Stain/Sealer recommendations for Pergola

[ggreenwald 14]

Hello,

I'm planning to build a large 20x20 pergola in my backyard this spring. Having gone through the pain of sealing my year old 600 sqft cedar deck last year, I'm defiitely trying to figure out a way to reduce maintenance. Also, I plan to have climbing vines all over the thing (the purpose is to provide shade after all), so restaining isn't going to be a fun project and it will cut back the usefullness.

That said, I had originally planned on using rough-cut cedar components. 2x12 beams, 2x10 joists, and either 2x6 or 1x6 battens. We love the look of the rough-cut wood, and really like the added thickness over dimensional lumber. However, I'm starting to question if this is a wise move. In all honesty, if I could build something that I could stain gray and then naturally turn gray with no maintenance I would probably opt for that. The gray color would look really nice with our house. Yeah, I love the look of stained cedar in a warm brown, but I'm not sure I want to commit to the maintenance. Can cedar weather the conditions like that? I live in the Twin Cities and this will be exposed to the south and west so it will get a lot of sun.

Any recommendations based on experience? Is there anyway to successfully allow nature to take its course and still get 10-15+ years from the structure? If there is, will look like trash or can I achieve that nice silver color without warping and splitting? Finally, is there anything I should considering doing differently because of all the rough-cut frame members (i.e. is one stain better than another? I was thinking Readyseal or WoodTux if going brown - not sure for gray)?

Maybe I just need to bite the bullet and build the thing out of pressure treated SYP. Then I know I could get away with the gray stain approach.

Your thoughts and recommendations would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

Grey

[MMI Enterprises 289]

There are ways to turn wood gray without staining. (don't ask)... Time does it naturally via UV light or there are chems that can do it. However the usual needs of exterior wood is for it to have amounts of moisture/oils, natural oils to where the expansion related damages of warping, splitting, cupping, etc. are minimized. If usual penetrator type oil protectors are used over such I believe it usually looks like hell as the flat silver is lost to dark uglyness. just my oppinion...

I'd have to say we have another case here for the Olympic Max products due to wanting low to no maintenance and fact that once the plants grow all over it it will never get done again. Do it in that trendy nantucket gray if ya like.. Could also try out them expensive silica densifier products like sealwise(sp?) to force a petrify on it. But then you can never go back to it being like wood again and many would contend it not time tested enough. I would not go pressure treated for several reasons...looks like hell, not as strong as solid wood. Process hollows it out and takes away all the good stuff. Yes it disease, insect/rot protected but it will warp, crack and fall apart just fine compared to normal wood.

If you do a one time semi trans protection with most any product it will likely still be standing in 10-15 year but will be rickity and perhaps an eye sore. If you solid stain it with say a cabbot solid oil product it should be structurally good for awhile longer but it will likely show lots of ugly wear and need a new coat in 5 to 10 maybe sooner depending on exposure and watering habbits, etc..Most new construction installs with your requirements just turn to solid staining which wll keep the wood texture unlike paint.

[ggreenwald 14]

Thanks for the response. I checked out Olympix Maximum stains and sure enough, they claim that their solid stain product is "Guaranteed to prevent water damage and graying for a minimum of 8 years on decks and 20 years on fences and siding." That seems like quite a claim! Not sure I'm buying it for a deck, but if it worked even for 8-10 years on my pergola then that would be exactly what I'm looking for. I wonder... Would the battens on the top of the pergola really fall into more of the deck category since they are flat and laid horizontally?

Does anyone have any experience with the Olympic Max product? How does it perform and how easy is it to appy? Is there something better on the market to consider?

I found your comments about the pressure treated pine very interesting. I'd always thought that treated pine was much stronger and stable than cedar. Wouldn't that mean that 99% of decks are built on a structure made of junk? I figured that option was always available to me if I wanted the easy way out. Now I'm not so sure...

Grey

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Thanks for the response. I checked out Olympix Maximum stains and sure enough, they claim that their solid stain product is "Guaranteed to prevent water damage and graying for a minimum of 8 years on decks and 20 years on fences and siding." That seems like quite a claim! Not sure I'm buying it for a deck, but if it worked even for 8-10 years on my pergola then that would be exactly what I'm looking for. I wonder... Would the battens on the top of the pergola really fall into more of the deck category since they are flat and laid horizontally?

Does anyone have any experience with the Olympic Max product? How does it perform and how easy is it to appy? Is there something better on the market to consider?

I found your comments about the pressure treated pine very interesting. I'd always thought that treated pine was much stronger and stable than cedar. Wouldn't that mean that 99% of decks are built on a structure made of junk? I figured that option was always available to me if I wanted the easy way out. Now I'm not so sure...

Grey

On the pressure treated.. no it just means that at least some methods and results of pressure treating I seen leave the wood not as strong as it once was. When pressure treated is used or advised for use in a structure it more often than not is on the parts that are close to where the insect/rot may occur namely near ground level. This also happens to be where there is less exposure though to direct sun and constant heavy expansion...like say under a deck. It doesn't go through as quik a wet to dry/cold to hot cycles that can cause all the warping and damage and it is of course resistant to the insect damage hence it makes for good use on decks. Stick it in a verticle situation of say a pergola or for fence posts without protecting it and watch it fall apart or blow down is my feeling. We had hundreds and hundreds of fences blow down here recently and plenty were pressure treated posts. PT is no cure all IMO.

On the Omax.. I use Omax, is durable good looking stuff. Can't say it is easy as I know not yer abilities but I find it easy with the right equipment. With a pump up sprayer and soap and water I would have to call it a nightmare..

The horizontals don't really fall into a deck catagory as the speak of horizonatl deck surfaces relates to foot traffic use and it's degradation effects.

Here is some pics for your consideration of omax redwood:

..home owner didn't find it easy so he brought me in. You'll be hating life if you hand brush a 20x20 pergola..

[James 624]

Make it out of red wood or alaskan cedar and let it turn grey naturally. you will get 25 years with periodic cleaning.

[ggreenwald 14]

I assume Alaskan Cedar isn't the same as the cedar that I can normally get from a lumber yard? As for redwood, for some reason I never see it here in MN but saw it all the time in CO. I'll ask around and see if I can find anyone that can get either in the sizes I need.

Suppose I wanted to accelerate the graying process, or at least the gray appearance. Could I stain with a semi transparent or tinted stain to a gray right from the get go? Then I could avoid the inconsistent graying process (and the complaints from my wife). Any thoughts?

Back to the Olympic Max, if I do go with regular cedar, I'm interested in something with a long life, but I want something that is easy to apply. That's why I'm interested in Readyseal or WoodTux. Both seem to be forgiving to early rain, heavy applications without filming, not showing runs, etc. Trying to find a day last summer in which there was no chance for rain but with no sun was next to impossible. I'm considering stripping the Sikkens SRD that I put on my deck last year and applying one of those others this year or next.

Thanks again everyone.

[James 624]

Grow some vines and forgetabout it. Pergola's are terrible to take care of. Build the top like a puzzle so you can remove it at sum point. Also u can put strips of copper at the very top .

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Letting modern day fast grown redwood go naturally would be a mistake. It will look like total crap and all dirty gray even if it doesn't show any damage characteristics. Just doesn't have the rich extractives as an old heartwood deck or bench, etc. where ya see it turn a rich black and good to go for 50 year. Can put my hand right through a fence or lattice board of the newer stuff after just a few year. Heck in fact I've seen people step right through a 2x6 deck plank on 20 year old deck where the initial protection scheme went by the wayside.

Don't know anything about the Alaskan Cedar.

Rs is easiest but I can't see it giving you long term protection like you want.Woodrich would be easier option than woodtux. But IMHO none will come close in durability to the Omax option...Most are not likely to suggest you trying to get away with using a pumpup on a pergola with any of these stains so I suggest you rent an airless for a day.

ps- James.. it's all relative.. could say same for a wooden deck or a wooden house..you gonna suggest people grow vines all over their deck or house and forget about it? Be serious here. This guy has a specific aesthetic look and long term goal/result. He wants a mercedes and it sounds like yer pushing a yugo and trying to make it sound like a ceramic engined postal truck that isn't even in production yet.

[RPetry 564]

Ggreenwald,

If your budget allows the material expense, build your new pergola with ipe'. No initial staining needed. In a few years the wood will grey to a silver patina. No maintenance needed.

If constructed correctly the pergola will certainly outlast your deck and possibly your lifetime.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ggreenwald,

If your budget allows the material expense, build your new pergola with ipe'. No initial staining needed. In a few years the wood will grey to a silver patina. No maintenance needed.

If constructed correctly the pergola will certainly outlast your deck and possibly your lifetime.

Ipe pergolas ROCK. I agree with Rick. If you can afford that lumber, I would do it.

Beth

[big mike 14]

The most cost effective build would be PTP stained with two coats of solid stain a year later. Grow your vines, and forget about it. I do a lot of decks, etc up here, and cedar anything is a high maintenance affair. Pergolas are tough for pro's to do, so yearly maintenance of a cedar structure like that would be a major pain / expense for a homeowner.

Now that isn't advice i like to give, since I'd love to do the staining and maintenance for you. Solid stain lasts the longest in our particular climate. My own deck has a 15 x 22 pergola, and its Deckscapes Solid Acrylic. Has lasted on pergola for 4 yrs, and could use a recoat this spring. I'm sure that folks on the board will say that recommending a solid is blasphemy, but my own deck is proof to me.

I'm local for any questions via phone.

[Celeste 341]

What about building the top from ..... (ack, choke, cough) composite.....You can do the posts from a beautiful wood.

Celeste

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ewwwwwww!!!!! You said the C word!

Beth

[ggreenwald 14]

I've considered composite, but in addition to the posts I'd need to do the beams and joists with something stonger. I thought of wrapping some components in composite, but that gets really expensive.

Big Mike - nice to see someone local from my area chime in. I appreciate it! I must say, I don't think your option sounds that bad. I think I could handle a cleaning and recoat every four years, plus I'll save on the material cost. I've never been a fan of PTP, but it may be how I need to go. If I did go cedar, can you recommend a stain based on what you've seen up here? Kevin was recommending Olympic Maximum earlier, and it claims 8-20 years protection. I've got Sikkens SRD on my deck now - we'll see how it looks after its first MN winter.

Back to the pergola, I'm starting to consider a new approach. Let me know what you guys think about this. Instead of going with my original design plan and the fairly dense 2x6 battens on top, I could forgo the battens all together (except a few for structural support) and then build a custom cover from shade cloth. If I did it this way, no need for the vines and I could remove the shade cloth for staining and in the winter. I'm trying to imagine it, and I'm not sure if it would look half bad. My only concern here is the view looking down on the thing from my main floor living room. The nice thing is I could build it from cedar (or maybe Ipe? No idea how expensive that stuff is) and it wouldn't be too difficult to restain because I'd lose about half of the surface area. Am I crazy or could this be a good way to go?

Thanks again everyone for the advice and thanks Beth for the great forum!

Grey

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Shade Cloth is wonderful. We did a deck last year that was Ipe and it had a pergola with cloth draped over it. Very elegant while looking over the pool and rolling landscape in the expansive yard!

Beth

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Mike, Solid aint blasphemy it is just a reality. My area probably has more pergola commercially then some areas have decks and solid is about the only thing used on them. Such installs can go no other route as no how no way would large complexes buy into a staining maintenance program.

Celeste, Bite yer tounge..hehe :)

[Celeste 341]

Bitten :) Note, I did the obligatory coughing & yacking before I used the word!!

[rotech 14]

Ggreenwald,

If your budget allows the material expense, build your new pergola with ipe'. No initial staining needed. In a few years the wood will grey to a silver patina. No maintenance needed.

If constructed correctly the pergola will certainly outlast your deck and possibly your lifetime.

I agree. We also use that on our fences and it works well.

Edited August 21, 2011 by rotech