series solid oil. 12 oz./gal. of ACR 760 (similar to F-18) got most of it off the horizontals, and ~ 80% off the vertical wood. Good enough for our purposes.

As your porch is covered I assume, the 1 yr. old stain has probably not degraded due to UV exposure and moisture. Maybe try 12, 16, or even 18 oz. of F-18 / gal. and test a small area first. Let it dwell, possibly for 1/2 hr. or even longer, and keep it wet with more stripper. Scrubbing the stripper into the old stain can help a lot. Most of the old solid should should be removed.

Probably will have to do a bit of sanding to get the final areas clean of the old stain.

I would assume the semi-trans Cabot should be a lot easier.

[mas3372 14]

Thanks for the help. The semi cabots has started to wear after 10 months, mostly on the stairs and outside the door. I want to try ready seal or woodtux so I can see first hand why everyone raves about them. The pics on readyseals website are quite appetizing.

The porch has no spindles, just 150 ft2 of deck boards - PT. Already showing some signs of wear. If I mix the F-18 at 16 per gallon or so to try, is that then applied in a pump up sprayer or downstreamed.

Thanks.

[RPetry 564]

Mike,

I know nothing of downstreaming stripper. I mean a hot NaOH mix of 12 or more oz. / gal. of stripper on the wood. A pump up is ok, just make sure to protect yourself and surroundings.

A nylon brush on a pole can be used to scrub the stripper into the Cabot's. Then apply more stripper and do not let it dry out before PW off.

[mas3372 14]

Thanks Rick, I never thought about just brushing it on. I will try that when I get started. When you neutrilize, do you do so after a complete rinse and then then let the oxalic dwell then rinse as well, or leave the ox to let dry. Thanks.

[bigchaz 157]

People seem to be 50/50 on rinsing ox or letting it go. I think readyseal likes a more acidic base you you might be best just spraying it on when the wood is wet and leaving it there

[RPetry 564]

Mike,

It is probably faster and easier to lay down the stripper on the wood with your pump up, then scrub the stripper into the finish with your brush. Use the pump up again to spray more stripper on the finish after brushing. It is very important not to let the stripper dry prior to rinsing.

Use your PW to give the wood a hard rinse to remove the stripper/old finish. Then rinse again with a lot of water. This is where a dual lance is helpful with the "dump" tip. If the wash water looks "sudsy", rinse throughly one more time.

We have never used oxalic, only citric acid. Nearly all our jobs are stained with Ready Seal, and the citric acid is not rinsed off the wood. The only other stain we use are Cabot oil solids, and for prep we do rinse the citric acid off after a 15 - 20 minute dwell.

[Ron G. 14]

Mike,

It is probably faster and easier to lay down the stripper on the wood with your pump up, then scrub the stripper into the finish with your brush. Use the pump up again to spray more stripper on the finish after brushing. It is very important not to let the stripper dry prior to rinsing.

Use your PW to give the wood a hard rinse to remove the stripper/old finish. Then rinse again with a lot of water. This is where a dual lance is helpful with the "dump" tip. If the wash water looks "sudsy", rinse throughly one more time.

We have never used oxalic, only citric acid. Nearly all our jobs are stained with Ready Seal, and the citric acid is not rinsed off the wood. The only other stain we use are Cabot oil solids, and for prep we do rinse the citric acid off after a 15 - 20 minute dwell.

Rick,

Why is it that you rinse citralic when using one product but not the other?

What would you do in the case of cedar, or exotics?

[RPetry 564]

Ron,

Ready Seal is very compatible and reportedly penetrates better if the wood is a bit acidic. Not that RS has any penetrating problems! Cedar, ipe', mahogany, merantis, etc., we have never rinsed citric acid off the wood when using RS. It is a fairly light mix, 6 oz./gal.

The solid oil customers we have can be counted on one hand. I generally do not take on these jobs unless it is a relative, neighbor, or strong referral from an existing customer. Just don't care to do them. Do not know much about the stain, but have the impression that linseed oil based stains may be better with a "neutral" ph wood.

[PressurePros 249]

Rick, what did you think about Russell's post re: salts formed when neutralising and the importance of rinsing after applying acid?

[mas3372 14]

Rick,

Thanks so much for the help. I will hopefully find the chance within the next week or two. I will use a pump up, scrub, dwell, apply, dwell and rinse like crazy. Perhaps I will grab some citralic by then, do you feel as though citralic is superior to oxalic,or just your preference?

I also need to decide If I want to try the Ready Seal or WTW. The WTW seams great because I can apply wet, but there seams to be more pics out there of how great ready seal looks. Decisions!!!

[plainpainter 217]

Mike Citralic is a brand name that Russell uses for his acid which is a blend of citric and oxalic - Rick on the other hand uses a straight citric acid on his woods. If you don't mind joining the tests of oxalic vs. citric. Why not try brightening one side of your deck with citric and the other with oxalic and try using WTW. This would ammend Ricks tests using Ready Seal.

[Greg R 82]

If your using a film based (at any level) you will want to rinse the acid from the deck. An oil like Ready Seal doesn't require it becuase it forms no film therefore the salts cannot be trapped under the finish.

Brighter under a film finish can cause a white haze to come through the finish. We had it happen on of all things a log home before when using Menwood and the only solution we could come up with is to strip and refinish.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

If your using a film based (at any level) you will want to rinse the acid from the deck. An oil like Ready Seal doesn't require it becuase it forms no film therefore the salts cannot be trapped under the finish.

Brighter under a film finish can cause a white haze to come through the finish. We had it happen on of all things a log home before when using Menwood and the only solution we could come up with is to strip and refinish.

That along with what Russle said pretty much says it..is same reasoning why I must keep interior flooring neutral before acrylic coating..

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Rick,

Thanks so much for the help. I will hopefully find the chance within the next week or two. I will use a pump up, scrub, dwell, apply, dwell and rinse like crazy. Perhaps I will grab some citralic by then, do you feel as though citralic is superior to oxalic,or just your preference?

I also need to decide If I want to try the Ready Seal or WTW. The WTW seams great because I can apply wet, but there seams to be more pics out there of how great ready seal looks. Decisions!!!

I have more pics of WTW then RS. It just depends on if you want a film or not. Is not a bad thing persay to have a film or to not have a film. Is personal choice. The difference between some film formers though is that the film don't come off easily... decisions decisions..

[PressurePros 249]

Where is there a film in either of the products you mentioned? You are Mr Scientist whom thrives in detail. Surely you meant curing penetrating sealer vs non-drying oil? I know you wouldn't want to be known to give out misinformation now would you, Kevin? (just pulling your leg)

[mas3372 14]

The no film is why I like the ready seal, I understand that the WTW leaves a layer of sorts. If you have some pics of WTW and want to share, that would be great.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

As you know I Hardly could be considered a scientist here Ken as my math skills and memory stink..yer just pulling leg as I did you smarty pants..haha.. :)

..surely there be no need to educate true woodies here on this forum but for the unknowing and just in case: "Where is there a film in either of the products you mentioned?" ...somewhat more on top than the other one ,lol, one has resin and the other not.

In WTW's case the resin is apparently boiled/modified/curing natural oils rather then synthetic urethanes or silicones which could be used in some exterior products. Russell said it don't so...

You put it well with "curing penetrating sealer vs non-drying oil" but to be clear not all curing sealers are to everyones liking.

[PressurePros 249]

Wood Tux penetrates wood, Mike. Don't believe what you read from those that don't use it. Just looked at a three year old WT deck and it was faded. We washed with a little bleach and soap and restained it. One gallon covered 400 s/f and it looked like new. WT is a penetrating oil that cures. That's the definition of sealer. I have heard Ready Seal has added resins. Maybe the RS crowd can jump in with info on that. Technically, by legal definition, RS should cure to be called a sealer. (ie use the name "seal" in the product name) If they added resins then it is more similar to Wood Rich.

[PressurePros 249]

Kevin, I hear ya on everyone having different ideas of what a good exterior wood product is. I don't think tanning oil is the best thing for wood. The funniest part is, the main thing paraffinic advocates shout about is conditioning the wood when in fact, these types of non-drying oils actually dry out the wood. (this statement is gonna hang me out to dry)

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Ken, who says WT don't penetrate?..

Maybe my best novice advice to Mike can be that if not over-applied WT is supposedly recoat friendly same as an RS type product cause it not likely to show an unsightly partially removed film like junk product might... It barely shows a film with one coat as most recommend using and what with normal wear and the easy strip characteristics people speak of, it seems a good choice for down the road.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Ken, I would be interested to see more info on kerosene derived mineral oil based parafinnics drying out wood. Also interested about resins possably being in RS now?? And if you happen to have some info on linseed or tung oil swelling wood fibers while your at it I be interested in that too... (got to feed wood something, can't be all that bad can it?)

Haha , the tanning oil statement is a bold one Ken.. I assume you mean to liken the RS product to not having any uv protection? Thought that is what the transoxide pigments are for.... Your really asking that RS crowd in here to whoop on you hu?..lmaof :)

[PressurePros 249]

Not likening it to non UV protecting but rather to what parafinic oil is..mineral oil. I realize it has pigmentation, albeit a fairly low, if not industry standard, amount. Isn't mineral oil the main ingredient in tanning oil?

About drying out wood..A non drying oil will penetrate deeply then leech back out and wash away every time it rains. When it comes out, with it comes the natural sugar and oils from the wood. Negatively displacing the wood's natural protection leaves more areas that the wood can absorb water. As you know, the evaporative cycles are what warps wood. It can be argued and it probably holds true that this wouldn't make a difference as long as you continuously used artifical replacement (ie more paraffinic oil) so the point is moot but saying its the best product for wood is not true.

My crusade against RS is not because I dislike the product, its salespeople, or the guys that devotedly sing its praises. Its because of the misinformative propaganda that it is something special. It has drawbacks as do all stains/sealers. I've used it and found it desperately wanting in pigmentation, very expensive to use, and not conducive to staying on any kind of real staining schedule here in the northeast. On top of that customers complained about it getting it on clothes and carpets.

The resin thing is possibly a rumor..just grapevine stuff.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Oh ok I got ya and feel ya on the idea of weather taking it's toll through cycles of evaporation. If the evaporation was all even then it wouldn't matter so much. Wood can be wet as long as it is dispersed evenly or a certain vapor content is allowed to pass through. Do you have what amount that would be for wood?. Concrete is like 2% acceptable.

But I don't have adog in the running here really and don't know what the RS people claim their product can or can't do. I thought they were all about getting some gray protecting pigment in the wood is all...

Tanning oil for skin is like natural cocoa or olive oilsand may include some uv protection. Baby oil is mineral oil and considered a moisturizer that people joke about when someone uses it for protection like in the movies. The joke is that they end up looking like a lobster..lol

We use a mineral oil and parafin based product called Alboline here at the house for makeup removal and other duties....good stuff :)

[Greg R 82]

=About drying out wood..A non drying oil will penetrate deeply then leech back out and wash away every time it rains.

Can't say I agree with that statement but anyway...

How is that any worse than a film former that no longer beads water after 12 to 18 months (if that). I have no doubt whatsoever that there's still a great deal of readyseal in the wood when it comes time for maintenance 2 to 3 years down the road. Maintenance applications and the amount of product required to "rejuvinate" the protection speak volumes.

I guess the real question is... would you rather be waterproof (readyseal) or holding an unbrella (film former)? :)

No one finish is perfect by any means and for just that reason we use a couple products. Older neglected (and not so pretty) decks often get more of a film based finish (TimberStain UV or TWP - local stuff) while all others that are in decent condition get ReadySeal.

The theory of the oil (to replenish) then the film (to protect) makes the most sense for wood care but you could never make it work IMO and maintain a profitable business model.

Take Care -