Mixing the witches brew!

[Midwesternmarylander 14]

Hello Friends,

My name is Dwight and I have a window cleaning business in Severn, MD that I offer several other services as "add on" services and pressure washing is one of them.

I have tossed many ideas and thoughts around in other forums regarding window cleaning on various levels and as my business has turned into the pressure washing realm more 'n more, I wanted to advance my knowledge and get things in order to develop a norm for my company.

I have two machines, a small one that is 2800 psi, 2.5 gpm that I use for some decks and small jobs. I have another one that is 4000 psi, 4 gpm and I use it for most of my house washing and driveways. I also have a surface cleaner that is 24 inch and is made by Steel Eagle. I also use the truck wash brushes on poles and until recently I didn't have an X-Jet and exclusively used a commercial pump sprayer to disperse my chemical by ladders in high places.

I recently bought an X-Jet and am feeling my way through using it. My main reason for coming here to use you guy's expertise is because of my chemical solution. I've used Vinyl Brite solution (house wash) for house washes and have taken in much advice in my effort to settle on an ingredient to make my own for all time. (Or at least until the next revolutionary chemical is brewed) I carry a 5 gallon bucket for the X-Jet.

So, I was recently advised by some business friends that I consider pros to use 4 part double strength bleach (12%) and 1 part simple green. (or any generic version that is cheaper) Which essentially means 80% bleach and 20% simple green derivitive. Now, I know the water blasting out of the wand and mixing into the chemical coming from the X-Jet will thus dilute the chemical with water. Does anyone know what percentage it will roughly dilute at with my 4 gpm machine and is that mixture a safe one? I wondered if I shouldn't put some water in the mix prior to the X-Jet process.

I do understand the particulars that double strength bleach should not be used on painted surfaces and the basic "do's" and "don't's" of the chems. I just want a mix that I can count on.

Thanks in Advance!

Dwight R

Jencor Services, LLC

Severn, MD 21144

(443) 883-1709

Jencor Cleaning Services

Edited July 13, 2008 by Midwesternmarylander
Add more text.

[MudDuck 20]

Order some Simple Cherry and F-13 from PressureTek. It's cheap. I mix 3gal of regular bleach to two gallons of water with about 10oz of Simple C and 4oz of F-13. If you can get the 12% where you are you only need about 2gal of it to 3 h2o. In my opinion you don't need 12% for house washes. It doesn't hurt it's just over kill and harder on the surrounding plants. Figure out which is cheaper for you 2 gal of 12% or 3 of Clorox. The 12% cost a lot more in some places and cheaper in others. The F-13 is gutter cleaner and works great on black streaks. I use it to boost the house mix. What your explaining about the mixing at the nozzle is called Down Streaming. X jet isn't a Down Streaming its X jetting. There different. I use the X jet as well. Mix your solution in the 5er with water then run it through the X jet. Just do that and you can chunk the colored proportioner's that came with the x jet that are for limiting the solution draw. Doing what your doing is making the solution too strong unless your using the proportioner's. All that doe's is make your 5er last longer between fill ups.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hello Friends,

My name is Dwight and I have a window cleaning business in Severn, MD that I offer several other services as "add on" services and pressure washing is one of them.

I have tossed many ideas and thoughts around in other forums regarding window cleaning on various levels and as my business has turned into the pressure washing realm more 'n more, I wanted to advance my knowledge and get things in order to develop a norm for my company.

I have two machines, a small one that is 2800 psi, 2.5 gpm that I use for some decks and small jobs. I have another one that is 4000 psi, 4 gpm and I use it for most of my house washing and driveways. I also have a surface cleaner that is 24 inch and is made by Steel Eagle. I also use the truck wash brushes on poles and until recently I didn't have an X-Jet and exclusively used a commercial pump sprayer to disperse my chemical by ladders in high places.

I recently bought an X-Jet and am feeling my way through using it. My main reason for coming here to use you guy's expertise is because of my chemical solution. I've used Vinyl Brite solution (house wash) for house washes and have taken in much advice in my effort to settle on an ingredient to make my own for all time. (Or at least until the next revolutionary chemical is brewed) I carry a 5 gallon bucket for the X-Jet.

So, I was recently advised by some business friends that I consider pros to use 4 part double strength bleach (12%) and 1 part simple green. (or any generic version that is cheaper) Which essentially means 80% bleach and 20% simple green derivitive. Now, I know the water blasting out of the wand and mixing into the chemical coming from the X-Jet will thus dilute the chemical with water. Does anyone know what percentage it will roughly dilute at with my 4 gpm machine and is that mixture a safe one? I wondered if I shouldn't put some water in the mix prior to the X-Jet process.

I do understand the particulars that double strength bleach should not be used on painted surfaces and the basic "do's" and "don't's" of the chems. I just want a mix that I can count on.

Thanks in Advance!

Dwight R

Jencor Services, LLC

Severn, MD 21144

(443) 883-1709

Jencor Cleaning Services

Talk to Tom at ACR Products... 610-253-8005. :)

He's in PA, not that far from you.

Beth

[rick77 14]

MudDuck, I've been using your recipe with both regular 6% and also with K-Mart 10% (pool "SHOCK" )sodium hypochlorite. I agree, the 6% works just fine for house washing and is not overly harsh on the plants.

Like you, I use the X-Jet (M5 version). I tried it without the proportioners when I first used it but the 5 gallon enclosed X-Jet pail emptys so quickly. I then started using the red proportioner and the soap lasted much longer for me (and does a great job cleaning the house).

I can do a large two story home with two 5 gallon batches as long as I have the red proportioner in the X-Jet. I see that you suggest leaving the proportioner out. Without the proportioner in the X-Jet I feel that I would be going through tons of chemicals on just one house.

So far I have had successful house cleans with 3 gallons of 6% bleach, 10 oz of Simple Cherry, 4 oz F-13, one squirt of Dawn, and two gallons of water.

On one house I cleaned I used two gallons of 10% bleach and three gallons of water with the same amounts of Simple Cherry, F-13 and Dawn.

The three gallons of 6% did just as good of a job as the two gallons of 10%.

I'm assuming that my mix is getting dilluted more so than your mix is because I'm using the red proportioner.

The houses are getting clean and the plants are staying healthy and I don't have to mix multiple 5 gallon batches. This is probably a good mix and method (with red proportioner included in X-Jet) for newbies if my recent success is any indication.

Maybe as I gain more experience I will be able to make a 5 gallon batch of chems cover more area on a house without using the proportioner. I'm guessing the mix would be stronger (without the proportioner) when it hits the house, allowing me to use less chemical and time when applying the soap.

What are your thoughts about using the red (suggested for house washing) proportioners in the X-Jet with the above mixes?

Just for the record, I clean the exterior of the gutters by brushing on (with extension pole) F-13 at an 8:1 ratio with water mixed in a 32 oz spray bottle. I spray the mix directly onto the brush then apply to the gutters from ground level. This is time consuming but the results are stunning to the homeowners.

Please give me some feedback about using the proportioner vs. not using the proportioner.

Thanks!

[Midwesternmarylander 14]

Thanks a bunch Mud Duck and Beth and Richard. I just ordered some Simple Cherry & some F-13. I'm gonna try your mix for awhile Mud duck to see how things workout that way. Over the course of this summer and into fall I plan on tossing together a variety of mixes to see what works for me.

I appreciate the input and welcome anyone else to comment.

Dwight R

Jencor Services, LLC

Severn, MD 21144

(443) 883-1709

Jencor Cleaning Services

[rick77 14]

Thanks a bunch Mud Duck and Beth and Richard. I just ordered some Simple Cherry & some F-13. I'm gonna try your mix for awhile Mud duck to see how things workout that way. Over the course of this summer and into fall I plan on tossing together a variety of mixes to see what works for me.

I appreciate the input and welcome anyone else to comment.

Dwight R

Jencor Services, LLC

Severn, MD 21144

(443) 883-1709

Jencor Cleaning Services

Hey Dwight,

I'm new here too just steadily learning the how to's, do's, and don'ts. I've learned so much in such a short time from the wonderful folks on this forum. I enjoy your input on the AUWC forum. Good to see you here.

[KeithClean 14]

I take 6%SH. Pour little out. Fill to top with Jomax and Dawn. Using X-jet and beige proportioner(1-10). I've made a "lid" from bleach jug with barb that I connect tube onto. Each new bleach bottle becomes my solution container. I can do the same with 10%SH and red proportioner(1-16) and prefer because less stopping and connecting new bottle. I move about with both hands free thanks to a strap around my shoulder and carabiner hooked to my bottle. The bleach/Jomax/Dawn is sucked out well as the bottle collapses. I sometimes use Simple Green or Purple Power instead of Jomax, cheaper, and gutters come out looking better with less effort. I'de attach a picture of my little gear but can't figure out how. Hope this helps even if a little.

Edited July 14, 2008 by KeithClean

[MudDuck 20]

Hey Rick, I've never used the proportioners. I usally do an average size house with two buckets maybe three at most. I wash from the bottom up and let dwell 5 or 10 min. Just get it wet and allow the chems to do the work. I also normally blast the gutters pretty good with the same solution, let dewll and blast again then rinse and it works with little or no scrubbing. If your doing much scrubbing with the preportioner i'd go to 6oz of F13 and another gallon of SH. I'll try using the red preportioner this week to see if it still works like I'm used too. If nothing else it will allow the bucket to last longer if you don't like mixing so much. I don't mind and usally ready for a break when the bucket goe's dry.

[rick77 14]

MudDuck, Please let us know how the results of using the red proportioner compares to not using a proportioner at all.

So you don't usually do the gutters seperate with F-13? The house wash mix (via X-Jet with proportioner) doesn't remove the black streaks well enough for me.

I don't mind brushing the F-13 on the gutters even though it does take a good bit of time and effort. When the customer sees the results its worth the extra time and effort.

Still though, I may tinker around with the mix (more F-13) to see if the gutters can be cleaned without brushing. I have concerns about too much F-13 in house wash mix damaging the house surfaces.

Thanks!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Before you start mixing things together.... http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/chemicals-safety/13216-chemical-reactivity-worksheet-download-link.html

Be CAREFUL. Some things should NOT be mixed. Always check first!

Beth

[Midwesternmarylander 14]

Anybody ever heard of a generic simple green called Breakthrough? I was advised that it is cheap and effective to mix with the bleach but cannot find where to buy it in bulk.

I'm in Maryland.

Dwight R

Jencor Services, LLC

Severn, MD 21144

(443) 883-1709

Jencor Cleaning Services

[Russ Johnson 141]

I carry BD20 in 55 gallon drum kits. It's a butyl based degreaser similar to Simple Green.

[KeithClean 14]

The active ingredient in Simple Green is 2-butox..., Purple Power from Walmart and some auto part stores has to same plus other detergents. It's much cheaper and accomplishes the same thing as Simple Green. It just doesn't smell nice like Green. Here's a web-site I've used that helps me compare products. Hope it helps. Keith Household Products Database - Health and Safety Information on Household Products

[MudDuck 20]

MudDuck, Please let us know how the results of using the red proportioner compares to not using a proportioner at all.

So you don't usually do the gutters seperate with F-13? The house wash mix (via X-Jet with proportioner) doesn't remove the black streaks well enough for me.

I don't mind brushing the F-13 on the gutters even though it does take a good bit of time and effort. When the customer sees the results its worth the extra time and effort.

Still though, I may tinker around with the mix (more F-13) to see if the gutters can be cleaned without brushing. I have concerns about too much F-13 in house wash mix damaging the house surfaces.

Thanks!

No I don't usally do the gutters seporate unless they don't come out clean. Which isn't often. I might hit a spot or two on one side but normally don't have to do too much unless they have been stopped up for awhile overflowing. Be sure to watch for this during your walk around estimate and charge for cleaning it out if you have too. I've got this little green pump up that holds like a pint or two from Lowes, was like six bucks. Ajustable nosel, I keep it on hand to mix alittle f13 if needed. Note that they don't work very well unless you put some water in it and pump it up and let it sit with pressure in it. It will leak pressure at first but keep pumping and it will start working properly. I think the seals are just dry.

Using the preportioner allows you to mix the mix more strongly and it draws less allowing the bucket to last longer between fill ups keeping the same chem strength in the flow. Thats all it doe's. Using it with base mix just makes your mix weaker. It's six one way half a dozen the other.

[CLASSICPW 14]

I don't agree with 12.5% being too strong, to me it is just concentrated sodium hyporchlorite so I just dilute it. Therefore a 5 gallon jug of pool shock just goes farther for the buck. I also use greased lightning and jet dry for a rinse agent except when i'm doing a paint prep for a contractor where I'll remove the jet dry. The only problem with paint prep is that it leaves the windows spotty. Usually the painter will clean the windows when they are done.

[MudDuck 20]

Hey Rick, concerning doing the gutters seporatly I just screwed the pooch yesturday over a deck. Somewhere here there was just a thread about it. I mixed a batch pretty hot because the gutters were not budging. While scrubbing them the drippings over the deck stained the newly redone deck. Yea...not too good....Turns out I was VERY LUCKY because he had just had his roof painted (tin roof shingles) three weeks ago and one of the painters launched a 5er of paint off the house onto the deck and they covered it with another darker enamal...Long story short it was paintable so an easy fix...Had it been stain I would be doing a free deck job. I don't know if it was just the new fresh paint or me mixing it hotter but from now on I will cover all decks or at least the drip lines before scrubbing F-13 over them. I had pre wet it and rinsed a lot and it still stained it. It turned floresent green lol...on a brown deck...Just be carful with it...

[rick77 14]

Hey Rick, concerning doing the gutters seporatly I just screwed the pooch yesturday over a deck. Somewhere here there was just a thread about it. I mixed a batch pretty hot because the gutters were not budging. While scrubbing them the drippings over the deck stained the newly redone deck. Yea...not too good....Turns out I was VERY LUCKY because he had just had his roof painted (tin roof shingles) three weeks ago and one of the painters launched a 5er of paint off the house onto the deck and they covered it with another darker enamal...Long story short it was paintable so an easy fix...Had it been stain I would be doing a free deck job. I don't know if it was just the new fresh paint or me mixing it hotter but from now on I will cover all decks or at least the drip lines before scrubbing F-13 over them. I had pre wet it and rinsed a lot and it still stained it. It turned floresent green lol...on a brown deck...Just be carful with it...

Hey MudDuck, I'm on the same page with you concerning this matter. I won't brush the F-13 on gutters without protecting any painted/stained surfaces below. I use an 8:1 ratio of water/F-13 in a spray bottle and spray it directly on the brush. I use this method in hopes of avoiding excess dripping of chemical off of the brush.

I'm actually thinking of omitting F-13 from my house wash mix because I'm finding that I have to do most all of the gutters seperate anyway. The bleach, Simple Cherry, and shot of dawn are probably all I need for the main house wash mix.

Bottom line, that F-13 is some strong stuff and can do some damage in a blink to painted surfaces. I'm realizing the importance of starting out weak and going stronger only if needed. Got to be careful with that stuff huh!

Thanks for all the great advice and input!

Edited July 18, 2008 by rick77

[rick77 14]

I might add that I'm at a stage of being very very cautious with the strength of chemicals in my house wash mix and my gutter mix. Being fairly new to this game I would rather have to go back over the surface a second time instead of doing irreversible damage on the first try with a mix that is too strong.

I'm having great success at not burning plants yet getting the house/gutters clean. On down the road when my technique is much more improved I may be able to clean safely with a stronger house wash mix that may even clean some or most gutters as I power wash the house.

I feel more comfortable cleaning them seperately with seperate chemicals at this point.

[Subseven 14]

What are ya'll using these days?

[mike movila 78]

I believe that Bob does not recommend that F 13 be used in house mix due its foaming action also certain stains on gutters will not budge through spray appication they have to be brushed manually. Extreme care should be used when using F 13 as it will stain concrete and many other surfaces.