My First "challanging" Client of the Year!!! Aye Yaye Yaye!

[fireandrain 39]

WARNING: Big Time Venting Here!

The customer that refused to listen, and refused to be satisfied...

So I provided a client with a bid late last season for a pretty straight-forward strip,brighten,seal job on a couple of small,ground level redwood decks. No verts, floor boards only. The deck a very faded finish, some sort of semi-trans, perhaps Cabot...Most of the deck,however, was just faded,gray, well trampled floor boards. Homeowner, late 30's professional woman called me over last year for me to have a look at the job. She didn't spend too much time with me out on the deck, I think she had a GC visiting for another unrelated project. As I recall, she spent more time watching her children play in the backyard than paying attention to my commentary on the condition of her deck. She seemed preoccupied with other things, just sort of said she needed it "cleaned up" and re-stained, "nothing fancy" were her words....

So... I write up an itemized quote that lists EXACTLY what procedures we would follow, each followed by a price. (Incidentally, I no longer provide on the spot proposals, work them up in the office while checking my notes on the project and reviewing digital pictures taken day of first mtg. with prospective client.) My price is competitive and I provide her with one of my brochures that describes in plain English each of the steps we proposed taking with her deck.

Fast forward to 3 weeks ago. Client leaves me a voice mail indicating that she would like to get me over to do her deck the following week while she and her family are away on vacation. She was polite about, realized that it was short notice and all. I called her back the following day and let her know that we were real busy (It was right around the 4th of July) but that I would make a special trip out to get her taken care of while she was away. I informed her that we had a 10% price increase over last year (which amounted to an extra $75) and that I would like her to email me some current photos of her deck. She sent photos the following day and emailed that, “We just want a natural finish - no real color” I emailed her back informing her of the need to have “some” pigmentation in the finish in order get UV protection. Starting to sound fuzzy? Welcome to my world with this one! She never emailed back, just to say that she would leave the gate unlocked for me while they were on vacation. It was such a short notice project for me and I trusted these clients, so I didn’t rush off a contract or request a deposit. I just emailed her to leave a check for 50% before she left and that we would settle up when she returned.

So, I finish the project July 5th. Deck turned out as good as could be expected..Surface of was deck pretty beat up, lots of nail bleed, broken knots,etc, it really needing to be re-surfaced but was not enthusiastic about spending the money for that, and again, at the original meeting with her last year, she really didn’t pay attention to anything I was saying… She said she wanted to clean up and re seal the deck. Preserve it.

Throughout the project I emailed the client, giving detailed descriptions of what we were doing,etc… No responses from her. One that said to call her on her cell. I did. No call back. Basically the lady just kinda blew me off while she was away on vacation.

So she returns from vacation. No calls. No emails. I call her, get her cell voice mail, multiple times. I leave messages, politely requesting payment for services rendered. Nothing. I email her numerous times. Nothing. I ask to leave check in envelop on front porch, that I would swing by yesterday to pick up. Let her know that if she has any questions or concerns, to please call me.I drive out there to pick up check yesterday. No check left for me. No calls. Nothing. Mind you, these are affluent professional clients in a neighborhood with a median home price of $1.2 million.

I finally get an email this morning from her requesting that I stop by between 3-6 to “discuss the deck and payment”. It’s my day off, but I want this thing resolved ASAP.

I phone her and email her, let her know that I’ll be by @ 3PM. I drive an hour round trip to her house half wondering if she would even be there to meet me.

She lets me in, we walk out to the deck and she unloads on me about how disappointed she is with how her deck turned out. Didn’t like the stain. RS-Med Red. Thought it looked too red, too orange… (ya’ mean like REDWOOD?) She said that she was hoping it would be “more brown”…. Oh, like her original email which indicated she wanted a………………”clear/natural” finish. She appeared to listen to all of the information that I was supplying her with (same stuff I told her last year), but keeps returning to blanket statements about how she sort of assumed we would be sanding her entire deck down and that it would look, in her words, “like a new deck”.

I felt completely and utterly cornered. I NEVER get into this sort of situation. So, Im thinking, 1in300, not bad,right? Didn’t seem to make me feel any better. I don’t like to leave a new client unhappy, EVER! If I suspect that Im dealing with an reasonable type of homeowner, I just don’t do business with them. I’m pretty good about that. Like I said, this is a first for me. I was almost inclined to offer to re-stain the deck free of charge, but this woman’s attitude was so poor, so accusatory, and mis-guided that I decided while we were talking that I would not budge. I gave her a quote, specified IN DETAIL which treatments her deck would be getting and the associated costs. I bent over backwards to get her on my calendar during the time frame that she requested, sent half a dozen elaborately detailed emails updating her while she was away, and was forward about the type/color of stain we would be using (documented in emails). I guess she just got back from vacation, didn’t like how the deck looked and just decided she would wait to discuss/pay until she was ready…2 weeks later. And, this woman is a successful local attorney.

Jeez, longest thread in history of TGS! Long story short, I told her that I would order some samples from ReadySeal and re-coat her deck with a darker color at a discounted price. I also encouraged her to be available to sign off on color before I did the whole deck. I also told her that I would be happy to put together a price on re-surfacing her deck and re-staining and that I would take into consideration the “disappointment” factor when pricing this work. She wasn’t happy. I could say ANYTHING to change her mind, she just felt ripped off and mislead. She cut me check and escorted me out of her house rather disrespectfully. Really made me feel like ****.

Did I do the right thing? Can anyone share a similar story and how they resolved it? Obviously there was a major communication,right? To be fair, I really feel like she had a very selective attention span and then threw it all back on me in the end.

I hope her check clears

[RPetry 564]

Matt,

I feel your pain. From your exposition, you certainly go to great effort to communicate and please all of your customers. More so than maybe 99% of contractors out there. You become accustomed to praise and accolades for your work, so when the odd ball shows up, it feels like a kick in the teeth.

Water off a duck's back. Some pushy, prig lawyer, that is not worth your services. The check better clear, or else she is one stupid lawyer.

One piece of advice that has served us well over the years. We always put down a sample stain color or two on their wood for approval. I realize in this case due to "vacation", on site approval was not possible.

Try and blow it off. Get back to satisfying the other 99.6% of your customers.

[big mike 14]

Matt,

Don't worry about it. You know you went above and beyond, and she's just one of those people who are never satisfied. Move on. My experience is that is is usually the female who is a problem. Not trying to start anything, but that's my experience. I usually get one bad apple every two years or so. Hey, at least you got paid....

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If you don't have one already, you need a disclaimer on your literature: Results in color may vary due to wood age, species and condition.

We have had a couple of customers, one in specific that we did a test patch of different colors and they chose the one they liked. We applied it and told them we were going to do the whole side of the house today. They were happy and said great, cant wait. Later that evening we got a phone call and they couldn't stand the color saying it looked to plastic and unnatural and complained that we should have only done a small area and let them look at it before proceeding...???

I reminded them that we told them what we were doing, they approved it and now they are blaming us for the result?

Well, they ended up footing the bill to remove it all and have an alternate installed.

Some people are not very good at envisioning what they want and those can be the most difficult to please even though you do everything right, they find that no matter how many lengthy conversations you have and test patches are done, the result is not what they either expect or are looking for.

Rod!~

[Doug Dahlke 114]

I would let it go and move on. Some people just can't be pleased or have completely unrealistic expectations even after you try and set those expectations for them.

[Joe Ortiz 14]

You did the right thing Matt. You went the extra mile to please your client. Sometimes customers just dont get what we are trying to explain to them.

[MudDuck 20]

You explained it all when you said she was a local Attorney. A lot of times HO's can't visualize what the "whole" project is going to look like until it's done thats a given. I bet it just wasn't "exactly" what she expected and was trying to get out of paying the other half. She was just trying to save some money. Trust me I've known a lot of Attorneys on a personal level and 99% of them are the cheapest bas-turds (in their personal life) you will ever meet. Their not used to paying for anything, they "trade" it out with someone who owes them money. And they think every body owes them. Especially the woman. If it doesn't pertain to their "image" that they think someone else is seeing they don't want to spend anything on it. They want exactly what they want and they want it NOW and expect you to read their minds. Thats why I only hire female Attorneys..LOL...Then bug the shnit out of them I mean call them every other day. They turn into attack dogs for you just to get rid of you after you stop sending checks until somethings done. LOL...speaking of checks, I'd be at the bank TODAY and if that check doesn't clear Charge her for your time plus 25.00 for going back over there to get cash and if theres a problem tell her your going to file a written complaint with the state BAR. The one thing you have over an Attorney is the BAR. They'll look into it, make her respond to them over the complaint and then jerk her but into an ethics committee mu'e pronto if it's not settled. For writting a bad check or cancling one it would mare her record and they even could take her Attorney lic and she knows it. I bet thats why she finally paid you and was rude about it because you stuck to your guns and she couldn't do anyting about it. Good for you. By the way cheer up,,,,,YOU WON!!!

[fireandrain 39]

One piece of advice that has served us well over the years. We always put down a sample stain color or two on their wood for approval. I realize in this case due to "vacation", on site approval was not possible.

Hey thanks Rick, I appreciate your kind words of advice. Your right, the fact that it was booking of a bid left 9 months ago with client, and then called in to book project while they were away,,,just a messy situation waiting to happen. Having said tha, I have been in similar situations...just never turned out this way. Thanks for your support, really makes me feel a whole lot better...

[fireandrain 39]

If you don't have one already, you need a disclaimer on your literature: Results in color may vary due to wood age, species and condition.

Sage advice,Rod. I will be modifying my contracts TODAY and will be including this cautionary statement. Thanks!

[fireandrain 39]

I would let it go and move on. Some people just can't be pleased or have completely unrealistic expectations even after you try and set those expectations for them.

Thats so true,Doug. I did my best to educate this homeowner last year when we first met. She was preoccupied with other things at the time, didn't really pay much attention. Now, a year later, after project is completed as quoted, she claims that she wish she had known what her options were, that she was " just sort of hoping that she would come home from vacation and see a new deck".... What can I say.

[fireandrain 39]

speaking of checks, I'd be at the bank TODAY and if that check doesn't clear Charge her for your time plus 25.00 for going back over there to get cash and if theres a problem tell her your going to file a written complaint with the state BAR. The one thing you have over an Attorney is the BAR. They'll look into it, make her respond to them over the complaint and then jerk her but into an ethics committee mu'e pronto if it's not settled. For writting a bad check or cancling one it would mare her record and they even could take her Attorney lic and she knows it. I bet thats why she finally paid you and was rude about it because you stuck to your guns and she couldn't do anyting about it.

Thats interesting stuff MudDuck. I deposited the check yesterday in my ATM, probably should have gone to her bank directly. Anyways, pretty compelling information regarding the BAR. Hope I don't have to go that far, but good to know! Thanks.

[fireandrain 39]

Matt,

Don't worry about it. You know you went above and beyond, and she's just one of those people who are never satisfied. Move on. My experience is that is is usually the female who is a problem. Not trying to start anything, but that's my experience. I usually get one bad apple every two years or so. Hey, at least you got paid....

Thanks for the support, Mike. I Appreciate it.

[Don M. 14]

I wouldnt worry about it. We had something like that last year. We did a two tone deck, she cut the check, said everything looked really good.

A week later the husband calls back and said we missed a spot on the trellis. We did, as we were there she flew into my guy saying we were supposed to fill every knot hole in the deck. He called me, I told him to fix the trellis and to get out of there.

I sent them a copy of our agreement, what I was going to do and what we did. It said nothing about filling knot holes. She called me dozens of times and finally I told her to not ever call again.

You get them every now and then.

[Yolanda 64]

You all are so tactful and inspiring. When I was younger, I used to explode on people when I sensed they were trying to get something for nothing. Well, I have a kid in college so I had to select my clients carefully to keep the cash flowing. A prospective female client called me to clean her nasty and filthy deck. As I took the measurements, she said, " I don't make that much money." I didn't respond. Her house was around $450,000 and the "top of the line" Mercedes, in the garage, costed something too. I took pictures and emailed her a fair and reasonable estimate. She didn't call me to work, and I didn't call her to find out why. I knew it would have been to hard to work for her and I didn't want to chance it. Don't worry, be happy.

Yolanda

[RPetry 564]

You all are so tactful and inspiring. ... Don't worry, be happy. Yolanda

Sage advice and philosophy.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sometimes, it's not a good fit between client and contractor. Chalk it up to that, and remove her from your mailing list, at least for 5 years or so until the property turns.

When we first began this business, we wanted every job and every customer. Today, we don't. With time you get pretty good at spotting potential problems. One thing we have stopped doing is bending company policy. Over the years we have implemented many a policy, for many a reason. Some of these reasons include our employee's personal safety and well being, the safety of our equipment, the safety of our vehicles, the safety of our clients and their property.

For example, today we looked at a deck that we are unwilling to service unless the rail system is repaired by us before other work happens. It's an elevated deck with no stairs and rails that if you fell against them - you're ending up one story down on the pavers.

We have had customers who have been inconsiderate of our employees safety. We are very picky about high heat days! We don't bend.

We have had customers who, like yours, somehow feel that even after a thorough evaluation and explanation of the services, they can change their expectation and discount what was discussed in order to change the outcome either in result or payment. We stand our ground.

You are not a hack. You are a small business owner who works hard and strives to exceed the expectations of your clientele. Hold your head high, even when the door hits your rump as in this case. You tried to offer other solutions to make this person happy, but some people are more content to be miserable. Such a shame.

Beth

p.s. :cheers:

[Cajun Cleanin 64]

Hakuna matata my friend.

I think what you had was what I call a discounter some of them want the discount before the work and some of them like her think that once the job is done they can raise heck and complain enough that you "cut em a break" to make them happy and they will refer you to their other cheap friends.

You had your stuff together and she obviously couldn't buffalo you into doing it and that is when she got mad because she coulnd't get the discount.Like someone else said lawyers are horse traders they never want to pay for anything.So pat yourself on the back because by doing the upfront stuff you covered your flank for her end around.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Yea Matt I have color clauses in my paperwork but it seems these type people don't read anyway..they just want and hear what they want and throw wrenches at every step.

Lady owes you a tip based on stressing you alone is my opinion.

I had crete staining case recently where I agreed to return to change a color and even though the client was right there picking color we still had issues. I did like 4 spot areas with 2 different colors at 2 different tint/shades and the lady made her decission. I specifically told her I had certain amount of base to play with and that once I mix the batch she is stuck with it. She was fine with that. I go off to truck and mix up the sprayer. I get to backyard 10 minute later and she changed her mind. I told her basically it was too late and that she should go back to work and allow me to use it. She called a few days later letting me know it is good but now wants a landing done same color... I almost want to run. The ladies husband was fine wth original color and had paid me. He washed his hands of the deal is what the wife told me.

Edited July 27, 2008 by MMI Enterprises

[MichiganPowerWashing.com 14]

Customer must feel good about contractor to hire him ... BUT it works other way too .

[jeffex11 121]

lawyers and real estate agents.....WARNING!!!! you did the right thing IMO we all have our memerable customers. In my own experience I have learned to offer a limited color choice and my website shows how the same stain on different decks can look different due to absorbtion of pigment by the age of the wood. A person who wants a test sample get a $$$ increase in price. I sell time so more time is more $ . The one thing I learned is NO reddish stain goes on a deck without a picture being shown to a customer of what they can expect it to look like. The natural toner stains I use on 90% of my work prevents the "I didn't think it would be so red " comments. the darkest stain I use is olymic natural cedar toner and It comes out redwoodish on some older porous decks and light cedar on some newer decks. The honey gold is the safest color I use and make up most of my work.

[Finish Line 14]

Sage advice,Rod. I will be modifying my contracts TODAY and will be including this cautionary statement. Thanks!

Matt (or anyone else), just getting into the business and have been trying to read through all of these great threads! We are in the process of establishing contracts and this happened to catch my eye. Would you be willing to share your contract, so I get a sense of proper wording, or possibly direct me to a starting point for this?

Thanks!

Ryan Albright