Osborne brush or 60 grit sand paper

[dperrin 14]

Hi, just wanted to get some advice and opinions on these two items. When deferring a deck or touching up, which is better an Osborne brush or sand paper?

Also, I went to HomeDepot looking for something to backbrush with and they only had lambswool. Is this what most people are using. I am looking for something that will work well on deck floors to even out the stain after spraying.

Thanks.

[Celeste 341]

Osborne here. For back brushing, the Sealer Store has great pads and brushes. A soft concrete finishing broom is also very effective.

Celeste

[Celeste 341]

dperrin, this is totally off topic, but I clicked on your website. Why (and feel free to tell me to MYOB) do you have Google ads for your competitors on your front page?

[big mike 14]

Well, we use both on occasion and 3M defelting pads . The Osborn brush really makes fast work of floors and handrails. We do use sandpaper on spindles or areas that may have raised grain issues. Ideally, the best route is to try to perfect your chem use and washing techniques to avoid the furring. I think I only broke out the defurring equipment 5-6 times last year out of 60+ decks. If I could only have one item to defur with it would definitely be the Osborn brush.

As for back brushing, use whatever works best for you. Some use rollers, some use lambs wool, some use pads. We almost exclusively use Shurline pads because they will soak up any puddling, and don't drip as much as the others. The only spraying we do is on the spindles. All horizontals are by hand for us.

[dperrin 14]

So you dont spray the deck? Do you roll or brush it?

Where do you get the pads for backbrushing from?

Thanks.

[Celeste 341]

What kind of stain are you putting down? The Sealer Store sells a neat pad - Shurline / EZ Painter

[big mike 14]

David,

It's been debated before on here and other BBS, but we don't spray because of the time it takes to set up plastic, etc. Also, many in this neck of the woods have seen the result of careless hacks who don't know how to prep properly. I do sometimes spray spindles with a homemade shurflo sprayer, and we always spray fences. I just like the control of applying with a pad, and my workers have less to screw up with, LOL. I get Shurline pads at HD, Lowes, etc.

[dperrin 14]

dperrin, this is totally off topic, but I clicked on your website. Why (and feel free to tell me to MYOB) do you have Google ads for your competitors on your front page?

I use a web site for adsense revenue and sales leads. I position my site for both. As an example I am almost on the first page of google for 'pressure washing'. I have been working on spot for a couple months now. This is a very general phrase but gets lots of traffic. I will make a good bit of money each month from adwords but I will never get a job from this key word phrase.

Most people using more specific keywords when they actually want to find a contractor for a job. So I also position my site for key words that are local to my area. Like 'acworth pressure washing'. I am #1 for this term, as well as others. These are people that will call me for a job. Yes they might click on an adsense ad but not likely. Mainly because there are almost no advertisers that use adsense for such small nitches. Anyway hope that all makes some sense.

[dperrin 14]

What kind of stain are you putting down? The Sealer Store sells a neat pad - Shurline / EZ Painter

I am using WTW or RS depending on the customer. We have been using a roller but dont like the way it comes out most of the time. Have to back brush again much of the time.

[Celeste 341]

Rollers suck up so much stain! The large pads that Scott has work GREAT on exotics and we spray PT wood. There are others though that have good success on regular wood with the mops. Spraying & backbrushing with the concrete brooms is fast.

[dperrin 14]

David,

It's been debated before on here and other BBS, but we don't spray because of the time it takes to set up plastic, etc. Also, many in this neck of the woods have seen the result of careless hacks who don't know how to prep properly. I do sometimes spray spindles with a homemade shurflo sprayer, and we always spray fences. I just like the control of applying with a pad, and my workers have less to screw up with, LOL. I get Shurline pads at HD, Lowes, etc.

Personaly I would rather not spray but getting into the cracks is such a pain. You almost have to spray.

[Celeste 341]

You can address cracks with a good brush (see 4" & 6" stain brushes that The Sealer Store offers) Spraying is not for everyone but once you get it fine tuned - look out - efficiency is King!

Celeste

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Spray here...

Been using small shurline pads on a hinged applicator/extension pole to back brush.. Often times that let's me smooth things out without walking on things. Would like a more reliable applicator that doesn't loose the pads or break though. Nothing about them but the pad itself and the hinged part on the one I got from Ace are worth a darn in my opinion. These are the small 6-8" sized things mind you. Maybe others using something else to be so happy with them. Need a larger more robust one here.

[Scott Paul 164]

Personaly I would rather not spray but getting into the cracks is such a pain. You almost have to spray.

Dave-

I appreciate your order yesterday. We are about 1-2 weeks away from launching our new site for contractors only: theprosealerstore.com (the new prices are not yet posted). Yesteday I was working on the prices for contractors and noticed you paid full HO price. I will adjust down your price to what the new levels will be. Roughly $11 off your invoice.

Scott

[big mike 14]

"You can address cracks with a good brush (see 4" & 6" stain brushes that The Sealer Store offers) Spraying is not for everyone but once you get it fine tuned - look out - efficiency is King!"

Celeste,

But efficiency is relative to what you do and how you do it. I'm assuming you're using an airless? All it took me was one large sprayer mishap (hose burst - pool deck made of flagstone and side of painted house covered with RS), to seal the by hand method. An HVLP may get revisited by us though. Our Shurflo setup kicks butt on large expanses such as fences. Maybe you could share some "fine tuning" techniques? I want to be THE KING;)

[James 624]

Be careful of the Osborne brush because you can burnish the wood. This will effect the penitration of the finish. I like the 3 m pads better.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jim is correct. Been there, done that...

This happens on account of the brush being used in one area too long causing the wood to heat up. It is literally like making syrup out of sugar...as it heats up, it quickly thickens and then hardens leaving a very hard varnish like residue behind. These are the woods extractives that become burnished.

The 3m pads work great as a defurring medium next to an osborn brush. Both have a place in your equipment box.

Also, keep on hand some 7" resin disks for grinding especially on spindles. Sand paper alone is ok, but I recommend using a sanding block to help avoid splintering. Remember, there are still literally thousands of decks built with CCA lumber still in service.

Grit: now there is a topic of debate. Many will have different ideas about grit and what it does to the wood and what a surface should look like before a finish is applied.

Remember that we are working on 'exterior' wood, wood that is exposed to the elements 24/7/365 until death do we tear em down. The wood grain needs to be exposed enough to allow for sufficient penetration of the product being applied. Failing this, you are going to see a quicker failure in the finish. Penetration is key.

Getting back to grit, on exterior wood, you should not be using anything higher than 80 grit. It is fine to want a smooth surface but too smooth creates a shallow substrate. The rougher the better. We use 38grit resin disks for fast material removal and 60-80 grit for smoothing of the surface depending on the species of wood being restored. It is still rough at this point but it is also very open structurally to accept a finish.

The wood will soak up more product yes, but this means the product has a better chance of lasting through all the cycles of weather yet to come. We once had a customer that told my crew that I was an idiot for not using 110grit sandpaper on his deck and showed them how much better the wood looked.

Well, my crew obviously told me about this and I confronted him on his logic. He just so happened to have done the same thing before with his deck and complained that the product he applied before was crap because it didn't last as long as touted.

I explained to him the very same things I just did here in the paragraphs above and asked why he was looking for an indoor wood (climate and temperature regulated environment) preparational step to perform in an outdoor environment where the temperatures on any given day can fluctuate as much as 30* causing wood to change dynamically in the process and expecting a finish to still hold on by it's fingertips?

The result is what he had experienced and his method was going to create the same to happen again because of his lack of practical experience in this area...well, he disagreed and we have since parted company and do not service his deck anymore but I can tell you this, it did fail in 6 months. I did a drive by check. :lol: And his neighbors still looked great. Too bad he couldn't put his ego out of the way.

Grit plays an important part in wood restoration and a finishes service life. Don't forget it.

Rod!~

[big mike 14]

A little off topic here, but I read an interesting article about "Diamond Jim" in Cleaner Times last night. Good article. Never thought they'd let a bleacher in there......:lgbounces

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Gee... can't wait to read it! ;)

Beth

[James 624]

Once you no how to use bleach there's no going back.It's funny to watch a whole new generation of woodcare people being brainwashed by the lignin scaremongers selling ( Precarbs) on the internet. Or woodcare web site's dedicated to the ill effects of using Bleach without any knowledge of how to use it or not how to use it. Just that they were told! It's only a benefit to know how to use it.

[big mike 14]

Gee... can't wait to read it!

Beth

Yeah.....good one Beth ;->

Once you no how to use bleach there's no going back.It's funny to watch a whole new generation of woodcare people being brainwashed by the lignin scaremongers selling ( Precarbs) on the internet. Or woodcare web site's dedicated to the ill effects of using Bleach without any knowledge of how to use it or not how to use it. Just that they were told! It's only a benefit to know how to use it.

Didn't mean to wake the sleeping giant. I have also learned the secrets of bleach. Maybe if we stopped calling it bleach and only went with hypochlorite it would make it all better:p

[Celeste 341]

Many of us have learned much from Master Foley.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

geez..here we go again..lol...

Personally I've had no issues with neither nice smooth wood or percarb. Would I rather use bleach or never go smoother than 80 grit? Maybe due to expense factors or what products are to be used on deck or what type customer/landscape is involved.

Nice dry wood without much oil/extractives that is open takes and holds penetrating stains fine...must be the interior/gun stock guy n me.

Taking (accepting) and holding (lasting) stain is two different things.

I tend to think that often times smoothness that doesn't 'take' stain comes by way of burnish/extractive situaton more often than not in both new or prexisting installs. Can be from Ozborn, clogged sanders runnin too fast, and foot or hand traffic. But this is cell compression/filling/burnishing of oils and not really smooth wood persay by way of sanding. Dry sanded wood is different in that it is open.. Smoothed wood 'holding' stain or not is related to top coat type staining. Can't say I ever saw a 180-220 gritted wood loose its color or oils any different then a 80 gritted if same amount was used and absorbed. 80 just makes it easier to leave a top coat. If relying on a top coat then 80 may indeed be yer best bet for grip factor. For instance I profile some types of floors to 80..most woods I go anywhere from 80 to 150 as higher is more time and expense. Wouldn't hesitate to say that many are likely endng up same when figuring in that sand paper wears and cloggs up pretty fast.