Did You Know? Tile & Grout Issues

[dlamontm98 37]

Did You Know?

Grout is a textured and porous Portland Cement, that much like concrete, welcomes stains and dirt.

95% of ceramic tile installers Do Not Seal The Grout as part of their installation process.

Without a non-porous grout sealer your investment has zero protection against household stains.

White and light colored grouts will begin to show signs of discoloration almost immediately.

Properly sealed grout will actually repel the moisture that leads to bacteria, mold and mildew growth.

Many recommended tile cleaners contain a percentage of acid, and other harsh chemicals, that can be damaging to unsealed grout.

Properly sealed grout is as easy to clean as the tile itself, and makes routine maintenance trouble-free.

Perfectly good ceramic tile installations are ripped up and replaced daily, at great expense to homeowners, due to permanently damaged unsealed grout.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Derek,

Great info. By now, I am sure you are not suprised at how many people don't know. If you don't mind, what products are you using for cleaning and sealing? I have tried many and am still searching for the miracle chemical.

[EmpirePW 14]

I am in the process of talking to the DM of a resturaunt chain in my area. I just wanted all the dumpster pads at his resturaunts but then he brought up cleaning the kitchen floors. The grout in his kitchen is very discolored because of all the grease and crap that hits the floor. i am going to ask for advice about this job and how to do it in another thread but what would be a good sealer to use if I could talk him into letting me seal his grout to help keep it clean. Also, how would you apply a sealer to grout in this situation? Any info would help.

[squirtgun 122]

Matt,

We just came in from cleaning the floor inside a McDonalds(from the front counter to the back door)180 degree hot water was all that we needed to get the floor and grout clean.They have their people stay late to help push the excess water to drains and mop.

Remember fastfood places work on a tight budget,so cleaning may be all they are willing to do.They will often do this type cleaning when they have an inspection of some sort coming up(as was the case with the one we just cleaned)if you can sell them on the grout sealing go for it.

[One Tough Pressure 580]

I have applied sealer to tile by mop, roller, and sprayer. They each work well and each have their own place. Each manufacture has their own theory as well. It is a trial and error/personal preference thing.

[EmpirePW 14]

how much pressure would I be able to use before I have to worry about blowing up the tile and grout? Also since I have only done residential and dumpster pad work I don't have a hot water maching. I know that the pressure from my cold water maching will clean the grout but I am curious if I should use my 2600 psi unit or if I should invest in one of the 1000 or 1250psi electric units so that I can run it indoors. At this point in time I don't have any sort of surface cleaner machine I just use my gun. I was looking at the store on this website and there was the steel eagle 16" floating spinner surface cleaner. Would that be a good investment for a job like this? I'm on a tight budget right now so I can't afford any of the really good surface cleaners the run in the $700 and up range, but it would probably help to expediate the job. One more thing... I know some people don't like to talk about their pricing on these boards but if anyone could private message me and let me know how much you would charge $/sq ft for a job like this I would like to know.

Matthew Krupitzer

Empire Pressure Washing

[paul-uk 500]

derek.....how do you clean and seal your grout....also what did you start out with and how did you find your first couple of jobs....this is a interesting subject and has plenty of scope for extra income.... great post derek

[squirtgun 122]

Matt,

If you are using a cold water machine with a wand inside a kitchen area,you'll be making a bigger mess than your cleaning,Hot water is a must,cold just doesn't cut through the grease film that builds up on restaurant floors.You could try a degreaser and a cold water wash,but I'm not sure it would be as effective as hot water.

We use a 16" hover type surface cleaner,it work great in the tight areas like kitchens.

Bidding will run between $.10 and $.25 a sq ft.

This is an add on service for us,so we generally $125 to $200(depending on kitchen size)

[EmpirePW 14]

I know the cold water by itself would not be enough. I have a heavy duty degreaser that I dilute 1 to 1 for resturaunt dumpster pads that works like a charm. I was going to deck brush that down to loosen everything up. That steel eagle is a 16" hovering surface cleaner so that's what I was figuring on getting for this job. I am still interested to learn what good grout sealers there are out there that you guys might recomend.

Matthew Krupitzer

Empire Pressure Washing

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We used HD-80 on a kitchen floor in a restaurant where we cleaned the hood system, and the tile grout came clean without any pressure, but just hot water and a squeegee. The manager was glad to see that it came so clean and said he would use it as a proof to his employees that the grout actually IS white!

Rod~

[One Tough Pressure 580]

The Steel Eagle Little Floater that you are speaking of is a good unit. I have the 12" one and with a 4/3000 psi cold machine, it works well.

How much pressure you can use on tile and grout depends on a few variables. I have some that I use 3000 psi on and others that are low pressure only. I always use a surface cleaner, as the wand is to messy for indoor work.

[Chappy 138]

I just did a clean and seal on a whole house, Sealed with v-seal 101. I clean with a steam cleaner. sealed using a bottle, going line by line, but I should have just poured and squeeged on.

as for cost, the v-seal is about $25/gallon after shipping and I think I used less than 1 gallon, floor was a mix of 6 and 8 inch tile. total of 900 SF.

my price wont make a difference as this was a "please come do it now, Im moving in and have to have it tomorrow" job and yours is commercial.

Good luck

[EmpirePW 14]

You use the 12" steel eagle with a 4/3000 psi cold machine and it works well but are you talking about on the grout in kitchen floors or flatwork and cement. I still need more information on this subject. Any other views and inputs would be wonderful.

The Steel Eagle Little Floater that you are speaking of is a good unit. I have the 12" one and with a 4/3000 psi cold machine, it works well.

How much pressure you can use on tile and grout depends on a few variables. I have some that I use 3000 psi on and others that are low pressure only. I always use a surface cleaner, as the wand is to messy for indoor work.

[EmpirePW 14]

I am going to test out this degreaser called HD-61 from a local supplier. It is a citrus based degreaser. Depending on the result I will be getting in touch with you for information about HD-80.

We used HD-80 on a kitchen floor in a restaurant where we cleaned the hood system, and the tile grout came clean without any pressure, but just hot water and a squeegee. The manager was glad to see that it came so clean and said he would use it as a proof to his employees that the grout actually IS white!

Rod~

[Chappy 138]

You can also use a product called Quarry Tile Cleaner, It is an acid based product that will really bring out the tough stains, need to brush it with stiff brush and then rinse. EcoLab makes it along with other manufacturers. can probably pick it up at any restaraunt supply house.

[Lou Noble 14]

Hey Jon,

Is that quarry tile product a Lithofin product?

Also guys, what is the ph of the HD-61 and the HD-80 products? I am interested.

Your chemicals should be doing all of the work in your T&G work guys, extractors are just tools to suck up the water faster than a wet vac...

Lou

[bforbis 14]

EmpirePW,

I have and am doing a good bit of interior cleaning tile in restaurant kitchens and service areas. Hot water is a diffinte plus, and I really would not want to tackle the grease on kitchen floors without it. Otherwise, you just spread it around and really not cleaning. That is where the hot water really makes a difference, but I understand if you don't have it and on a budget.

I use a strong Sodium Hydroxide based degreaser and have used the HD80, b oth work great.

I inspect the floor looking for soft, low and non existing grout areas in the grout.

These areas can be removed back to sound installation and replaced after cleaning.

Depending on time factor, I will use a rapid set motar thin set or a polymer modified water proof adhesive/sealer I get from our tile supplier. Prep is essential to a succesful job. I replaced some about two years ago in a restaurant and all my work stayed and everything around it has begun to pull up. We will be reworking the total kitchen area in a couple months.

I have cleaned with almost direct 15 degree tip at 3000 psi and not hurt anything, but I don't recommend that. I typically need no more than about 500 psi, and use the widest setting on my XJ.

I use a heavy duty wet vac, a typical shop vac will work, but will take time to have someone dump out and continue cleaning.

.

Follow up by mopping (WITH A CLEAN MOP HEAD) any areas that trailed or to touch up. Wipe down seats or any areas that splashed.

I can do a good sized restaurant 2500 sf myself, although one or two people would be a big help, in about 3 to 5 hours start to finish, depending on how many chairs etc has to be moved, how well the drains work and layout.

Be sure to check that the drains do actually work.

I think Craig or some others actually have a vac system attached to their surface cleaner, which really makes it nice.

[rservices 14]

I do tile replacement in restaurants all of the time. the biggest problem with sealing is you have to allow the grout to completly dry before applying. we only had one restaurant I've worked in was actualy closed for a few days(front remodel)

most cases the problem areas are on the cooks line, and with even one day the grease build up makes the sealing imposible.

the chemicals they use on the floor are very good, but they most likely wont let you use them, they would come out of their stores operating expense's which their boss and everyone in there company watch's (store contolables)

[Lou Noble 14]

What chemicals are you using that you have to wait till the grout is completely dry... im waiting till they are dry to the touch to apply and having no problem what so ever.

[steve r 14]

I am going to test out this degreaser called HD-61 from a local supplier. It is a citrus based degreaser. Depending on the result I will be getting in touch with you for information about HD-80.

What is hd61 ? i use hd-80 daily .and hd works the best for what i do.