Newer decks

[Tonyg 14]

Most of the decks I have done have been significantly older wood/decks. The deck I am doing this week is PTP approx 2yrs old with quality lumber but had heavy mildew caused from an abundance of shade from trees that were just cut down. I have only done one other deck this age and experienced the same problems. The problem I am having is the wood is very splotchy with grey areas especially around the summer ring marks and knots, almost a brighter patina in color in those areas. Also, stains from heavy mildew or pot rings that did not come up. I am using a Deckster and used a light NaOH that I think would be equivalent to about 3oz per gallon, SH of about 3% (plus washed with house wash prior), and then neutralized with Ox at 6oz per gallon. I did get some furring so I don't "think" my mix was too weak. The boards had beveled cuts so I used a 25 degree tip at around 470psi and a 65degree tip at under 1000psi to hit the bevels.

I washed it yesterday and today it looked terrible and had to do significant sanding to get the wood presentable. I will be staining tomorrow.

I feel like I am not handling the age of the wood right. The last deck that I had these problems with was very cheap lumber and using Wood Tux. Other than the problems the decks could not be different. Is there anything I should be doing differently with these type decks??

I would have attached pics but my computer just deleted the before and after pics of my last two jobs during the download from my camera somehow.

[plainpainter 217]

I hate new wood. Pressure treated needs to 'open' up and leach some of those chems for a few years before I like to touch it. Nothing penetrates and nothing sticks. The only thing I think actually works for new wood - is to scrub it with TSP/Bleach - and then hit it with a porch&floor latex paint. For some reason latex floor paint sticks great to new wood that's been properly cleaned.

[PressurePros 249]

Tony, when you say it looked terrible.. why do you say that? Because it was furry? Exposed PT wood that has been exposed but not been sealed will fur up something awful. Nothing you can do about it except sand and buff. I have varied chems, pressure, dwell time, prewet.. none of it made any difference.

[James 625]

The problem is not your solution. It's the age of the wood. The areas that are grey have not degraded enough to come off. Increasing your solution will cause more problems . Just buff and u will be OK. I just finished a 1 year old PT and had minor buffing to do.

Many years ago I had sort of a chart on what to expect with regards to Pt as it ages . I don't know what BB it's on ?

I have no idea what Dan is talking about ?

Edited May 21, 2009 by James

[plainpainter 217]

Jim - I said new pressure treated doesn't accept stain. It's kind of like cedar is to the painting world - as long as cedar is ejecting out tannins - nothing seems to stick. Pressure treated is 'juicy' from all the chems. I like my wood to season a few seasons. My neighbors deck is a perfect candidate, it was built four years ago and weathered in a shady area. It's right where I want the wood to be - enough of the surface has degraded that it will come off real nice with a downstream hydroxide solution or a good bleach/tsp solution.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

When our deck was newly built we washed and sealed it the same week it was built. It's made of PT lumber. It took the sealer fine, held up like a champ, and helped to prevent the onset of UV damage. Only hardwoods benefit from "seasoning" them exposed to the elements.

Beth

[plainpainter 217]

What sealer did you use?

[Scott Paul 164]

New ACQ treated lumber is completely different then the old CCA. The ACQ seems to repel new stains causing them to not last as long as they should.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

What sealer did you use?

Pre-VOC change wood Tux, circa 2003. The good stuff.

New ACQ treated lumber is completely different then the old CCA. The ACQ seems to repel new stains causing them to not last as long as they should.

The lattice is ACQ, has held up like a champ, no problems. The flooring is CA-B. We got the expected life out of that too. Again, Pre-VOC changes....

AFTER 2005 - The touch up we did to the floor with the reduced VOC WT yielded a CRAPPY result.

Deck is now sealed with AC.

Beth

Edited May 21, 2009 by Beth n Rod

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I hate new wood. Pressure treated needs to 'open' up and leach some of those chems for a few years before I like to touch it. Nothing penetrates and nothing sticks. The only thing I think actually works for new wood - is to scrub it with TSP/Bleach - and then hit it with a porch&floor latex paint. For some reason latex floor paint sticks great to new wood that's been properly cleaned.

Trouble maker!!!

:lol:

Rod!~

[James 625]

The new AsQ needs a few months of weathering as opposed to the old stuff which you just had to wait for the moisture to reach 15%. The new stuff takes sealer slowly. We did two coats on different days and it took much oil.

[Tonyg 14]

Thanks for the replies!

Buffing was not enough to get a good finish. I had to use a floor sander and then still hit many spots by hand. It wasn't a matter of getting stain to soak in but to get the pre-stain finish more of a consistent. James I think "The areas that are grey have not degraded enough to come off" I think is the best answer for what I was looking at but a stronger mix wouldn't help? I know I would fur it up a lot more but would that clean it better?

Stained it today and outside of a few spots that were lighter because of some spot sanding it came out OK. I think the color helped as well.

This is a 50/50 mix of Sequoia and Natural which gave a nice semi-transparent with about twice the pigment of a semi-trans.

[Tonyg 14]

Here are the samples for the mix. One side Sequoia and the other the 50/50 mix. I believe I will use that when the HO wants a red instead of even offering the semi-solid. Just gives a nicer finish with more grain showing through and it really isn't a big difference in color. These are samples on some boards I replaced on another deck. I needed some old wood samples for a more realistic customer choice so I wouldn't have anymore surprises when comparing it to my new wood samples.

[PressurePros 249]

Tony looks good.. you have the gift. All of your work is top notch.

You hear all of this stuff about low pressure, low pressure, low pressure on wood. i have found that there is a diminishing return if you got too low. Below 800 psi, you do leave behind more fuzzy fibers.

I'm not a fan of spot sanding for the reason you described. When i am on a deck I try to feather it out a foot on either side.

[Tonyg 14]

Tony looks good.. you have the gift. All of your work is top notch.

You hear all of this stuff about low pressure, low pressure, low pressure on wood. i have found that there is a diminishing return if you got too low. Below 800 psi, you do leave behind more fuzzy fibers.

I'm not a fan of spot sanding for the reason you described. When i am on a deck I try to feather it out a foot on either side.

I'll take encouragement any day. Thanks!

I was painting their kitchen yesterday and it was a little embarrassing when looking out the window the HO made the comment "looks like you need to clean some of it again" :thinking:

I could tell when I was sanding that it was closing some of the grain up by trying to get out the blemeshes but it would have looked bad either way.

I need to get a few more of these under my belt.

[RPetry 564]

Tony,

Too much pigment and red for my personal taste, but what a great job in prepping and staining a difficult wood. Kudos to your work and effort!

Have not seen SS screws used with PT wood in a very long time. Nice job.

[Tonyg 14]

Rick,

I tried to talk him out of it since he changed his mind from a Cedar Tone to the Red/White after he saw the pics from the first 2-tone deck I did last month. I didn't want to do a mini-me deck. The Sequoia/Natural was a compromise.

I was able to recover the pics from the cleaning so I thought I would post what I was talking about. I did sand it out clean before it was stained but these are from after the cleaning.

Not enough chems? Not enough pressure? Or is that the best I could expect?

Edited May 22, 2009 by Tonyg

[RPetry 564]

Hi Tony,

I do not know. For 2 yr. old wood, PT or not, the after cleaning pics do not look like wood is ready to be spot sanded and stained. Just my observation from a few pictures, not being critical of your work.

On some jobs, we do a very light bleach, kill the mold/mildew cleaning followed by a sodium percarb cleaning. After that, citric acid for a neutralizer/brightener.

Hard to say, after a while you just get a kind of feel for what is best. Wood is somewhat of an art. Beware of "cookie cutter" advice.

I still think your after staining pictures look great. Keep an eye on the wood and stain for the next two years. It will be the best teacher.

[PressurePros 249]

That's washing technique, Tony. I wash one board at a time. Spray pattern just wide enough to cover a single board. More pressure will remove that gray.

[YVPW 20]

On newer PT decks as long as you have your chemicals right just increase your pressure and that will fix the problem on these kind of decks

[plainpainter 217]

That's definitely too low a pressure rinse job. Heck I think 800 psi is low - heck with the purists, bump up your pressure to 1000-1200 psi - that will knock everything off. Remember the high pressure is bad mantra - is because guys were butchering decks with 2500psi low volume machines at too close a distance. Newly grey decks don't clean up well with percarbs. You have to wait til the deck is a solid 4-5 years to develop an even 'crust' of sun UV damaged wood that comes off evenly.

[James 625]

I do much new wood. That grey will not come off with chems or pressure. There is a point at which it has to be taken off with buffing . If the deck was done at the 6 month point a bleaching and a rinse could be done. After that it depends on many factors and choice of products.

When wood starts to grey. It's just that grey and it hasn't broken down enough to be removed with pressure or chems. Increasing either causes more problems. When a new deck is built I give the customer a schedule of when I have to oil to avoid this problem.

The deck that I just competed was at 8 months and had some minor firing which my defurnomore machine took care of

[YVPW 20]

On the newer decks, decks that aren't maybe a month or 2 old I just use chem with a no pressure wash. If there a year old, the chems and higher pressure has worked for me for the most part. I buff everything on every deck except the newest. I have saw what Jim described in a few small areas while buffing. The sun doesn't gray out the wood evenly with decks that have rails and areas of shade.