RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 27, 2004 In a few weeks, I will be proposing an idea to a community in my area for a contract to clean the driveways in the entire community (actually, about 90% of them). Should the proposal go through, I will have about 3 months to buy and piece together some equipment. The setup I have now will not allow me to complete the number of jobs (between 300 and 400 houses) in a reasonable amount of time. So, here's the skinny. I need to build a setup that will allow me to clean anywhere between 5 and 10 driveways per day, each being approximately 1000 square feet. I have the capacity to carry 500 gal water with me and to hook that supply into the houses' supplies to keep it full. Essentially, I would pull from my tank and refill from the house. I imagine that my output will be a little greater than my input, so my day will be somewhat limited, but I won't be concerned over that now...I'll get another tank if I need to. I was looking into buying the 30" surface cleaner (Big Boy, I think it is called), but I am not sure what type of washer to get. I want hot water and I was thinking around 8 gpm, 3500 psi. Does anyone have an opinion on this? Is 8 gpm overkill, or not enough. Also, any particular brand I might want to consider? I will be stuffing everything into an enclosed trailer (12 - 14' length) if that makes any difference to anyone. Many thanks for checking this out and any help you may provide!! Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 27, 2004 Oh, I forgot to mention that I am looking into reclaim equipment for the runoff. I guess alot of my trailer will be taken up by the vacuum hose. Thanks again! Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newlook 265 Report post Posted January 27, 2004 Ryan, I am assuming you are also adding chemicals to the concrete for cleaning!?!. If this is the case, then I would not be over agressive with the 8 gpm. Chemical application should get the job done without going to crazy on the 3500. Depending on the chemical you use for the concrete ~ you should be able to get away with a 3k psi. The "Bad Boy" surface cleaner is getting very good reviews and feedback. Jon from Southern Ca. tested it our before it hit the market and has nothing but good things to say about it. If you go with a 5 gpm unit ~ you should be okay on the output vs. input issue that you addressed. Contact Beth as she is selling hot/cold units ~ I am sure she could walk you through with what you will need as far as a brand is concerned. Hope this helps. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 In my opinion, 5gpm @3000 psi will be plenty, for what you plan to do. You can drop pressure as you add in chems to assist with the work. As far as the vacuum hose goes, you can get a reel like the carpet cleaners use and they hold up to 300 feet, which will be more than enough for this and most jobs. What do you plan to use for a vacuum? That will dictate how much hose you can use. Most wet vac use 1.5" hose at about 10 feet and increase to 25 feet when using 2" hose. If you want alot more, then you need to get a good vacuum, so you can maintain suction. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Carlos/Alan, Actually, I have already done a few homes in the community. From what I have done thus far, the driveways mostly have dirt that comes off very easily with cold water at 4 gpm. I have only had a few spots and patches on some of the driveways with stubborn mold/mildew. I wanted to stay away from using chemicals if I could help it just because this will be such a large job and I wasn't sure how effective my reclaim setup would be. I figured the hot water would be more than sufficient for this type of work. There are a few driveways I have seen, however, that do have a little more grime than others, and I would use chemicals on those. Alan, Have you seen anyone, or have you done yourself, reclaiming straight from the surface cleaner? I was wondering if running the vacuum hose directly to the cleaner and having a wide suction attatchment slightly above the ground behind the unit would work to pull the water up after cleaning. This may not be necessary for this particular job, but just curious. I am mainly worried about the water pooling up in certain areas on the driveway. Thanks for the input! RyanH. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by RyanH Alan, Have you seen anyone, or have you done yourself, reclaiming straight from the surface cleaner? Yes, I do this. I have a Steel Eagle Surface cleaner that was built for this. Originally posted by RyanH I was wondering if running the vacuum hose directly to the cleaner and having a wide suction attatchment slightly above the ground behind the unit would work to pull the water up after cleaning. What you described sounds like how an auto scrubber is set up. If the pick up is behind the surface cleaner, then what will you use to make the water go there rather than all around? You need a very strong vacuum if you want to use enough hose to prevent from moving the vacuum all the time. Originally posted by RyanH This may not be necessary for this particular job, but just curious. I am mainly worried about the water pooling up in certain areas on the driveway. For pooling water you can using a vacuum wand and pick it up after you finish. Home Depot sells what they call a utility nozzle in the vacuum section. They are about $6.00 or so, and can be connected to the end of a 2" vacuum hose. Place the nozzle wherever the water flows to and it acts as a portable drain. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick G 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 As a general rule the more gpm the better. Also hot water is better for an application like this. Cost is a factor for most so most settle for around 4 or 5 gpm cold. If you go with 4 or 5gpm I would get a 20 in surface cleaner. I have heard from more than one person that you can get faster and better results that way. If you go with a higher gpm or hot water then go with the 30 in. If it where me using what I have now (4.5 @ 3500 cold and a 20 in) I would not use any chems, cover the drains on the street, clean as many driveways as I could and then go back and blow the standing water left around the drains into the grass for bio redemption. (let as much as you can evaporate) If there is oil on some of the drives then you can burm those off and suck it up with a sump. Check with your local governing body to make sure that this is expectable. As each drive is finished I would lay down some pool chlorine to whiten it up and make the cleaning last longer. Just a suggestion. Rick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Originally posted by Rick G As each drive is finished I would lay down some pool chlorine to whiten it up and make the cleaning last longer. Just a suggestion. Rick Rick, How does the chlorine make the cleaning last longer? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Hmmm. Alan, you might should call Steel Eagle and ask for some commission. I think you have sold me on some of their equipment. I don't particularly like the idea of having to drag the vacuum hose with me as I clean, but I *do* like he convenience of having everything done at once, so I am going to seriously consider this route. I think I am more fortunate than most as this one job should more than pay for all of the equipment, so I don't have to worry about buying everything and sweating until it's paid off. Because of this, I am not going to let cost be a huge factor in my final decision....I want to get the right equipment now (while I can afford it) so that I won't regret it in the future. Plus, having the reclaim equipment should put me in a totally different league than most of the competition around here. Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick G 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 In our area (south fl) mold is the problem on most drives and patios. It will get mold before it gets dirty from general soil or dirt. The chlorine retards the growth for a little longer. This may not be applicable in other parts of the country. Sorry I should have been clearer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick G 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Vacuum is the way to go if you can afford it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Don't count your eggs before they hatch. Are you sure you will get this job? Here is one problem with recovery. Alot of people think that they can charge alot more and then find out that they can't because of competition and then they get bummed since they have all this equipment and can not pay for it with higher prices. Truth is, and many do not want to hear this, but recovery is just another part of doing business. Does not mean that we can always charge more, but means that we are in compliance and will not get fined. In the long term, it saves money as you can operate just about anywhere and not have to refuse jobs. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 I will not get the equipment until I have the jobs confirmed. The story goes like this: I did a few houses in the community and noticed that the sidewalks were looking pretty shabby. I talked to some of the homeowners for whom I cleaned and they said that it had been brought up several times at community meetings but they didn't want to pay the thousands of $$$ it would take to to clean them. I also noticed that many of the driveways looked to be in need of cleaning, so I pitched pitched an idea. If I could get an agreement from the homeowners to pay to have their driveways (and any other part of their home) cleaned within a certain time frame, I would do the sidewalks for free. May not sound like a good deal, but the distance from one sidewalk to the next is roughly 80 ft. I figured with a 30" cleaner I can do that in no time, and since I am already parked at one driveway and hooked up to the supply, it will be all that much faster. The homeowners get a clean driveway (which they pay for) and the community gets clean sidewalks at no cost to the community fund. Everyone wins. I would ask for an agreement from 90% of the community and have contracts binding them to the work (basically so I don't buy the equipment and then have them bail out). The community is rather exclusive and there is a great "group" mentality among the residents. I have spoken to a few homeowners as well as the HOA president and they all think it is a great idea. I just have to come to some meetings and formally propose the idea. So, I have a few months before this happens and I would like to find the "perfect" system. I'm looking to put around $8 - $10 k into the whole setup. Don't know if that is an unreasonably low number or not, but like I said, I just started looking. Again, thanks for the opinions! Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
One Tough Pressure 580 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Shop hard and long and you can find some quality used equipment. That is a good chunk of change, but it is a little on the low side for washer and reclaim, unless you can build some stuff yourself. What will you do with the recovered water? Have you checked into the water regs for your city? I figure at least 100 gallons and then some for each driveway, as you said 1000 sq ft each. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
newlook 265 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Ryan, You mentioned that you would like to get at least 5-10 driveways done per day. This means you will do the sidewalks also. What about the cars that are parked along the sidewalks? When you are washing the sidewalks you will definately have water hitting the cars that are parked there. I would hate to have a homeowner come out and tell me that their car has a scratch on it or damage done to it because something (a small pebble) hit it while you where working. Ouch!:o Consider the logistics that may need to go into this before you agree to tackle this for them. Carlos Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Ryan, Email me or call me toll free. We are in the midst of building a new online store, and everything you could need, we can get. Beth;) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Carlos, I have already considered many of the problems that can occur with a job of this scale. Fortunately, the guidelines of the community restrict parking on the street unless it is for service reasons (meter checking, lawn care, UPS/Fedex, etc.), so I really won't have to contend with this. Also, from inspection, very few homes have cars parked in the driveway at any given time, so I will only have a few instances where I will have to make special arrangements for that. The drainage of the yards and driveways is rather poor, however. That is why I am looking into the recovery. Thanks for the help! Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Alan, I had considered filtering most of the water to reuse (similar to your setup). This way, I shouldn't need to use nearly as much water as without filtering. This should be VERY useful when the summer draughts come around. Also should help me to get contracts with gas stations and local restaraunts. As for dumping, I would dump the "green" water (no chemicals, only dirt and grime) into recovery drains to allow it to be retreated and used by the local water authority. I would like to look into the oil separators like you have to clean the other water. Ultimately, I guess I would like to recycle the water as many times as I can in the same tank. Time to put the engineering hat on! Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Rick G 14 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Alan can answer this but I think there is a limit to how many times you can filter and reuse the water. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron Musgraves 240 Report post Posted January 28, 2004 Ryan, call me if you need too Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 533 Report post Posted January 29, 2004 Green water? Wording is very important here, there is BLACK water, Grey WATER and RECLAIMED water. I have reclaimed water, if you have black water and your on the road without the proper permits your in muddy water. Grey water they also consider black so if you have a filtering system it is reclaimed and legal on the roads. Most places anyway, some might be more strict since they read the law differently but where you dump it when done is a concern too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted January 29, 2004 Sorry about the confusion. By "green" I meant free of any chemicals; only the dirt and mildew that was on the driveway to begin with. Ryan H. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jon 533 Report post Posted January 29, 2004 Ryan your forgiven but do it again and Dirty Harry might hunt you down:D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
