Ipe' stain shoot out

[RPetry 564]

Last year, it was a citric - oxalic acid prep comparison on ipe'. The results were inconclusive. This year, it is a stain appearance and longitivity comparison.

Finally got around to working on my own ipe' deck. Wood was lightly stripped (3 oz./gal. NaOH) and washed, followed by a citric acid brightening. Citric was allowed to dry on the wood but overnight rains probably rinsed it off anyway. Sanded lightly with a RO with 60 grit.

As Armstrong-Clark has gotten a lot of attention this year, decided to stain with their "rustic brown" color to test for the full deck. But kept a floor board open for other products.

Left to right in the picture. Armstrong-Clark rustic brown, WoodTux warm honey gold, Defy - Deck Stains for Hardwoods, cedar tone color (water based), Benjamin Moore Alkyd Transparent Hardwood Finish - natural 321 10 color, Ready Seal light brown color.

The picture was taken immediately after application. All stains except the areas of the Defy are still wet.

Thanks to Scott Paul for the Defy sample, Jake Clark for the Armstrong-Clark stain, and Benjamin Moore for their new hardwood stain sample. These were provided free of charge.

The Ready Seal and WoodTux were purchased by my company for customer jobs.

[Celeste 341]

Rick, I love what you've done, however am curious as to why you chose such a dark AC stain to use?

[RPetry 564]

Rick, I love what you've done, however am curious as to why you chose such a dark AC stain to use?

Celeste,

It was not my choice of color. Jake Clark and company were kind enough to send me 10 gals. of stain gratis. Rustic brown was the color sent. 5 went on a customer's WRC deck. About 1 gal. will go on my ipe' deck.

You sound like my wife Judy! She likes the RS light brown, she actually lambswooled our teak furniture with it this morning. Now, if I could only get her to help on customer's wood!

I am not thrilled with the color either, but that is beside the point. Ipe' and any stain is a crucible. It is a test to see if A-C can live up to its newly found following on a tough hardwood.

[Celeste 341]

You should have them send you the sample pack - install something with the same "color" content as the rest just to be more even. I would imagine that such a darkly pigmented product may potentially last colorwise a bit longer than the others? But any color I'm certain is going to provide the traffic test :)

Celeste

Oh, PS, wiping one's own furniture is so much more fun than hands & knees on a hot deck :) Go Judy!

[RPetry 564]

Celeste,

Jake and company did send a sample kit. Did not think about trying to match pigment with the other test stains.

Probably for the best anyway. She is not too thrilled with using the middle of our deck for a bunch of test stains and various colors! As my ipe' gets a lot of sun, the darker A-C may have a slight advantage, but to be honest ipe' is such a tough nut for any stain, in a year I'm not so sure that it will make any difference.

Yeah, teak furniture staining with lambswool is a piece of cake. Especially when you are in the shade under a maple tree when it's 90F out.

[Celeste 341]

Sometime in the upcoming week we'll be putting various stains on boards - what I will be interested to see is about 48 hours after staining, we're going to cut the boards to see the penetration. I'll make sure I do good pics like yours :)

Celeste

(Except I have no Defy or Ready Seal or Benny Moore - it will be WT, A/C, TWP )

[jbruno 14]

Ready Seal looks good, but how well did it penetrate? HAve yet to get an Ipe deck, but I hear they are hell on saw blades!!!!

[RPetry 564]

James,

Ipe' is a difficult wood. Carbide drill bits and saw blades help.

My helper stripped and restained my ipe' deck last year with Ready Seal. The wood took two light brushings of Ready Seal med. red without problem. But I had let the wood naturally weather, after stripping off old Cabot's ATO the previous year.

This year after a light strip and sand, the RS took to the wood fine. Only put one app on to compare equally with the other stains. I'm sure the ipe' could have taken another light oiling of RS.

There are pics of the ipe' done last year with RS medium red somewhere on TGS. Search for "ipe Ready Seal".

Hate to admit it, but at the moment the Defy water based stain looks the best out of all the samples.

[MudDuck 20]

Hey Rick how about a pic a little closer or even standing over showing grain camparisions. Sample too small and close together for my eyeballs. LOL

[Scott Paul 164]

Hate to admit it, but at the moment the Defy water based stain looks the best out of all the samples.

I have had numerous customers tell me that the Defy holds color longer on their hardwoods then any other brands we sell.

[Scott Paul 164]

(Except I have no Defy or Ready Seal or Benny Moore - it will be WT, A/C, TWP )

Isn't there some Defy in your garage?

[Celeste 341]

LOL, there is now Scott! We're going to give Rick's test zone a try but on a larger scale. We're planning on installing a half dozen or so various hardwoods in a section of our deck that is scheduled for rebuild next spring. Not only will these boards and their stains get a standard exposure testing but also "real world" abuse of traffic from dogs, kids, dirty boots and plant watering.

Now to accumulate the wood and time to get it built!

Celeste

PS - For Ready Seal users, which tint should we put down for testing - what's your favorite or the most popular?

Edited September 30, 2008 by CarolinaProWash

[Scott Paul 164]

LOL, there is now Scott!

What color did I send you? If you want I will send some small samples of the other two Defy colors to test. Edited September 30, 2008 by Scott Paul

[RPetry 564]

PS - For Ready Seal users, which tint should we put down for testing - what's your favorite or the most popular?

Celeste,

I am partial to Ready Seal medium red on ipe'. Picture attached.

[Scott Paul 164]

Rick, how are the stains holding out so far?

[plainpainter 217]

yeah - I am dying to know as well!

[plainpainter 217]

Scott - I thought I once saw you say that messmers got the best longevity on hardwoods from what your customers said?

[GAPainter 14]

Scott - I thought I once saw you say that messmers got the best longevity on hardwoods from what your customers said?

That is what he told me, but all he said a couple posts ago was that numerous ppl told him that. I would just think he was saying that he is getting good reports?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have seen many a deck turn totally black with Messmers, floors, rails all of it at once (uniform and total failure). We don't install it, just strip it and put down a new product. Have seen this also on various species, ipe, cedar etc....

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Rick, how are the stains holding out so far?

Scott,

At a little over the 6 month mark, and after a very cold winter with two young dogs playing on the deck, see the attached picture.

Hard to see, trying to get all the stain samples in a single frame, but my impressions are the following.

From left to right, all one coat applications: Ready Seal, light brown, Benjamin Moore Alkyd Transparent Hardwood Finish - natural 321 10, Defy - Deck Stains for Hardwoods, cedar tone color, WoodTux warm honey gold, and Armstrong-Clark rustic brown.

Color retention - Have to admit that the water based Defy wins. Kept its' original color the best and also weathered to an even color.

Worst color retention - Ready Seal light brown. Even color but faded the most. From past experience, 2 coats of a darker pigment on newly stripped ipe' would have helped, but this was a one coat shoot out.

The Benjamin Moore held its color fairly well in some areas but not in others, resulting in a "muddy" appearance.

The single application of Wood Tux is similar to the Ben Moore, variable, leading to an uneven looking finish.

The Armstrong-Clark has faded somewhat, but in an even manner. With a light bleach cleaning, will probably look better and possibly last until this coming September, the one year mark.

The remainder of the deck is stained with Armstrong-Clark's rustic brown. The teak furniture is stained with Ready Seal light brown, two separate cleanings and stainings back to back in two years.

[Scott Paul 164]

Scott - I thought I once saw you say that messmers got the best longevity on hardwoods from what your customers said?

Messmers is our best selling hardwood stain by far. I have numerous people tell me it lasts for a year and I have numerous people who say it lasted 6 months or less. Defy Hardwood seems to have the best color retention of them all. This is all coming from customer feedback as I do not have alot of IPE in Michigan.

ps. I am looking at an Mahogany deck tomorrow. We did it two years ago with messmers and the customer said it help up very well. I will take a picture.

[Scott Paul 164]

I have seen many a deck turn totally black with Messmers, floors, rails all of it at once (uniform and total failure). We don't install it, just strip it and put down a new product. Have seen this also on various species, ipe, cedar etc....

Beth

You also have the VOC version in your state.

[Scott Paul 164]

ps. I am looking at an Mahogany deck tomorrow. We did it two years ago with messmers and the customer said it help up very well. I will take a picture.

Here is a picture of a hardwood deck we did in 2007. I was shocked to see that the Messmers held the color for the full two years. The only thing wrong was that it was very dirty from all the trees. It did not turn black at all.

I believe this deck is Mahogany since the HO said it was. It looks like IPE to me though.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

You also have the VOC version in your state.

Have seen this prior to 2005 as well.....

Not just since then....

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

Scott - how will you approach re-doing that deck? Is this a full strip/brighten/stain - or is this just a wash and restain?

[Scott Paul 164]

Scott - how will you approach re-doing that deck? Is this a full strip/brighten/stain - or is this just a wash and restain?

Dan, we strip/brighten every deck we do. Just use different concentrates for the stripper depending on the project. From a very diluted formula on a new deck to remove mill glaze to a high concentration of HD80 followed by the Powersolve on a film-forming finish such as Behr.