Asphalt Shingle Test

[svp07 14]

I have been interested in asphalt roof cleaning but am worried about what chemicals will do to the asphalt. This was especially true for bleach, which I hear some use and others warn against. i wanted to see the direct effects of bleach on the asphalt shingle so I decided to soak a piece of shingle in ultra bleach, 6% sodium hypochlorite. I was just going to leave it in for a few hours, but I forgot about for a day and a half. I finally took it out and washed it off, it seemed to maintain its intergrity. I have also been check it nonw for about 5 days, it is still flexible and strong.

Has anyone else done any testing on shingles?

Steve

[RyanH 14]

There are two "reasons" why bleach *may* be bad for shingles. The primary reason is the presence of sodium hydroxide (small amounts) in household bleach. Many claim that it acts as a degreaser and will dissolve the oils in the shingles and cause the grit to lose cohesion. You can get around this issue by using something like pool chlorine, which contains only water and chlorine. There are some *very* trace amounts of hydroxide in this, but only because of the properties of the chemicals involved.....not enough to even consider.

The other reason is the affect of chlorine itself on substances. When exposed to sunlight and/or heat, chlorine can form free radicals and severely damage the integrity of stuff. In short, it changes the molecular structure of the substances with which it comes into contact. But this also happens in very small amounts and would require repeated application of a strong source of chlorine over a long period of time. If you drench a shingle in chlorine and bleach and leave it on a hot driveway for the day, and continue to do the same over a period of weeks, you will probably notice that the shingle becomes brittle and can break (old shingles will do this too after many many years). I think you're safe with a one-day application of a few hours dwelling time.

Awhile back, Paul posted a link to a write-up by the ARMA on this issue. Here is the link:

http://www.asphaltroofing.org/pdf/tb_217.pdf

Ryan H.

[Firedkm 14]

Steve,

Yes I have done the sam thing you are doing and also with a sodium hydroxide cleaner. Both where fine and the test I did I let it soak for about a month.

I use beach for my cleanings. Just because its quicker. The sodium hydroxide cleaners do a better job in my opinion but its more work.

Some roofing manufactures recommend using bleach for temporary results. It seem to last about a year before needing it again. One of the contractors I am friendly with talked to on manufacture and they stated if its labled for cleaning roofs it was fine to use. I also think a roof cleaned with a sodium hydroxide cleaner stays cleaner longer.

There are products out there that will inhibit mold and algea growths on roofs. Some are companies that want you to buy inot there product and program. I would stay away from them. I think its a waste of money myself. Anyway the only way to keep the growth from coming back it using an algeacide. I am experimenting right now on a roof using a pool algeacide to see how it works.

I will now in about a year from now, so I have no idea if it will work or not. I think it will and I hope it does.

[RyanH 14]

Pool companies are now putting out chemicals that contain traces of either copper or zinc. Both are fantastic in retarding future growth of algae on a roof, but getting the stuff to stay on the roof would be a challenge I presume. And they're currently expensive. Owens Corning is putting out roofing products with copper-coated granules to prevent the growth of stuff on shingles. When I build a house one day, this is what I will go with.

[CLASSICPW 14]

I personally have gotten almost no jobs for roof washing and the estimates that i've gotten I've referred to other companies. The main reason.....i have no idea how to do it. Do you use lifts or can you x-jet a solution of chlorine onto the roof from the ground and rinse?

[Paul B. 523]

Sodium Hypochlorite contain less than 1/4% Sodium Hydroxide as part of the manufacturing process (both for Chlorox and liquid pool shock).

Sodium Hydroxide is a stripper/degreaser - if you watch your rinse water coming out of the down-spout after washing with it you can see the oils that were removed. The rinsewater is oily brown. Sodium Hydroxide is not an approved cleaner by the asphalt shingle manufacturers.

I prefer Sodium Hypochlorite as it is effective when applied in the correct 6% range and less damaging. You have to leave it on long enough to be effective in killing all the spores and in some instances or areas you may require 2 applications.

The problem with asphalt shingles (other than some of the new onew that Ryan is speaking of) is that they contain a source of foor for mold, mildew, algea and moss. The other problem is even if you have shingles that are resistant, the dirt that collects on the roof will promote mold, mildew, etc. growth.

Proper roof ventillation, cutting back tree branches to allow sun drying and regular maintenance to remove dirt and debris should be part of the plan to keep the bad stuff from growing on the roof.

[svp07 14]

I had recently purchased some Sil-O-Wet from Espec. Says it will stay on a surface for 24-36 months and retards the growth of mildew. Has anyone tried this stuff on roofs?

Steve

[Firedkm 14]

Ryan,

The pool company I used to work for about 15 years ago had the algeacide with copper in it. Its also less money than some of the commercial product like roof-a-cide or shingle guard. A 16 oz bottle cost me 18.99 and I will put it in a 55 gal drum and fill with water. That was the recommendation from the owner of that pool store I worked at. I used less that half on my mother-in-laws house. $9.00 for chem is not bad.

I use a shur-flo pump with a 60-40 chlorine mix. That gives me approx 4-6% of bleach solution. I walk the roof no matter the pitch. No lifts needed. I have repelling gear that I use to do this and works great.

As of right now I am like Paul with not much roof cleaning yet. I am not really advertising for it yet. All the roofs I have done are for friends and family for practice and experimenting on. Its been 20 roofs so far that I have done just charging for chems only for the "victims":)

[RyanH 14]

How did the algaecide hold up over time? Did it remove the stuff from the roof without much rinsing?

Also, how do you do your bleach solution? Just spray and leave it on, or rinse off (if rinsing, how long of a dwell time have you found that works best)? Ideally I would like to apply just before a heavy rain and leave it for the rain to wash off, but that is not always the case.

Thanks for sharing!

Ryan H.

[paul-uk 500]

I walk the roof no matter the pitch. No lifts needed. I have repelling gear that I use to do this and works great.

:)

hi dale..have you any pics of you doing this...it would be interesting to see the meathod you use to tie off.....i think ryan uses this meathod aswell........i cannot see me doing it as there could be too many variables for problems :-)

[Firedkm 14]

Paul,

I dont have pictures of it. Most of the time I am working by myself, so the only pics I do have of anything is before and afters.

Ryan,

The roof is cleaned with the diluted pool chlorine and rinsed before the algeacide is applied. The roof I am testing on has only had it one for 2 months now. So I am not really sure how well it will work just yet. I am to cheap to "buy" into a service to buy there products for roofs. I really wish a supplier would market and sell a commercial product for us to use without these stupid "buy" into crap. This is the reason I went to my old boss and talked to him about what I was looking for. He called the manufacture of the stuff I am using and they gave him the "recipe" to try out.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I use straight 10.5% pool chlorine Xjetted onto the roof using the M5 Xjet with a 5.6gpm machine...that gives me around 3.3% sodium hypchlorite hitting the roof. That seems just right, with little to no re-application needed. Dwell time is 5-10 minutes, if that. If it isn't really bad, I could rinse after a minute or so. It works fast.

Right now, I Xjet from the roof. It is a pain hauling chlorine to the roof, but is faster after I'm set up. I coat the entire roof in about 15 minutes, and then rinse. Takes about an hour to rinse.

I tried the Shur-flow method, but didn't like it.. with 200' of hose, the pump just doesn't put out much product, and it takes me an hour or more to coat the roof. I'm looking into setting up a roller pump system that will give me 7-9gpm at 100psi or so. That, I think, will give me a mix of the best points of both methods. Anyone have a used 4hp motor they want to part with cheap? :)

I get a lot of roofwash requests...I'd say its around 40% of the work I do.

[RyanH 14]

Good info.

I'm going to be trying a few new ideas soon involving cheap pumps and chlorine. I've already had success pulling the chlorine solution through a 60' hose and Xjetting onto the roof, although the concentration is a little less than desireable (only about a 10' rise, though, keeping consistent with what Paul said about Xjet's ability to prime at 10-12'). Electric pumps are cheap enough and can easily pump the volume I need. They have too low a pressure to send the stuff up on it's own, though. BUT, I've got a few ideas that might work. Pulling a bucket of the chlorine up to a rooftop seems very dangerous and difficult to me, especially on a roof where rappelling equipment is necessary. Currently I use a 25 gallon container on a hand truck (big, knobby tires) and position it in a good location to reach most of the roof then move it for the other side. Running a 100' line with a pump to provide additional pressure will be ideal.

[Mike Williamson 198]

I tried Xjetting from the roof from a 15 gallon drum on the ground and couldn't get a strong enough solution.

I haul 2.5 gallon jugs up the ladder, one at a time. We don't have too many roofs here that aren't easily walkable, so that isn't really an issue. For those roofs, I just Xjet from the ground. I haven't had to deal with one that I couldn't either walk or Xjet from the ground. As many easy roofs as there are to do, I think I'd just turn down anything too difficult.

[Firedkm 14]

Mike,

I remember you setting up the sureflo pump on your rig. What was the size of your pump? It does not take me an hour to cover the roofs I am doing but I will say using the x-jet is definately faster. I have used it but on the one really steep roof I did it was not pratical to use the x-jet. It was a 2nd story roof witha 12-12 pitch. I felt like I was repelling down a cliff.:rolleyes:

[Rick G 14]

I find the surflow to be the best on roofs. I dont even start my washer when I clean a roof any more. I will be replacing my 1.8gpm shurflow with a 3.0gpm (or more) soon. I apply with shur flow and rinse from the ground with fire hose nozzle. Nice and quiet and fast.

[Chappy 138]

Rick. How does this work on tile roofs. I have found that no matter what chem I use I have to apply direct pressure to get them clean.

What is a fire hose nozzle?

[Mike Williamson 198]

The pump I installed is a 4.5gpm pump. The flow is great with a short length of hose, say 10' or so. When I run it through the 200' of hose I need to stretch from the trailer to the roof, the flow drops to damned near 1gpm.

Maybe I need to take a day and go visit Rick! :)

[Firedkm 14]

Rick do you have a picture of the nozzle you use? If so please post it or send it to me. Thank you

Mike,

I have 200' of hose on mine. Its has dropped in its out put but I am sure it's not as low as yours. Mine is a 3gpm model

[Mike Williamson 198]

Well, I went with the flojet because they had a higher output (4.5gpm) than the shurflo...But it sounds like I'm getting LESS than I may have gotten with the 3gpm shurflow. Live and learn...I wasn't even trying to save money going with a cheaper brand, it was just that Shurflo didn't have anything that high.

I like the roller pump idea, because I can rinse with it too. I bet I can rinse the roof faster with 9gpm too. We'll have to see!

[Rick G 14]

I run mine on 200 ft of 3/8in hose and I keep two 25ft lengths in the truck when needed. It does drop the GPM quite a bit. I apply it with a six ft PVC wand with a 60-degree spray pattern. That tip helps it cover a lot and with the six ft wand in back and forth pattern I can move at a steady pace. I would like to shave some time off so that’s why I want to up the gpm. Mike I think you just are so use to the speed of the x-jet the shur flow just seems slow. And it is slower. But I seem to use less product with the shurflow, I believe to the 'mist' or 'wind' factor. Joe, on tile my 'solution' is mixed to strength that when applied the growth disappears within minutes. By the time I am done with one section of the roof the part I started on is clean looking. Sounds like you need to up the strength or change solution. I think you said you use SH which will not produce these results. A respirator and protective clothing is a must. Dale the nozzle I started with I got from Wal-Mart, of all places, and shoots a steady stream about 50-60ft or so, depending on the pressure from the house. On two story roofs it will not reach and must be rinsed from the roof. So I just get up there and apply chems, get down and roll up my hose and then flood the roof from the top down with water from the ground. The fire hose nozzle I have now is brass (the one from WM is blue plastic) and I got it from a specialty plumbing shop and it had to ordered. Ill try and put together a pic. I must credit Don Phelps with this application idea. It may not be the absolute fastest way, but it is light years ahead of what I was doing. And compared to the companies here that shoot strait 10% from the ground and walk away (no rinsing) I think its a good alternative. I think that is the absolute fastest way to clean a roof, spay it and forget it, but I don’t care to leave that strong chem up there. Most of the roofs I clean stay that way for over two years and don’t show signs of re-growth until year three. Mike keep in mind BigPete has a roller pump but prefers the ShurFlow, you may want to call him before making your final decision. Rick G

[Mike Williamson 198]

Rick:

What is the strength of the chlorine mix you're applying? I find I still have to rinse from the roof. I'd be interested in a pic of the nozzle you use to rinse.

[Rick G 14]

Mike it depends on the roof. Remember I almost always clean tile so I use a 60/40 water to chlorine as a starting point. I try a test spot and go up or down from there. I dont use that strong a mix on shingles, proably more like 80/20. I know it still seems strong but remember, normally when chems go up time goes down. Funny, I did a roof last week. I passed a rig unloading to do a roof, nice rig too. One guy alone and I saw him with his surface cleaner already on the roof. I had nothing eles to do that afternoon so I unloaded and waited for him to start, about five mins. I heard him start his washer and saw him get up on the roof. (he was five houses down, cookie cutter homes so the roofs were roughly the same.) I 'pulled the trigger' seconds after he did. I was done applying my chems and was on the ground rinsing when he was just turning the corner on one side. I was done rinsing and rolled up and he was just apporching 1/2 way on the second side. I pulled past him leaving and he was less than 3/4 of the way done. I wounder if he was like "What the he-- was that all about?" Made my day. Funny thing is this has happend to me over a year ago. I watched a guy pull up and clean a roof in 1/2 the time I did on the same type of roof. Thats when I knew there was a better way and I starting asking questions to roofers, homeowners, called other cleaners acting as a homeowner, anyone who knew anything, and they where all tight lipped. Finally I got a large, well known roofing contractor that is friends with my mom to call some of the larger compaies in the area and say 'I have many roofs that need cleaning, tell me what you use on them or you dont get my buissness'. All of them said stong chlorine. Some said they added TSP to it. A couple still wouldnt come out with it. This is how I came up with my method. Right? Wrong? Dont know but it works for me and is profitable. Come down sometime and well go out on 'Grandmaw's boat' Rick G

[Mike Williamson 198]

Actually, the 80/20 is a bit weaker than what I use on shingles...I use about a 70/30 ratio and I still have to rinse from the roof, and often have to re-coat areas. I don't do tiles, since we don't have any and I'm a bit large to walk tile roofs easily.

I may spend some time this week playing around with the shurflo setup and see what I can figure out to make it faster. I made the PVC wand like you and Don suggested. I'll have to look to see what tip I put in it...don't recall right now. Fairly large and wide tip though.

[Rick G 14]

Heres a pic of me with the firemans nozzle- Ill try to post a close up- this is the plastic one from WM- Its in the Garden Section. It reaches the peak of most all one storys I do.

[JustMe 14]

How did you guys make the wand from PVC?