AC vs. Woodtux

[plainpainter 217]

Seems like all the buzz has been about Armstrong Clark these days - without much resistance. Remember all the woodtux posts of yesteryears? Does anyone use woodtux anymore? It's all I have been using since I don't feel like experimenting anymore for the latest and greatest. Is anyone passionate about the stain they are using this year?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We use Wood Tux, but we are exploring other products. Too many things have changed in longevity since the VOC changes that effected the east coast for us not to try and consider other things.

Beth

p.s. I like your new avatar!! (hehehe)

[plainpainter 217]

Who's responsible for that silly avatar? I don't want to educate, motivate, and integrate! I'm more of a beavis and butthead kind of guy.

Any hopefuls, Beth? I did a deck a year ago with a California product - haven't been back to look. I have no clue what works anymore -- seems like some guys are holding onto an aging TWP formula, but where are they going to be when that one is pulled? This industry is so frustrating.

[bigchaz 157]

WoodTux/Rich on 95 percent of decks this year. Will be adding AC to the lineup next year and the mix will probably go to 50/50. Still love the look of woodtux on newer wood, but the AC will be my product of choice for rougher/drier decks

[plainpainter 217]

Charlie - what is it about AC that makes it superior to Woodtux for older drier decks?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Who's responsible for that silly avatar? I don't want to educate, motivate, and integrate! I'm more of a beavis and butthead kind of guy.

Any hopefuls, Beth? I did a deck a year ago with a California product - haven't been back to look. I have no clue what works anymore -- seems like some guys are holding onto an aging TWP formula, but where are they going to be when that one is pulled? This industry is so frustrating.

Silly avatar? ;) It was my idea to have a default avatar. Fits the forums. If you would like to have a custom one, knock yourself out.

Beth

[bigchaz 157]

I get horrendous coverage ratio with woodtux on dry wood. The ideal would be doing a coat of timberoil with topcoat of woodtux but I also would prefer not to have that 2 step staining process. So Id rather not put 350 dollars of expensive tux on a 1000 dollar deck job. AC has more penetrating oil in the formula and acts more like a timberoil on drier decks. However, theres also drying oils in the stain that stay closer to the surface and lock in the moisturizing oils and hold your color better. Sometimes with a timberoil you put the first coat down and wonder where the heck it went it soaked in so deep. You dont get that as much with the AC. Some applications still require two coats, but it sprays easily and in most cases one heavy coat seems like it will work.

Check out my other armstrong thread for the review I wrote. The stain is a bit more opaque (in the semi solid) which also helps with a more even color. On older wood with Woodtux i get a huge color shift from application to fully cured. Sometimes it goes on dark, sometimes light, and I never know for certain how its going to dry out. Not a problem with AC. What you see is what you get when it dries

Edited July 14, 2008 by bigchaz

[Scott Paul 164]

Does anyone use woodtux anymore?

Our sales with Wood Tux are up this year compared to last year. Also we haven't had any issues with performance.

[plainpainter 217]

Well this was a make or break year for Russell, I think. Perhaps he has finally made it? With no more issues on these websites. I will refrain from the AC - as I can't juggle so many different brands without losing my mind. And I just haven't had coverage issues with woodtux even on older decks. And I don't understand the different subtleties when it comes to higher percentages of parafinnic oil for re-conditioning older decks? I know Jim explained it once - but to me even a linseed oil based product that dives deep inside the wood, doesn't 'through' cure like wtw - why isn't that considered conditioning?

[James 624]

A great comparison is AC vs WooDrIch. Why? They are both have similar features drying and nondrying oils. Just like RS should be compared to Timbor oil because they are similar non drying oils.

Understanding the function of a product and how it works down the road with regards to maintenance is more important. How it breaks down from the sun and weather. Is it going to be easier or more difficult than the first time you did the job?Who has done a maintenance you can talk too? How many people have actually use a product multi times on the same deck?

I have used AC on some small projects with good results and no opinion formed yet. I do understand how I will use the product and what woods I will trial!I have many projects with a sort of WoodRich because I was blending my own before it came out. The earlier WT version was much better. It produced a harder shell and feared better with regards to weathering. The newer stuff comes off like butter but I still use it.

[Stain Shop 14]

We are in year #2 with using Armstrong Stains. The product is holding up extremely well on Homes/Decks in the field. We have sample decks at the office to demonstrate colors and cleaning procedures and although we can't speed up time(somebody's working on that right?) it strips and cleans easily as we have gone over these decks multiple times. So far we are seeing better longevity and better coverage. Having the differant finishes for differant applications is a huge benefit!

[Scott Paul 164]

We are in year #2 with using Armstrong Stains. The product is holding up extremely well on Homes/Decks in the field. We have sample decks at the office to demonstrate colors and cleaning procedures and although we can't speed up time(somebody's working on that right?) it strips and cleans easily as we have gone over these decks multiple times. So far we are seeing better longevity and better coverage. Having the differant finishes for differant applications is a huge benefit!

Steve is that better in longevity compared to Ready Seal? I do believe that is what you used prior to switching to AC.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Dan,

You might also call Tom & Barbara of ACR Products, they carry the AC line now too, and also have a product called Wood Sentry which we are trying. We are trying both of these products.

Beth

[James 624]

I have some Wood Sentry also using Monday( inventor of WT).When you compare products you have to compare like product. Apples to Apples. Comparing RS to AC is like comparing Apples to Oranges unless you add some Linseed to RS. I have fooled around with adding Linseed to RS for a while because I have issues with cedar up to 3 years old ( cedar is a pain is the **%# first application). The problem is keeping color on the surface which linseed will do by holding it there. Then the issue becomes maintenance of the surface. RS might look like crap after two years but it's still working. In conclusion AC looks like a solution for my cedar issue but adding Boiled linseed to RS does work and I'm still playing with At the lower New England Wood laboratory .

.

Edited July 15, 2008 by James

[Celeste 341]

We're still using WT but are open to AC and testing it this year as well. Also going to give the Wood Sentry a shot.

Celeste

[big mike 14]

Just curious....Is everyone giving up on Ready Seal?? I've tried dozens of different stains over the years, yet I keep coming back to RS. I remember the last two years the buzz was all about Woodtux. Now its AC. Is it just because they advertise that nice looking house in Cleaner Times? When will everyone learn that its better to stick with what works than re-inventing the wheel??? I am not willing to lose customers because of a need to "find something better", are you?

The only legit response here is Diamond Jim with the RS on new cedar. It doesn't last as long color-wise, but I let my customers know that its a continual building process. Ask yourself this: Do people really want several choices of stain? My experience says no.

[James 624]

Great example of how RS holds up. I did a complete property maint. today ,Washed house, deck, windows. This is the third time was there 3 years ago. I did the deck first and then the house. Packed up the my stuff and the washed the windows. By the time I finished the windows the deck was dry. Put my window stuff away and oiled the deck. Total time 5 hours $670.

[bigchaz 157]

Just curious....Is everyone giving up on Ready Seal?? I've tried dozens of different stains over the years, yet I keep coming back to RS. I remember the last two years the buzz was all about Woodtux. Now its AC. Is it just because they advertise that nice looking house in Cleaner Times? When will everyone learn that its better to stick with what works than re-inventing the wheel??? I am not willing to lose customers because of a need to "find something better", are you?

The only legit response here is Diamond Jim with the RS on new cedar. It doesn't last as long color-wise, but I let my customers know that its a continual building process. Ask yourself this: Do people really want several choices of stain? My experience says no.

VOCS my man

VOCs....

[Stain Shop 14]

We have used a lot of Ready Seal, Super Deck and others over the years.

[big mike 14]

VOCS my man

VOCs....

Hey Charlie, explain what you mean by that will ya?? I thought that RS changed formulation in 2006 to comply with all VOC regulations. Tell me I'm wrong.

[bigchaz 157]

O sorry mike I didnt know anything about the ready seal change. But with TWP, bakers, wolmans??, and others going under for the new regulations next year, the draw to AC for me is the consistancy with the product over 8/9 years and the hope that maybe ill be able to use the same stain for more than 2 years. IF ready seal is already the product for you I certainly would say stick with that. AC has some differances to RS so it might be worth at least checking out.

Stains are gonna change over time. I like reading how people used to put oil or tranny fluid on wood. Then there's been flood products and cabot, wolmans, olympic, etc etc. Experimenting is good for a company looking to stay ahead of things and make sure they are always offering the best of the best to customers. Its always good to have a backup plan if let's say ready seal or woodtux went out of business. Or if something changed to where you no longer get the same results

[Colorado ProWash 21]

I'm using Bakers Gray Away. I can't justify paying twice as much for Woodrich or WoodTux. Also with our high altitude it even makes WoodTux even more difficult to apply. It's also to difficult to teach the WoodTux learning curve to employees. When prices went up I ordered only a few batches before I decided that It was time to look for another product. Bakers Gray Away looks a whole lot better IMO and I will get a call back sooner for a maintenance coat it's a win win situation. I'm spending less money on products and putting more money in my pocket as well as using a stain that customers are liking the results a whole lot better.

Edited July 16, 2008 by Colorado ProWash

[fireandrain 39]

Gotta agree. I've been only been asked this by a client twice in the last 100 decks I've done. Ready Seal for me.

[Stain Shop 14]

We have used a lot of some and a little of all over the years, I say we mixed em' all together and see what happens!!!! GO COFFEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[RPetry 564]

Hey Charlie, explain what you mean by that will ya?? I thought that RS changed formulation in 2006 to comply with all VOC regulations. Tell me I'm wrong.

Mike & Charlie,

AFAIK, Ready Seal did not change their formulations in 2006. The product was already compliant prior to the new regulations.

To confirm, you may want to speak with Peirce Fitchette. It will give him something to do. Aside from taking orders over the phone, he is the loneliest national sales manager in the US.

Edited July 18, 2008 by RPetry

[bigchaz 157]

Rick I dont know anything about the solvents in ready seal but do you think there is a risk of reformulation when the 09 regulations kick in? Have you heard anything from your RS contacts