Same Old Story

[CCHSNC 14]

I need to start off by saying what you charge is your own business….But when it starts to affect my bottom line I feel I have a right to get wound up. So excuse me if this is an unfriendly post.

I have been in the PW biz since 1999 and yes like most I started out part time. I know for a fact that most people’s taxes, insurance (workman’s comp., liability and health), fuel, maintenance, chemicals, equipment, food bill, electric, cell & office phone and a slew more all went up in cost since 1999.

So here comes my statement: Why in the Heck are there companies in my area Raleigh, Clayton, Apex, Cary, Garner, Fuquay, Cleveland, Holly Springs NC)

Charging

$125.00 (1800sqft and up)

$135.00 (Up to 3000 sqft)

$150.00 (2200 sqft & up)

for a House Wash? I mean come on I know income & real estate rates vary but lets get real guys your KILLING the industry! I don’t see why a minimum amount for a 2 story HW should be less than $175.00. I know a lot of these companies are part time and don’t do anything other than the siding for those prices but lets wake up if you ever want to do this full time you need to run it like a full time business. If your in the same area as me and agree or disagree post a reply.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Rob:

Not in your area, but I agree...I'd say $150.00 is my minimum, and that's for a SMALL house, wash only. Most are between $150 and $300.00 for a wash.

A lot of these guys are in and out in a couple hours...so $125.00 isn't bad money for what they're doing. The problem is, they're not doing the same quality job, and the homeowner doesn't understand that. That's where educating them comes in...for some it will make a difference, others are interested in price only and they'll never get it.

I suppose if things were slow enough, and I needed the money bad enough, I'd wash a house for less than I do right now...maybe much less.

[CCHSNC 14]

Any takers from the Raleigh area??

[Paul B. 523]

1800 sq ft of siding is the equivalent of a 30'x60' trailer.

$125 for 1 hour of work is not out of line.

If you can wash houses in 2 hours, and give pricing over the phone

(no on-site estimates), then $150 (as much as you may not like it) is not very unreasonable. It's not also not unreasonable if using labor that is paid $10 per hour.

A specific discussion with your competition on HOW MUCH to charge is illegal. U.S. law specifically makes discussion of pricing between competitors (all or some) a federal offense. When, where, or how these discussions takes place doesn't matter. Any discussion of pricing by a group of people within the same industry is illegal in the U.S. It is called "price fixing".

More info can be found on this subject at the US DOJ - Antitrust Div.

[James 624]

I feel your pain. There are a couple of hacks in my area- they charge between 30-50 an hour- I am starting to see alot of these handyman services also offer pressure cleaning 45 an hour. It was easier 4-5 years ago. I just found out two of my biggest competitors went under because of the weather the last 2 years.

[SDI 14]

The Way to combat that is by finding out if they are licensed or not ,if not than report them to consumer affair. In fact there are talks for here in new york to place a fine on home owners who use unlicensed contractors.

Terry

SDI

[dk34 14]

Someone will always be cheaper. McDonald's doesn't sell the cheapest hamburger, but yet sells millions of them. There's always a cheaper plumber, roofer, electrician, carpenter, etc., yet the most expensive one's are still in business.

You can't control what others charge, but you can promote the value of your services. You don't expect to land every job you quote anyway.

[CCHSNC 14]

I just wanted to prove I wasn't kidding about the LOW BALLERS in my area. Heck for all Iknow this guy visits these boards. Oooops well I guess your down a sign.:whoops:

[Jon 533]

Guys I don't do houses although I thought about it after the fires we had here.

I knew a guy who did super good work cleaning houses and I used him to make money, I would bid $300 a house and he charged $30 per hour so 2 to 3 hours cost me $60 to $90 to him. The reste was pure profit to me for just billing the customer, well worth it. Hey people pay for quality work and he did that, just was cheap.

Easy money if you ask me and I would love to have lined up 3 jobs a day with him since he used his equipment and supplies, sheesh $90 bucks max pure house gives me $210 gold money.

But his old Landa blew up so he quit the business.

What I am saying is not all low ballers do bad work, just most of them.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Hey, whats my sign doing out your way??

Jon,

If that guy would have charge right, he would have been able to replace that machine rather than quit, but you knew that already.

[Jon 533]

Yup I did know that, it was old when he bought it but worked well for a few years, had he kept it up and did his oil changes etc. I bet it would still be running today.

[Cleveland Mobile 14]

I never let prices of others bother me.....if you have to rely on selling only on the cheapest price...better hire a salesman. I always try to show want...need...and affordability.....you know they wanted the service...thats why they called...you point out why they need it. And you make the service affordable by building value. not cutting price

Andy

[Guest rfitz]

I personnally use the fear method, and it works wonders for me, If I actually show up for a house wash bid, which most I dont... too much time traveling etc.. anyway I just tell them, is saving $50-$100 worth a law suit, and a chance of losing their house, 401K, IRA etc.. is worth it, because if they hire the weekend warrior, or the fly by niter, and he trips on his hose breaks his arm, falls off the ladder etc.. and does not have insurance, THE HOMEOWNER Is LIABLE for ALL MEDICAL BILLS pain suffering, loss of wages etc.. Most do not realize this, and sign with me immediately, I charge 10 cents a sq ft, plus $80 front and $80 back for gutters, it never fails, I show up to wash a house for $250 and hardly ever walk away with a check for less than $400-$500, I always upsell, I point out problems they never knew they had, and garauntee it... I dont worry about the low ballers, they dont have a chance against me when it comes to selling, either on the phone or in person, The custom web site, custom 4 color biz cards, custom 4 color 2 sided brochures, certificate of insurance, bonded, work comp etc.. Bottom line, in this biz or any other, is SELLING, you have to learn how to push peoples hot buttons, once you do that, you have it made... I also tell them, anyone can wash your house, But I will actually clean it, BIG Difference

[Henry B. 4]

If that guy is good at pressure washing I know just how to solve your low baller problem. Send him here so I can sub out jobs to him or hire him.. I would love to have some quality labor at a decent price! Good technicians are getting hard to find around here. Out of the last 5 guys I've hired I have had to run them through my own training classes and work with them for a few weeks before they were able to do jobs to my standards.. I end up firing 80% of the guys I hire because they just can't seem to learn anything. Does three weeks of hands on training with me or someone else with years of experiance sound reasonable to you all?

I'm talking basic experiance here, not in depth of stripping and all the chemicals that are out there, just this is how we do it and why.

[tony szabo 14]

IMAGE IMAGE IMAGE

SELL TO YOUR CUSTOMER THAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO THE BEST - JOB OF WASHING THEIR HOME AND YOU MAYBE THE MOST COSTLY BIDDER.

HAVE PROFESSIONALLY PRINTED BID SHEETS

HAVE A INFORMATION SHEET OF WHAT PROCDURES YOU WILL USING

(this gives they something to read after you have already told them

you steps of the process that you be applying)

GIVE THEM OR LET THEM KNOW THAT YOU ARE FULLY INSURED

NICE CLEAN GOOD LOOKING TRANSPORATION WHEN YOU GIVE BIDS

(but not in your corvette or hummer)

CLEAN AND WELL GROMMED WHEN GIVING BIDS.

IN ALL BEAT-OUT YOUR LOW BALLERS BY PROFESSIONALISM

YOU MAY NOT GET ALL THE JOBS BUT YOU WILL LEAVE GOOD INPRESSIONS WITH THOSE POSSIBLE CUSTOMERS.

[badger11 14]

Looks to me that rfitz has it down!!!!! I am an admitted newbie and if I am able to out sell my services over a well extablished company than that company does not deserve the job. A big part of selling is trust. Make the customer trust (yourself and services) you and feel comfortable having you do work on their property. No one wants a scum bag they can't trust on their property.

[PSI Phil 12]

I'm pretty amazed at you guys rates up north, you would be out of business in 2 months here with those rates. A 2 story house here we would do for around 80 to 100 max, sitting at an intersection on any given day, you will see at least 2 pressure cleaners going thru or sitting next to you.

Lets face it guys, 1 out of 10 customers give a rats ass about "high quality work" ,in this day and age its all about the money.

How many of you have city or government contracts?, I dont, why?, why not, I have the experience, the insurance, but I dont have the MWBE status that my major competitor does since he put his business in his girlfriends name, so nonetheless each year we bid, we lose out due to lowballing? their MWBE status that gets preference? You tell me.(btw, my wife is Korean)

This year I am not focusing on the quality aspect of each job, only on the customer really wants, the cheapest price, Does this make me the lowballer? DK34 in a previous post said it the best,"McDonald's doesn't sell the cheapest hamburger, but yet sells millions of them." Why? because its what people want! Plain and simple.

It amazes me at the posts here about the lowballers, when every single cleaner here searches high and low for the cheapest price on cleaning chemicals and equipment, Am I Right? So the first company you asked for a price on a pump was to high?, well why did you not buy it from them? Is their "quality of service or product not high enough for you?, or did you just go for the cheapest price you can find?!

If you expect to get every bid you put in, then you need to find a different line of business, someone will always underbid you, why? because of lack of experience, or too much experience, when they know what that customer wants and provide it.

To all of you that read this and are getting ready for bed to go to work tomorrow, sleep well, because the work you do tomorrow makes you the lowballer.....

So lets quit ranting about the lowballing B.S., after all, someone has to get the job.

[CCHSNC 14]

It's a matter of charging appropriate for what we do. I'm sorry the market is so flooded where you are. How much do other trades charge for service at a residence? By me if Sears comes out it's $75.00 before they even do anything. I had my heating system cleaned out a couple of months ago and the guy was at my house for 2 hrs and charged me $350.00. The point of this thread is to get people to think. We are the ones that make the prices not the customers!

[PSI Phil 12]

I also have a minimum of 75$, period, just to show up. Simply due to the costs of operating this year. If you do not have a charge other than an estimate, then you need to re-evaluate your costs of operating.

If this thread was started from the heating system bill you got, then you are definately in the wrong business. Its a matter of apples and oranges.

Most northern states are heated by gas. There are a incredible amount of unbelievable deaths due to gas poisoning by the heating systems there. So Im assuming that you beleive that your services are just as comparative as the "Sears guy" that spends 2 hours at your house to make sure that you and your family are safe from any problems that could occur from the heating system.

So am I safe to say that your life, much less that the life of the bouncng baby boy on your lap is worth 350$, I would imagine its worth more than any one of us could pay, even combined, if something tragic were to happen.

Your point of getting people to think is somewhat mute. People ARE the ones who make the prices, after all priorty takes preference above all, safety versus cosmetics will always win out, no matter how good the salesman.

This post is not an attempt to demean your view on your business, or any of our business's here, but the fact of the matter is, Do you get a Christmas card from your customers?, are you invited to their daughters wedding?, but most of all...do you feel as an equal to your customer when in their presence, even though your house is just as nice and large as theirs? Even when you stand there covered in dirt and mud from the waist down from cleaning the baseline of the house?

We have an absorbant amount of repeat customers, and new ones daily, but the bottom line is we have never received a simple christmas card from any of our customers, ever, no matter how much praise we get from the extremely fabulous job of cleaning their home, and I would imagine the landscaper didn't either.

Just like the heating contractor you hired, he was there to serve you, nothing more.

but we get many christmas cards from our vendors, because they know where the money is spent.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Phil:

First, getting a bid doesn't mean you're the lowest bidder. It means the customer was happy with the price, with you, with how they perceive you and your company, possibly how you presented yourself to them, how well you sold them on the job, whether you showed up on time to look at whatever it is you're washing, etc etc.

Second, I don't know about down there in Orlando, but here in Gainesville many folks I run into are primarily concerned that you're going to get their home cleaned, that you're not going to kill their plants, and that you're going to actually show up to do the work. Price is a factor, of course, but not the only factor.

Maybe some folks "lowball" the price on supplies...not all of us do. I used to think that way. I've since found the value of quality over price....I used to wash with a cheap housewash soap...It worked OK. Maybe took a bit longer, but what the hell, I was saving $50.00 on a 55 gallon drum of cleaner, right? I've since "seen the light". I've found a great soap that works great on everything I've tried it on. I've cut housewashing a typical 2000 sq ft. home from 3+ hours to 2 hours max. So, is that $50.00 worth the time I save? Absolutely.

There's also a vast difference between merchandise and service. If I buy a 2021 pump, it doesn't matter where it comes from...it will be a 2021 pump, regardless of price. An $80.00 housewash often is not the same quality as a $150.00 housewash....If I'm making good money on a job, I'll be much more likely to pay close attention to details...If I'm barely making $30.00/hour on a housewash, I just want to get soaped, rinsed, and out of there. I won't do sub-par work, so I won't bid that low. The vast majority of my customers are ecstatic with the results, and certainly don't mind paying the bill. I go out of my way to assure the home is as clean as I can get it. If a customer just wants a cheap $80 housewash at the expense of quality, they can hire someone else.

I'm glad I'm not in your area, though I know several who are and they dont' seem to have the same pricing issues you do.

[PSI Phil 12]

Mr Oneness

Your outlook on getting the bids you put in, that you so graciously chalk up to as "It means the customer was happy with the price, with you, with how they perceive you and your company, possibly how you presented yourself to them, how well you sold them on the job" you pretty much summed it up in your first sentence. Everything else you say is just chit-chat with the customer.

And yes, down here in Orlando, the folks do have concerns with plants, cover them, problem solved.

Now that you have found a product that you really like, so how much time have you spent trying to find it at a cheaper price? Thats right, that same product or equivelent thru another distributer for less money?. All auto stores sell armor all, but who has it for the cheapest? The one who buys the most and gets the best deal.

I am really glad that you did find a soap to cut down your cleaning time from an absurd 3+ hours to 2 hours(which is still absurd). I guess this is why you have to charge a obsene amout of money to do a house, otherwise you would go bellyup, so this means you are the typical one man show with no insurance liabilities for employee's.btw, we do that same average home in 45 minutes, thats everything, roof, home, all flatwork, and they all call back every year.

For the record, the $80 house will exceed your $150 career job every time, how? simple, efficiency, efficiency, efficiency, and it will never be "sub-par" according to you. So if you are making $30 an hour, then you wont mind my company coming in and demanding $125 per hour, and getting it. After all, if you were a homeowner on your only day off, do you mind waiting around for a slow ass cleaner to waste half of the day to clean a house? No, I didnt think so. I'm on the phone if the cable guy is 10 minutes late for my appointment. Why?, because we all pay for convenience these days, plain and simple. So if you think that you are doing such a incredible thorough job that will go unnoticed as soon as you pull out of the drive, you are severely naive or senile, so sit at the end of the drive and watch those people load up their jet ski's and rush to the lake for the few remaining hours left of sunlight since you wasted the whole day at their house, simply because you just have not discovered more efficient methods of cleaning with the exact same results.

and yes, I am also glad you are not in my area, but I am in YOURS, maybe you would like to come watch a professional company in action when we come to Gainsville every year to do apartment complexes in a day and a half?(that would be 7 weeks on your time frame, kinda like dog years.)

Our # is 407-760-Wash(9274) LOOK IT UP, We are members of the BBB, and have NEVER had any complaints, EVER, , take a look at our website, psipressure.com, when you can chemical clean tile roofs 70ft off the ground and NEVER damage a single plant, the you can step up to the plate and preach about your "quality of work", until then, go get your horse and buggy, then load up your pump and go to work and ignore the world that is rapidly passing you by.

PS, these days there is a thing called high-speed connection to the internet, but there are people who do still use the old dial-up method, just a thought for you...

[squirtgun 122]

Psi Phil,

I don't feel it's fair to get on a soap box and bash smaller companies.

To do the volume work you describe you would have to have several crews working at the same time/place.Anyone can see by the pics on your website,that some of these properties would have required multiple crews to do them as fast as you do.Yes the work is impressive,I don't think anyone will dispute that.

Our customer don't seem to have a problem with 1 1/2 to 2 hr house wash(2000sq ft average),no that does not include the roof or concrete.Often they are at work when services are done,so how would we have kept them from doing something else?

We don't sell plant protection,nor do we cover plants,if the time is taken to pre wet and rinse afterward there are no problems.Throw plastic over some 80 yr old ladies day lilies for 1 hr in 90 degree heat and see if you can get her foot out of your rearend because you fried them.

We have been doing a few larger houseswashes(4500 sq ft)with concrete(7000 sq ft) lately,we can do them in the 6 hr range.Not to bad for a husband and wife team.No,we don't have the extra cost of insuring employees,but we like Mike carry liability and pay for our own med/dental/life.You can't blame smaller companies because you chose to have a larger operation.I hope we are that big someday.You bet we get paid an obsene amount of money,we give the customer what they pay for and more.We are always looking for more efficent way to get the job done,and when we find something that works for us we use it.If it means we can pass some savings to our customer we do.

The soap Mike refers to is top of the line,we use several products from the same supplier.They are great chemicals and there is great customer service behind them.

Wouldn't it be easier to share some ideas on making our little companies more efficient,instead of trashing us because we are making a living doing things a little slower than your company does?

[Rick G 14]

PSI Phil- Are you angry with Mike for some reason? I have met him personally and I feel confident in saying that he meant no ill will. You seem to want to belittle those who may have smaller companies or have different techniques than yourself. I don’t understand this logic. I am very proud of the small company I have built and it grows every quarter. I see other, larger companies here locally and have exchanged post with others here on these boards that have much larger, more sophisticated equipment, larger staff, sales people etc etc.. that I admire very much. Do I look forward to the day in which I too will have the equipment to do a multi unit complex with ease and maximum profitability? Absolutely. I’m I ashamed or do I feel less because my business offers services competitive within the niche I choose to target? Absolutely not. Do I look with contempt at those I see that have less than I do? No. Come to this board and share. I look forward to looking at your web site. I’m glad that you are successful with you current venture and I wish you continued success. Perhaps you can share with us some of you techniques so we can raise the industry as a whole and get those customers back on their jet-skis! I just wanted to make you aware there is no need for attacks or criticism here. I’m sure that’s not how you meant it. Rick G

[John T 744]

Big companies, small companies, who cares?? Plenty of big companies much larger the PSI Phil have gone out of business and even more so on the smaller companies.

Either way what works best for you may not work best for others. I have what you would call a small company 2-3 employees and sometimes just myself. My business would basically fall under "Owner Operated" and some people especially Residential love this because they know that most of the times the actual owner of the business does the best work because he has the most passion for this business. Plain and simple. Also because of this I can charge higher then some of those larger companies that employ guys that are just looking to make a few bucks untill a better oppurtunity comes there way.

SO whatever works for you is great but don't knock what works for the other guys whether there bigger or smaller then you are.

Oh yea nice website.

[Mike Williamson 198]

Naw, guys, let the jerk rant. He has such a high opinion of himself, and absolutely no respect for anyone else.

Phil:

You contradict yourself...you say that the owner is ONLY concerned with price, and then you say they are worried about their plants. Sounds to me like you think you've gotten it all figured out. Glad you think so.

No, I've never searched for this same soap anywhere else cheaper...Don't plan to.

As far as coming up to Gainesville, great. There's plenty here to clean. Which complexes do you wash (answer quick, without looking any up on the internet!)?

You seem to have a lot of issues with smaller contractors. Of course I don't have employee issues or WC insurance etc. I AM a one man show...happy with that, hope to stay that way. I'm sorry you think my $150.00 housewash in two hours is absurd both in pricing and speed. You know what's great though? The people's opinions who I actually give a rat's ass (the customers, not some jerkoff keyboard cowboy) about are more than happy with the time it takes (most aren't even home when I do it, so don't know what the hell you're talking about wasting someone's day off), the price, and the quality of the work.

I didn't mean to imply that you do sub-par work, if that's how I came across. There ARE many lowballer's such as yourself who DO do sub-par work. You apparently are a lowballer who does excellent work, at least according to you.

To wash the roof, clean the house, and the flatwork in 45 minutes AND do a top-quality job is something I'd have to see to believe. HOw many guys does that take?

As I mentioned, we must have different type of folks here...I get letters all the time with my checks thanking me for doing such a good job...I get folks going out of their way to comment on how much cleaner things are than they expected. You can degrade someone trying to do a good job, and that is fine with me....Just makes you an a**hole. You can doubt what I say, and that's fine too. I really don't care if you believe me or not.

Oh, don't worry, I'm not going to bother calling...I prefer to spend my time talking to productive members of our industry, not those who think they have it all figured out and anyone who disagrees is just an amateur and is "being passed by". Sorry. Maybe one day you'll really get it all figured out. Until then, go on lowballing and hurting the industry for the rest of us.

[CannonW 14]

Hey... I don't want to get in on the arguements... I just want to know the name of the soap that you are using...