Whatrs it gonna take? Ughhhhh

[fireandrain 39]

Im laughing because just last week I was bragging that I havent seen acyrilic out here in years. I knew it! SHould have knocked on wood... Was called out to a deck yesterday, looks like an acrylic. The HO said he had been having a huy come out EVERY year to "maintain', and re-coat this deck... Huh? Apparantly, he never stripped between apps of this finish.

The deck is unique in that the floorboards are built from 1x2 redwood. Looks more like an interior hardwood floor froma distance.

Anyways, Im needing to build a quote for this HO, and am nervous about the labor thats going to be involved in stripping this nasy stuff! Hopefully these pics will help with a dignosis... That'll teach me never to say never!

Edited June 15, 2008 by fireandrain

[fireandrain 39]

...working on the pics...just a minute~

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Ya forgot pics..here I'll substitute one for ya..lol:

(edit- nevermind..pics to large and intrusive.)

Been seeing same thing with high end customers being way too loyal to their high end painters. Eventually the painters have to concede that doing decks is not at all same as painting houses. This last one pictured took two strips and I have no idea exactly what the painter had put on it. Maybe conversion varnish for all I know. He found me and recommended me to the HO which I guess I should be thankful for.

Edited June 15, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Oh that is gonna be tough Matt!!..

[bigchaz 157]

Dang dude theres some serious buildup on there. On the plus side you are doing horizontal so you can utilize a scrub brush on a pole and a much heavier dwell time than would work for verticals. Just keep putting on the stripper and keep it wet. Agitate with the brush every 15 minutes before wetting again with more stripper.

You may be lucky and not need the scrub brush, but do a test to see how well it comes off from chemical alone

[MMI Enterprises 289]

That kinda shine don't kick over easy whether ya dwell it or not. I'd rather hit it strong from get go to get through it...Acrylic luvs to go back to a solid as it dries.

[fireandrain 39]

Yeah, I figured I'm in for a real hum dinger with this one! The HO told me that when they bought the house, the decking was just weather a gray.... Wish he had called me over then! When I asked the Ho whether or not the guy he had returning every year for maintenance did any stripping, he said, " Well, not sure, the guy told me that he was doing some sort of acid wash before re-coating..." Pretty sad, this homeowner is a super nice guy, just had no idea what to be demanding from his deck guy.

I advised the HO that he should never allow this guy back on his property... Previous deck guy actually left all kinds of stain over spray on the side of the house, edges of surrounding concrete,etc... Absolutely ridiculous! And, he wasn't going the guy much of deal with respect to price for this crappy work... If I find this guy I'm apt to zip tie him to the handrails and call the authorities! Man.....

Anyways, as Charlie pointed out, good thing Im not going to be dealing with any verts on this job. The wood caps on the steel handrail framing I might just sand those, figuring that I'm going to get a fair amount of furring anyways... Id like to be able to isolate my heavy stripping to the floorboards...lots of plants around, like to limit the NAOH travel.

Anyone ever just hit a deck like this with a floor sander instead? I dont do much sanding, but since the floorboards are the only surface needing attention...

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Problems with hitting with sander first... Nails and screws need sunk, you'll go through tons of paper, and no stripping or cleaning is acheive between boards.

[fireandrain 39]

Thanks for those words of encouragement Kevin... This guy seems pretty sold on me doing the job for him, although he hasnt seen my price yet...

[fireandrain 39]

Problems with hitting with sander first... Nails and screws need sunk, you'll go through tons of paper, and no stripping or cleaning is acheive between boards.

The nails/screws are already sunk on this one.. thats why I was considering... Also, floor boards are 1x2, very little space between boards

(when asked, HO said he hasnt seen any puddling in winter...) Guess my point is that, with little to no visibility of the sides of these floor boards, and the screws/nails already sunk, would it be a more cost effective approach to just sand this one down instead of engage in heavy stripping/furring.... Just trying to find a way to save this HO some money, and perhaps, me, some serious aggravation...

[PressurePros 249]

Go to www.theprosealerstore.com

• Order one tub HD-80 and 2-3 gallons of Power Solve Injectable stripper, and some Citrallic or your preferred oxalic acid brightener.

• Mix HD-80 at 8 oz per gallon and apply direct.

• Downstream a layer of of the Powersolve overtop. Rewet periodically with the downstream mix so that total dwell is 20 minutes.

• Do test with 800 psi to see if it comes off easily. If not, wait another ten minutes.

• Neutralize with 10 oz oxallic (with surfactant) per gallon downstreamed.

Factor defurring as redwood is soft. Its sometime better to wait a couple of wet/dry cycles for the furries to looosen up. I like to wait 7-10 days.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Go to www.theprosealerstore.com

• Order one tub HD-80 and 2-3 gallons of Power Solve Injectable stripper, and some Citrallic or your preferred oxalic acid brightener.

• Mix HD-80 at 8 oz per gallon and apply direct.

• Downstream a layer of of the Powersolve overtop. Rewet periodically with the downstream mix so that total dwell is 20 minutes.

• Do test with 800 psi to see if it comes off easily. If not, wait another ten minutes.

• Neutralize with 10 oz oxallic (with surfactant) per gallon downstreamed.

Factor defurring as redwood is soft. Its sometime better to wait a couple of wet/dry cycles for the furries to looosen up. I like to wait 7-10 days.

Thanks for sharing! :)

Beth

[Adrian 155]

Hey Matt,

all good points from everyone's input. I would have a concern though about the metal supports holding up the hand rails. The NAOH may take the finish off of them ( unless of course you sand). I would also ad the cost of repainting the metal into the bid as well. If not it could chew into your profits. That's going to be a tough strip to begin with and you don't want your efforts to be in vain.

[Adrian 155]

• Neutralize with 10 oz oxallic (with surfactant) per gallon downstreamed.

Hey Ken,

If you don't mind, what sufactants do you ad to your oxallic ?

I have had good success spraying it straight. Just curious.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Only way I would touch it with sanding would be with drum sander and then if ya have cupping at all you'll have to attack it really good with proper cross hatch methods as used on interior wood flooring. Call it $4+ a foot in such case.

I'd stick with masking things off real well with plastic and poly tape before wash/stripping methods.

[fireandrain 39]

Go to www.theprosealerstore.com

• Order one tub HD-80 and 2-3 gallons of Power Solve Injectable stripper, and some Citrallic or your preferred oxalic acid brightener.

• Mix HD-80 at 8 oz per gallon and apply direct.

• Downstream a layer of of the Powersolve overtop. Rewet periodically with the downstream mix so that total dwell is 20 minutes.

• Do test with 800 psi to see if it comes off easily. If not, wait another ten minutes.

• Neutralize with 10 oz oxallic (with surfactant) per gallon downstreamed.

Factor defurring as redwood is soft. Its sometime better to wait a couple of wet/dry cycles for the furries to looosen up. I like to wait 7-10 days.

Thanks Ken. As always.

[fireandrain 39]

Did a bit of research on the last guy to work this deck... He tends to use eco-friendly sealers... this one might possibly be that timber tech / timber pro stuff.... Was a nightmare on a job 2 yrs. ago. LIke Ive said before, I see so few of these acrylics, really need to put together a tester kit! Feel like I'm always scratching my head when building a proposal for these buggers! Any tips on putting together a tester kit? Chem resistant bottle w/ 8oz/gal ratio HD80 or F-18? Is it generally acceptable to perform this kind of test on a deck that hasnt been inked into contract yet?

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

We have 4, 6, 8, and 12 oz./gal. of NaOH strippers in spray bottles, as well as small containers of BTN BFSII and RemoveAll 310 specialty strippers in the truck. Also carry a spray bottle of citric acid.

Is it generally acceptable to perform this kind of test on a deck that hasnt been inked into contract yet?

With the owners permission, a definite YES. Nothing like it to close a job.

An old timer, now in the distribution business, gave me a tip on sales years ago. When quoting a deck job, he would do a huge test strip on the most noticeable part of the deck. Owners were reminded daily of how good their wood could look, with this glaring anomaly both a reminder and making the rest of their wood look like a eyesore.

Very effective closing technique.

[fireandrain 39]

Thanks Rick. Seems like it would be quite a closing technique... Do you just allow an hour for this sort of testing? At a different time than the original meet-up?

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

Do it in front of the customer when going on the initial estimate. Eyes literally light up when a nasty, dirty stain cleans up to great looking real wood. Use a nylon scrub brush to agitate the NaOH (for you, simulating a PW) and throw a small bucket of water on it when ready. Follow up with an acid.

Ask your customer to look at the wood the next day. Works wonders.

[fireandrain 39]

Hey thanks Rick. I'll be building my strip tester kit this weekend! (I'll try not to get those bottles mixed up with my misters for the BBQ!)

[bigchaz 157]

Rick what kind of spray bottles do you use? Ive tried all kinds and they always end up cracking or drying out from the stripper. Then the trigger doesn't work anymore. Or the pressure build up in the sun will make the cap crack

[MMI Enterprises 289]

And note the 12oz level as yer gonna need it.. :)

[RPetry 564]

Rick what kind of spray bottles do you use? Ive tried all kinds and they always end up cracking or drying out from the stripper. Then the trigger doesn't work anymore. Or the pressure build up in the sun will make the cap crack

Charlie,

As far as I can remember, bought them at Lowes or Home Depot 3 or 4 yrs. ago. Half the time the sprayer does not work, so you just remove the cap and splash the test stripper/acid on the wood.

But it is weird. Sometimes after a few months, the sprayer will start working again.

Kevin,

Actually, I think I have a 24 oz/gal. test stripper mix in the kit. Thank heavens have not had to use that in a while.

[fireandrain 39]

Update on this project.. Cause' Im sure your all DYING to know! I bid the project just under $4K and am in contract to begin in mid July while the HO's are on vacation in Europe. I may have lost my mind here, but Im actually really looking forward to the challange on this one. As I've said before, I don't see many acrylics in my market. I'll admit that I was feeling pretty hesitant about taking this one on at first. After reviewing all of the expert input on this thread, as well as MANY others in past threads, I really feel like I need to take this one on in order to improve my confidence w/ acrylics. I'm hoping I built enough margin in this to make this a paid education rather than just...an education. We'll see.

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

You are one very brave woodie. Multiple coatings of acrylic can be a true nightmare to remove. Did you test with any strippers?

A couple of specialty strippers may help on the job. Back to Natures BFSII works very well on multi-layered acrylic stains. We have used it with good results in the past. Others have reported that a product called RemoveAll 310 is also effective.

Be sure to load up on sandpaper. We order very durable, high quality sandpapers from : Klingspor's Woodworking Shop,klingspor's,Klingspor's,woodworking,supplies,tools,proxxon,disc,sanding sleeves,sandpaper,belts

Best of luck. Hope the tuition is not too high!