Homeowner Attempt at Clean and Neutralize before staining (with pics)

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Based on what I've read (and have been told) in other threads, I attempted to clean and neutralize my deck in preparation for staining.

Deck: IPE

Age: 2 years old

Current stain: Penofin for Hardwoods

First year: Sanded then stained, right after construction was complete

Second Year: Used Penofin first step prep for Hardwoods, then stained

So, this year I bought DEFY brand Cleaner and Brightener.

Used the cleaner.

The powder is extremely difficult to dissolve. I tried to use my garden sprayer, but it kept getting clogged. I improvised....I put the solution in a bucket...then used my broom to apply it to the boards.

I let the cleaner dwell on the boards for at least 15-20+ minutes. I used a coarse push broom to agitate the cleaner on the decking boards.

I rinsed the cleaner (garden hose, no pressure washer).

As I was rinsing it, I could see splotches/streaks of gray (old stain??).

In fact, I even saw a sneaker print on one of the boards (pic attached).

I decided to do another round of cleaning. Used hot water instead of warm water to try to get the powder to dissolve.

Powder still didn't dissolve good....but this time I went at it a little harder withe the push broom. I could see the gray coming out of the wood. Got the sneaker print out of the wood...

I could still see some gray in the wood, but that was the best I was gonna get it. I rinsed again.

I made a solution of the DEFY Brightener (oxalic acid).

Applied the acid with my garden sprayer, let it dwell for about 10 minutes or so, then rinsed real good.

Finished around 4pm.

My questions:

1. How in the world do you get the Cleaner to dissolve so it will go through a garden sprayer?

2. I thought the cleaner would restore the wood to the nice mahogany look that they had when I got the wood from the lumber yard? How do you get the wood to the mahogany color "naturally" without stain?

3. How does my work look? Any obvious mistakes by looking at the pictures?

4. I was hoping to stain tomorrow (that would give the deck 24 hours to dry). Is that long enough or should I let the deck dry longer?

5. If I let the deck dry longer, how long can I go before I would need to clean and brighten again?

6. I ran my hand across the deck boards. The wood seems smooth...no furries. Should I run my Random Orbital Palm Sander across the boards before staining? Would sanding help the stain absorb? help the stain last longer?

Thanks for the help.

mm

Photos:

Photo 1: Post Brightening....

Photo 2: Before

Photo 3: the sneaker print (after the 1st cleaning)

Photo 4: After the 1st cleaning

Photo 5: After the 2nd cleaning

[bigchaz 157]

If the DEFY is a percarbonate based cleaner it wont work well in a garden sprayer. It off gasses messes with the pressure and you are right the granules are often large enough that they clog the tips on those small sprayers

Broom in the bucket was a good solution.

I don't do much ipe but I wouldn't be comfortable staining based on how it looks currently. Here's a sample shot of some cleaned and brightened IPE

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

If the DEFY is a percarbonate based cleaner it wont work well in a garden sprayer. It off gasses messes with the pressure and you are right the granules are often large enough that they clog the tips on those small sprayers

Broom in the bucket was a good solution.

I don't do much ipe but I wouldn't be comfortable staining based on how it looks currently. Here's a sample shot of some cleaned and brightened IPE

I'm confused......Why wouldn't you be comfortable??

[bigchaz 157]

Not clean enough

[PressurePros 248]

Your only recourse at this stage, Michael, if you wish to restore the look to fresh wood would be to rent a floor sander and do the entire floor. Was the deck ever pressure washed? There appears to be stop and start marks throughout the wood.

[plainpainter 217]

You are getting there, Mike. But since you aren't using a pressure washer - you really have to scrub, scrub, scrub.

Go through the whole cleaning process again - mix the Defy Cleaner at full strength into warm/hot water in your bucket and scrub it on - and keep scrubbing areas every 2-3 minutes for the 15-20 minute duration, and keep adding more cleaner as you continue to scrub the same areas.

And then when time is up - keep the scrubber in your hand and your hose as well and scrub into the deck as you are shooting it with the rinse water at the same time.

Then brighten again - this time just only need to rinse after dwell.

And then repost pictures and this time it should be perfect.

[RPetry 564]

Your only recourse at this stage, Michael, if you wish to restore the look to fresh wood would be to rent a floor sander and do the entire floor. Was the deck ever pressure washed? There appears to be stop and start marks throughout the wood.

I'm with Ken on this. Sand, and it will be grand!

If you have a random orbital, get some 60 grit paper and have a go at it. Your deck is not large and it should not take too much effort or time. Better pick up a pair of knee pads.

If you are going to be using Penofin for hardwoods again, check out their website. Per their recommendations, you have just bought into 2 more cleanings and staining in the next year.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

My responses in blue;

My questions:

1. How in the world do you get the Cleaner to dissolve so it will go through a garden sprayer? Use warm water and then pour it through a paint strainer. These can be bought at most paint stores. This will remove any large particles.

2. I thought the cleaner would restore the wood to the nice mahogany look that they had when I got the wood from the lumber yard? How do you get the wood to the mahogany color "naturally" without stain? Once the surface has been subject to the sun's UV rays, it will no longer look like it did as new due to the fact that most of the extractives have been bleached out. Did you notice the cherry colored water? This is that color being washed out.

3. How does my work look? Any obvious mistakes by looking at the pictures? I wouldn't say there are any mistakes but I will say it does not pass for what can be achieved with a pressure washer. There appears to be much left in the wood that will detract from the finish later. That is why others have suggested sanding or buffing the deck. This will help get rid of more of that superficial residue that scrubbing just can't get out.

4. I was hoping to stain tomorrow (that would give the deck 24 hours to dry). Is that long enough or should I let the deck dry longer? If you are satisfied with the look at this point then 24 hours is sufficient time to dry.

5. If I let the deck dry longer, how long can I go before I would need to clean and brighten again? ie if you are unable to get back to staining it before it begins to turn gray and mother natures pollutants begin growing...2 weeks.

6. I ran my hand across the deck boards. The wood seems smooth...no furries. Should I run my Random Orbital Palm Sander across the boards before staining? Would sanding help the stain absorb? help the stain last longer? A sander would work but there are other methods we use that avoid burnishing the wood. Sanders on Ipe can heat up the extractives and cause them to turn to a varnish which in turn can prevent any penetration of your finish. I suggest using an osborne brush on a 7" buffer to do this with. It is an expensive piece of equipment. Check into your local rental stores and see if they have one for rent instead. The brush you will have to buy and it will last you for several cleanings.

Thanks for the help.

mm

Good luck and let us know if you have any further questions.

Rod!~

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Your only recourse at this stage, Michael, if you wish to restore the look to fresh wood would be to rent a floor sander and do the entire floor. Was the deck ever pressure washed? There appears to be stop and start marks throughout the wood.

Nope....never had a pressure washer used on it.

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

I'm with Ken on this. Sand, and it will be grand!

If you have a random orbital, get some 60 grit paper and have a go at it. Your deck is not large and it should not take too much effort or time. Better pick up a pair of knee pads.

If you are going to be using Penofin for hardwoods again, check out their website. Per their recommendations, you have just bought into 2 more cleanings and staining in the next year.

I think I am gonna go with this plan.

I have my Random Orbital Sander and paper ready to go......

I will post pictures after it has been sanded.

Rick- could you explain what you mean by 2 more cleanings and stainings in the next year? I have used Penofin for Hardwoods on the deck for the last two years already....

Thank you.

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Just completed the sanding.....

About 3 hours total with my Ridgid ROS....60 grit, as RPetry suggested. Used 2 sanding discs for whole deck. About 290 sq ft total of decking.

Got rid of a lot of leftover that the cleaning didn't get......

The sanding also gave me a chance to sand down some problem areas, i.e. areas where the boards had checked/splintered a bit.

Now, to go mow the grass.....

Gonna stain with the Penofin for Hardwoods in the early evening, after the sun has passed over the house, and the deck is in the shade.

Quick question:

Now that I have cleaned twice, brightened once, then sanded the whole thing......is there any Penofin stain left in the wood?

If I wanted to, could I go to a different brand stain at this point?

I was considering the DEFY for Hardwoods....I can get it locally. Opinions?

Pictures attached.

Thanks for the help.

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Not clean enough

after the sanding, I see what you mean by not clean enough.....

thanks.

[bigchaz 157]

Definitely a nice improvement with the sanding

I don't use Penofin so Rick please correct me if I'm wrong here, but I imagine he is referring to the fact that you will have to do this same cleaning/sanding process every single year with the Penofin. IE its not maintenance friendly so you have to remove all the old stain to put another coat on versus a stain that would allow for a light cleaning and a recoat with the same stain.

Edited June 7, 2009 by bigchaz

[acegot 14]

Mike, Its probably to late, but after sanding you can switch brands.

[RPetry 564]

Just completed the sanding.....

About 3 hours total with my Ridgid ROS....60 grit, as RPetry suggested. Used 2 sanding discs for whole deck. About 290 sq ft total of decking.

Got rid of a lot of leftover that the cleaning didn't get......

The sanding also gave me a chance to sand down some problem areas, i.e. areas where the boards had checked/splintered a bit.

Now, to go mow the grass.....

Gonna stain with the Penofin for Hardwoods in the early evening, after the sun has passed over the house, and the deck is in the shade.

Quick question:

Now that I have cleaned twice, brightened once, then sanded the whole thing......is there any Penofin stain left in the wood?

If I wanted to, could I go to a different brand stain at this point?

I was considering the DEFY for Hardwoods....I can get it locally. Opinions?

Pictures attached.

Thanks for the help.

Mike,

I think you did a terrific job, your ipe' looks great. Need employment for the summer in NJ?

The attached 2 pics are of an ipe', mahogany, and cedar job we finished prepping and sanding this morning. Penofin and some foul solid SW Deckscapes was stripped from the wood. The pics are the ipe' floor after a light RO 60 grit sanding.

Have never used Penofin, but this subject came up the other day on another board. Not sure if non-members can view, but here is the link:

Pennofin woes

Curious, I went to the Penofin website page for their "Hardwood" stain and found the following instructions verbatim:

Maintenance

A maintenance coat of Hardwood Finish should be applied within 3-6 months after the initial application or as soon as oil looks depleted. The next maintenance coat should be done again in approximately 10-12 months or whenever oil looks depleted. Over time, the wood fibers become fully protected and the maintenance will become less frequent.

In Penofin's own words using their stain, hardwoods should be cleaned and stained three separate times in the first year!

How many consumers or contractors are following that costly and rigorous schedule?

There is no reason why your ipe' cannot wait a week or more before staining. Just blow off and go. We will be staining the deck in the picture with Ready Seal medium red.

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Well, I used Penofin again....

To my surprise, the wood soaked up a lot more than in had the past two years. I used the whole gallon. Usually I had a little left over.

Maybe it was the chemicals opening up the wood.....or maybe it was the sanding...I dunno.

I like the way it looks though....and so does my wife...everyones happy.

I think at the end of the season....sometime in late August, early September, I may clean the deck with a Dawn/bleach and water solution, then put on a quick maintenance coat. to see how it does over the winter....

Pics of the finished product attached.

thanks for everyone's help.

mm

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Mike,

I think you did a terrific job, your ipe' looks great. Need employment for the summer in NJ?

The attached 2 pics are of an ipe', mahogany, and cedar job we finished prepping and sanding this morning. Penofin and some foul solid SW Deckscapes was stripped from the wood. The pics are the ipe' floor after a light RO 60 grit sanding.

Have never used Penofin, but this subject came up the other day on another board. Not sure if non-members can view, but here is the link:

Pennofin woes

Curious, I went to the Penofin website page for their "Hardwood" stain and found the following instructions verbatim:

Maintenance

A maintenance coat of Hardwood Finish should be applied within 3-6 months after the initial application or as soon as oil looks depleted. The next maintenance coat should be done again in approximately 10-12 months or whenever oil looks depleted. Over time, the wood fibers become fully protected and the maintenance will become less frequent.

In Penofin's own words using their stain, hardwoods should be cleaned and stained three separate times in the first year!

How many consumers or contractors are following that costly and rigorous schedule?

There is no reason why your ipe' cannot wait a week or more before staining. Just blow off and go. We will be staining the deck in the picture with Ready Seal medium red.

Summer deckwork in NJ, eh??? Thanks for the compliment....and the job offer....but I when I drive down to Jersey, I head to LBI for sun and relaxation.

My deck was enough.....ha!

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

My responses in blue;

Good luck and let us know if you have any further questions.

Rod!~

Rod --

Thanks for responding......to each question.....

Didnt know about the strainers for the garden sprayers....very helpful!

thanks.

mm

[PressurePros 248]

Mike, great job.. a true labor of love. Enjoy your summer.

[mrmichaeljmoore 14]

Mike, great job.. a true labor of love. Enjoy your summer.

Thanks!

[plainpainter 217]

hey keep posting pics as the season progresses - like 3 months, 6 months, when you recoat, before and after dawn/bleach wash, etc. I think this is an interesting thread - you got some professional results going now. And the wood has been 'seasoned' with prior coatings in the past and this restoration - so the pores have opened up. This should be a really good test for the penofin product - and what's it's capabilities are.

[RPetry 564]

...

Pics of the finished product attached.

thanks for everyone's help.

mm

Mike,

That is the nicest looking homeowner staining on a hardwood that I have seen. Consumers often do not prep correctly and tend to over apply stain on ipe', resulting in a blotchy finish. Congrats, fine job!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sweet!!!!

Beth

[Bryan C 14]

Nice job Mike. Looks beautiful. You applied it perfectly - I was also hoping that you wouldn't get the splotchy look with over application...

[bigchaz 157]

Here's the ten thousand dollar question....how many hours did you put into the deck?