Same Old Story

[CCHSNC 14]

I need to start off by saying what you charge is your own business….But when it starts to affect my bottom line I feel I have a right to get wound up. So excuse me if this is an unfriendly post.

I have been in the PW biz since 1999 and yes like most I started out part time. I know for a fact that most people’s taxes, insurance (workman’s comp., liability and health), fuel, maintenance, chemicals, equipment, food bill, electric, cell & office phone and a slew more all went up in cost since 1999.

So here comes my statement: Why in the Heck are there companies in my area Raleigh, Clayton, Apex, Cary, Garner, Fuquay, Cleveland, Holly Springs NC)

Charging

$125.00 (1800sqft and up)

$135.00 (Up to 3000 sqft)

$150.00 (2200 sqft & up)

for a House Wash? I mean come on I know income & real estate rates vary but lets get real guys your KILLING the industry! I don’t see why a minimum amount for a 2 story HW should be less than $175.00. I know a lot of these companies are part time and don’t do anything other than the siding for those prices but lets wake up if you ever want to do this full time you need to run it like a full time business. If your in the same area as me and agree or disagree post a reply.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Let's all be nice...

Some of the posts might be interpreted as trying to start something.

Beth

[CCHSNC 14]

PSI Phil:

If your company does a job (house wash 2000sqft) and it pays $85.00 (your e.g.) and it took 3 men 45 min. to do the job. That's 2 hrs and 25 min. to do the job. You pay your men $10.00 per hr plus insurance and taxes will make it aroung $16.00 your expense that makes your cost $36.00, then you need to add fuel, chems, equipment, overhead & misc.. Your company might be making $30.00 for that job.

So now lets take the price oneness would charge for that same house (house wash 2000sqft).

$150.00 1 man 2 hrs and he pays himself $30.00 per hr. The cost will be $60.00 plus chems., insurance and all the other good stuff. That leaves $70.00 +/- for the company. Need I go further??

Ooh yeah your 3 men take longer that oneness!

[Mike Williamson 198]

Rob:

He's saying a full housewash, roof wash, and flatwork take 45 minutes. I just can't see it, but hey, I certainly don't know it all.

Beth:

Sorry if my post is in that category, please email me if there's anything I need to edit...I responded very early this morning after getting some disappointing news, so I wasn't in the best of moods (no, nothing major, just someone cancelling a trip for the day with us). At any rate, I don't want to start anything with anyone, at least not right now....earlier was a different story... :)

Cannon:

Email me at oneness@gator.net

[PSI Phil 12]

Oneness is right, $85, for the house, 150 for the roof, 65 for drive and sidewalks, now redo your math, and yes it can be done.

Earlier post I made stated that nothing said was meant to demean or degrade anyone here, so scroll up and re-read it, then get over yourself.

Let me try to make you understand, Today I took my wifes suv to the car wash, I used to wash it myself and clean it out, all that crap, would take about 3 to 4 hours to do this, I now get this done in 20 minutes. That is what the car wash is for, they provide the same service at a fraction of the time vs me doing it, and getting the same results. So, that makes me a happy customer, I now have more time for other things. This is what we do, we incorporate lots of different things and ideas from different companies to dramatically improve service and time on each job. And you can too, by simply examining your operation and streamlining it, figure out what eats your time up, and eliminate it. There is always a better way.

My only real beef on this whole thing are comments on the "lowballer". How do you know that they did in fact lowball a bid? I lost a 10k bid last month over 3 dollars, sure I was pissed, but that doesnt make him a lowballer, he was just 3$ cheaper than me, nothing more. And I'm sure they do just as good work as us, if not, then we'll get the bid next year.

Just because someone can do the job faster and cheaper, it just might not make them a "lowballer" that does "sub-par" work, maybe, just maybe, they think out of the preverbial "box" and know a little more than you.

Regards,

Jerkoff Keyboard Cowboy

[Aplus 525]

I don't worry about a difference of 30 minutes or so washing a house. Here's why....As much as I'd like to truthfully say I can always wash a 2000 s/f house in two hours, it doesn't happen that way.Environmental conditions play a huge role in worker productivity. I contend that workers are faster and more efficient in the morning when they are fresh and temps are moderate. But by the third or fourth job of the day, conditions such as high heat and humidity take their toll, fatigue sets in, speed & efficiency falls off. It's a fact of human nature.

When I go to a jobsite, I work steadily and efficiently, but I don't watch the clock. The job takes whatever time it takes to do the job right. I don't micro time manage every job, some go well, and I make more $$, and some take more time. Nothings perfect, it's the nature of the business. The main idea is to become more accurate, and reduce mistakes when pricing jobs. Spot potential trouble spots, and price accordingly. That happens by experience.

I'm more interested at daily rate totals, and weekly totals. Looking at individual job costs and profits doesn't really reflect a true picture of overall standing.

[Guest rfitz]

Sorry PSI Phil, you are sadly mistaken, After the 2-3 low ballers showed up and gave their bid say for a deck job, I come along, with 4 color 2 sided brochure. 4 color 2 sided biz cards, nice uniform, nice clean Truck, professional estimate sheet, website they can visit, etc.. etc.. and I m always 1.5 or 2 times their price, and I land approx. 60-70% of my bids, Reason.?

TRUST, Professionalism, salesmanship, My minimum for a house is $250 and decks $500, You arent selling your service, you are selling you.... Dont ever forget that... I never buy anything that is the cheapest, service parts, whatever, Most folks arent stupid, they realize, you get what you pay for....

[Mike Williamson 198]

Phil:

Actually, your prices aren't that much lower than mine for a typical 2000 sq ft. ranch style house. I'm actually lower for the driveway (usually), about $25.00 higher on the roof (and I understand Orlando is a tough market for roof cleaners), and about $25-50.00 more on the housewash...the difference is that you are throwing more manpower at it, and getting it done quicker.

We're both accomplishing essentially the same thing, you're just getting done faster. As I said, the vast majority of my customers aren't even home when I do the work, and I ALWAYS make it clear that they don't have to be. So if it takes me 4 hours to do the house, roof, and drive, no one is bothered by that except maybe you.

You say your comments aren't meant to degrade or demean anyone, but your comments say otherwise...Here are an example:

"and yes, I am also glad you are not in my area, but I am in YOURS, maybe you would like to come watch a professional company in action when we come to Gainsville every year to do apartment complexes in a day and a half?(that would be 7 weeks on your time frame, kinda like dog years.)"

Maybe you truly didn't intend to be offensive, I really don't know, or care. You act like you've found this new-age way of cleaning houses that makes you so damned much smarter and more progressive than most of the rest of us...and yet the only difference I can see is that you throw more manpower at it...and get it done faster. Wow, that's something none of the rest of us have ever thought of.

Of course we don't think everyone who beats us on a bid is a lowballer. You can't even determine a lowballer by price alone. A lowballer in New Jersey would probably have a hard time winning bids here because his prices are too high. I get $100.00-$150.00 for a typical housewash. I'd be a lowballer in many other areas around the country.

The guys most of us refer to lowballers are the ones who are actually doing sub-par work with no chems, usually take longer than most of us do, and charge much less than what most washers in the area are getting. They're the guys who are happy to be making $15.00/hour when they're done. Those are the ones who hurt the industry.

[Rick G 14]

Phil, As best I can tell from your website you just spray everything down with 13%. Other than that what are you doing that makes you think you have figured out something that has eluded the rest of us? Shooter tips? The X-Jet? Foamers? I could care less what you charge. I used to care about lowballers until I had a too much other stuff to worry about. Now I rarely think of them at all. I agree, your prices are in line with Palm Beach County, although I get a little more than that. If all your going to do is come here and make derogatory comments and not share whatever superior methods you think you have developed then perhaps you have miss-interpreted the spirit of this board. And if you dont feel that you have made such comments then it is you that needs to scroll up and re read. So what are your methods- set up to break down? I love to learn new things.

[PSI Phil 12]

For the love,

Don't you guys have anything better to do than bust my *****?

Perhaps most of this is my fault, I was deeply misunderstanding this industry, when I thought that everyone here and abroad thought the same way that I do, to accomplish the task in the most efficient way possible, period.

It seems that the majority of the replies here are from the "one man show" group, this is not a put-down, so do not take it that way. I too was a one man show years ago, I never even cleaned my own house, much less than an apartment complex. My first house and roof job took me all day, Why?, because of inferior methods given to me by the equipment salesman, and a friend who had done it before, but, I ignored his advice and went with my own ideas, you live and learn. I went after the big stuff, even though I had no idea on how to do it, I still wanted it, I keep all records from day one. I put in over a million dollars in bids that year, I never got a single one. Why?, because you cannot apply a house cleaning ratio to an apartment building, the math just does not work out, for them anyway.

So, finally, I won a bid to clean the breezeways for a 21 building complex, it took 2 weeks to complete, I was pissed!, so I immediately thought "there has to be a better way" so I looked and looked, and discovered it. We now do it every quarter, in 3 days.

Each of you who reads this has to think about exactly what you want to do in this business. There is a huge difference in the regions of service here, so you northern part-timers are really not even in the same league as those of us down south. It is very competetive here, so you have to adapt.

As far as the employee thing, I have 2 full time guys, thats all, I do not flood a project with 50 workers like the roofing industry here, we do believe in quality standards, and when or if you do get to the point of having employees around all the time, you will quickly learn that the game has severely changed for the worse, everyone has their hand out, especialy the government, and state of Florida, last but not least, workers comp insurance. So there is your incentive, avoid it if you can, embrace it when you cant, but accept it if all else fails.

I tried all previous options and was not at all even remotely satisfied, so I overcame those obstacles. So how?, simple, you beat them at their own game.

A few hints..

1.Know your competiters. EVERYTHING

2.Decide how far you want to go in this industry.

3.If you do decide that you want more, put on your game face.

4.Before you swing wildly, trying to knock it out of the park, perhaps you might try a bunt? You might be amazed at how far you can get with that option.

I do not try to be cryptic, and yes this is a forum....but,its not a charity.

and Mr.Rick G., no we do not use x-jets or foamers, or even simply spray chlorine on everything, we just use our heads, nothing more. If you are so interested in our time frame's, simple, less than 30 seconds each.

Peace Out

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

There are alot of very accomplished folks on this bbs, who know how long it will take to do a job in their area, given certain conditions. For example:

siding or surface type

surrounding plants and shrubs

climate and weather conditions

Also there are a variety of tools that can be used and not everyone does a job the same way. An example of this might be a basic house wash on aluminum siding, vs. oxidation removal for paint prep. These are not the same thing.

Just thought I would add my .02 worth....

Oh...one other thing, glad to see this thread is taking a more positive turn. The last thing any onf us wants is to be called lowballer. It's an insult from what I have read here and other places. It's important to remember that what the market will bear in one area it won't bear it in another area, also sales skills enter into the picture. But anyone who has come here to read, participate, learn and grow is welcome to do so, and has shown an interest bettering themselves.

Beth :groovy3:

[Mike Williamson 198]

Phil:

So basically, you're here to tell us all that you've found the magic way to clean with efficiency and speed, but of course, you're not going to share it, other than to give some cryptic (though you say you're not) advice. No, of course it isn't a charity, though apparently you see us all as the poor inefficient needy, and yourself as the one handing out the assistance.

I'm supposed to know "EVERYTHING" about my competitors? I really doubt I could get my competition to tell me everything, even if I wanted to. What do you mean by this?

Put on my game face? Huh?

If you're going to offer advice, be clear and specific. If not, just shut up. That's like telling someone that the problem with their pressure washer is that there's an adjustment that needs to be made, but not bothering to tell them how to do it.

You say you don't intend this as a put down, but you sure come across that way. You've found THE way to be faster, more efficient, and to make more money...Something you're just SURE none of the rest of us have figured out. If I take two hours to do a roofwash, that's just ridiculous.

[CCPC 26]

Mike, do you, or did you attend college in Gainsville?

[Mike Williamson 198]

CCPC:

I attended the community college here about 12 years ago.

[Rick G 14]

Phil, again you offerd nothing. Good job. Now go away. I have no time for you. There are two many boards to choose from where people like you aren't tolerated. Go waste someone elese time. I will not be back to this thread. Busting your *****. Ha! Get over yourself. Now go spash and dash your bleach you lowballer! Ha! Ha! Mr. Rick G

[CCPC 26]

Oneness,

The reason I asked was because my brother just finished school there and he has a friend named Shane that has a pressure cleaning business in Gainsville. Shane has a partner and I thought there might be a connection, but I realized, after my last post, that your ages would be about 5 years off.

If your wondering what the name of the business is I am not sure, but I could find out just for curiosity's sake. My brothers friend shane, is married with a 10 year old daughter; attends U.F. full time majoring in Electrical Enginering; works for the Navy part time, in some capacity, and runs his pressure cleaning business full time. Talk about a driven individual.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I know him...coincidentally, his wife and mine work together. He does the PW thing part time, and doesn't have a partner (except his wife). He does have a helper who he uses for larger jobs. He also does side work in a computer related field, but I'm not sure which...I beleive database development.

Here's his website: http://www.mandrellconsulting.com/pressurecleaning/index.html

[CCPC 26]

Small world.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Yep, that it is! When I read the first part of your post, I thought you might be talking about another guy I know of here named Mike Diaz who is a student at UF, and DOES have a partner. They're just getting started, assumedly doing the PW part time.