sealed, cleaned, and new wood

[sturgisjr 14]

Okay, I am bidding on a job in which the homeowner has used a pressure washer to remove previous dark (unknown) stain. He got most of it off but only used a consumer grade product. He also has a section that he did not have the time to do. And lastly, he had the whole front porch that connects to the deck redone so its all new wood.

I should use HD-80 on the section he has not touched yet, 1/2 strength on the rest of the deck or EFC-38? Also, do I clean the new wood before I proceed to seal the whole deck/porch combo?

Also, Im looking around for good sealers and semi-transparents. I will be using Olympic Maximum Redwood on his pressure treated deck. Is that a good choice.

As much as Id like to try Wood Tux or Ready Seal, I would prefer to use something I can get locally to save on shipping charges. I have available the following in my area...Olympic Maximum and Olympic semi-transparents, Cabots, DeckScapes, and Wolmans FP/DuraStain. Which one would you reccommend that I offer to my customers. Im sure its a matter of preference, but I am in this to give satisfying results to my customers.

Thanks.

[Everett Abrams 501]

Generally, if you are using a stripper(and brightening) on the deck you would use it on the entire deck to keep the project as a whole consistent. With that being said there are exceptions like when you have an addition to a deck of new wood. I am sure Beth will comment about the chems you listed. In my opinion Cabot's is the best of the list you provided.

[Firedkm 14]

On the new section of wood you may not have to clean it. Did you do a splash test and the new wood to see if the water beaded up or was absorb into the wood? If it beaded you will have to clean it to remove the mill glaze. The other consideration is the visual apperance to you. If it looks dirty or you are unsure just clean it to be safe.

As far as sealer goes, Cabots has been rated number one for the last several years in consumer reports. I used the Olympic Maxium Redwood on a deck this year and was not that happy with it. Others have used this product and rave about it. I just dont like it myself. If I was to use an over-the-counter product I would go with Cabots.

Ready Seal is a great product because its so goof proof but I hate doing two coats. I have and still do use it.

Wood Tux has great color retention and its a one coat coverage like Cabots is and is almost as goof proof as Ready Seal.

If I had the choice from all the above I would go with the California Redwood Wood Tux for this deck. Its a little more red in color than the Olympic your planning on using but its the closest match.

As far as shipping and having it at your door step its probally about the same amount as the time you have just going to the store to get it. Besides, the customer is paying for it not you. I used the same excuse as you are using. I did not want to pay for the shipping but then realized I am not the customer is.

Good Luck

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I agree with Ev, but will say that I would suggest using the HD on the brand new wood at 2-3 oz per gal, not as high as half strenth. Where you are stripping you should go a little stronger. Make sure to neutralize everything so it brightens nicely throughout.

If you are sticking sealers you can buy in a store, I would suggest Cabot or Sikkens SRD (not DEK) as a first choice and Wolman F&P as a backup if you can't find either of the first two.

Beth

[Paul B. 523]

Also don't forget, that in addition to your running around time, you also pay sales tax when you purchase locally. Even without counting your time, by the time you add up mileage at $0.375 per mile and sales tax there is not a lot of difference in cost. And when you buy thru the mail... ...it's delivered to your shop or front door.

(Note: If your mail purchasing and your in the same state you still have to pay sales tax.)

[sturgisjr 14]

Another sealer available to me locally is Superdeck... How does that compare with Cabots and Sikkens. The closest Sikkens dealer is about 40 miles away. I can get Cabots and Superdeck only 4 miles from here.

[sturgisjr 14]

Would I want to be offering Decking Stain from Cabots and/or Clear Solution? The Clear Solution comes in 5 colors I think. Comments?

[Firedkm 14]

Would I want to be offering Decking Stain from Cabots and/or Clear Solution? The Clear Solution comes in 5 colors I think. Comments?

The clear solution if fine if you want a just a clear, with that said dont use the ones with a color. Clear solution is a Cabots product and the clear works fine. I used there weather gray last year, WHAT A MISTAKE. It looked horrible and I would not want it on my deck.

Last year Everett and I were traveling together to Beths roundtable. I started to tell him about I deck that I had a problem with. Of course the customer was unhappy too. I told hom I used the clear solution and before I could tell him the color, he knew it. He stated "I bet you used the weather gray!" He had the samew problem and the other contractor (Jeff) who was with us said he had the same problem too.

It looked very blotchy and uneven looking. Just a word of caution.

[Everett Abrams 501]

I will add that the Cabot Australian Timber Oil, Natural Tone is MUCH better than their 3000 Series Natural. More costly but well worth it in the end, as far as naturals go. I do use this on softwoods as well and have had great success with the outcome.

[sturgisjr 14]

So far most of the decks around here are pressure treated pine. I want to know which sealers would really bring out a nice look to this kind of wood. Most examples I see are done on Cedar.

Dale-when you used the Olympic Maximum Redwood on the deck you did, was it pressure treated pine? Is it the redwood that doesnt really turn out good? What about the other colors?

Wolmans F&P seems like a good option but I just wonder how nice the colors turn out on this kind of wood.

Beth-I got the Wood Tux samples from you and will try them on some Pressure Treated pine scraps. If they are to my satifaction and would like to offer them to my customers, how long will it take to have an order of Wood Tux arrive to me?

Further on Cabots, I am assuming that Decking Stain is the way to go and it does well on Pressure Treated Pine? So far, Cabots seems to be the most confusing...there are so many options and I want to make sure I use the appropriate product.

Do I want to avoid offering solids or acrylic or latex based stains/paints to my customers? Im trying to narrow down my choices that I can provide as well as understand what each one does/performs and how they compare to others. Basically, Im looking for the best solution for the majority of the kind of wood around here...pressure treated pine.

Additional comments will be greatly appreciated.

Brian

[Firedkm 14]

Brian it was on a cedar deck. I just did a pressure treated deck yesterday with the Honey Gold Wood Tux. It look really good and the customer thought the deck looked brand new. I am going back tommorrow to finish the lattice work at the bottom of the deck. I will take pictures then.

I would not use a solid color on a deck floor unless the deck was previsouly done in a solid. I have done two tone decks where the railing was a solid. The only thing that stinks about using a solid is most are a two coat process and some like cabot is three. Cabots you need a primer and then two coats of a solid(this is on bare wood that has never been done in a solid before).

The deck below is a cedar deck with Cabots clear solution natural on the floor and Cabots white in the railings.

[Paul B. 523]

Here is one of 3 we did for a customer - this a 57 foot porch on a garage.

The white is Cabot (oil primer and 2 top coats latex with Teflon) and floor is Ready Seal "Medium Brown".

You can get by with 1 top coat if the primer does not soak in too much like on softer wood, but then they dont guarantee it for over 10 years (I believe it's 13 years).

[Paul B. 523]

This is a rear porch/deck with Cabot's oil primer. The columns are soft wood and soaked in the primer.

The columns were also a pain in the rear because they are butted right up to to the brick. (pun intended)

[Everett Abrams 501]

I have found that when using the Cabot White and using the Problem Solver Primer that you always need a third coat. I figure that in my estimate, does really hold up well though. Great pics guys!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Brian,

Allow a week for shipping.

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Cabot now has a 1600 series solid decking stain that they claim is a one coat wonder. I used the product on a deck earlier this spring and am initially impressed. The stuff is thick as molasses with a very high solid content and dries to an almost epoxy like finish. Cleaned the lines of my airless with 2 gals. of mineral spirits and had to throw the mineral spirits out, there was so much solid content in solution, similar to grains of sand.

I'm curious on the lifetime of the stain and will check next spring.

[Chappy 138]

I was just talking to the local cabot dealer who said you did not need to prime with the solid stain. who is right. and why.

[RPetry 564]

Jon,

As far as I know, this is a new Cabot solid just on the market this year. Their specs state that it is a one coat, no primer product.

Go to http://www.cabotstain.com/pdf/tds/1600_tds.pdf for more info.

[staudend 14]

Does anyone have an opinion on Deckscapes, formerly Cuprinol? I have used the oil-based wood toners with good results, but was wondering about it's longevity.

[Firedkm 14]

Nice work Paul. I love the looks of two tone decks, but I sure do hate doing them!:nerd:

[Aplus 525]

Sears Weathbeater has worked very well for me for two tones. Here's pics from a job we did in 02', on a two year maintenance plan. We only stripped the floor, which was only supposed to be a wash with efc-38, but apparently it was a tad too strong and removed most of the old rs-light brown. The solid stain on the railing system was nearly 100% intact, except for some spots at ground level that were sliced with a string trimmer.

This shows that less expensive stains can deliver satisfactory results if the surface preparation is done correctly. I'm expecting to have to recoat the railing at the four year interval, which should be on par with Cabots, which costs over twice as much.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

EFC will do that if it is too strong on an oil based product. Have seen it do that on F&P as well.... The upside is, you don't have to use SH to strip if you need to strip and know what's on the wood, the down side is....whoooops....was a tad strong.

Tony, it looks great!

[Paul B. 523]

I wish ours was as clean as Tony's. - Nice job Tony!

With the boards running perpendicular to the garage, the ends are showing to the outside. All the spindles are attached to the face of the deck instead to support bars running between posts. The customer wanted the board ends white. Majority of the board ends had to be sanded on the top as even with masking the stain/paint seeped. Then of course, most of the spindles were right up against the boards or very small gaps, so when your doing the inside, the paint seeps up.

Looking back, it would have been quicker to unscrew all the spindles, tag them with numbers and take them down to the shop to have them all done there.

Tony,

I think the difference is that the Cabot with primer and 2 top coats is likely to last over 10 years. I've seen some railings where the finish was chipping and peeling after 1, 2, 3 years due to improper prep work and also due to lack of primer.

The contractor price is decent (35% discount) on the Cabot and I can go tax exempt on the materials there. I can't go tax exempt at Sears on materials so by the time you add tax, the Weatherbeater is more expensive per gallon.

The oil based primer does not go very far and takes time but the latex topcoat (if hand applied on top of the primer) will get you 500-600 plus sq ft per gallon (and goes pretty fast - especially the second coat). The Teflon in the topcoat makes it a very tough finish.

Overall, the material cost with Cabot's is relatively very good (that's including the contractor pricing, no sales tax, and the top-coat coverage rate).

I'd say we were at about $55 (for Cabot cost) on the columns, railing, board edges and deck face.

[James 624]

not bad tony

[sturgisjr 14]

All of your responses have been really helpful. I have learned a few things from y'all.

I wanted to share that I am right now using Olympic Maximum Honey Gold on a deck and I have to say I am quite impressed. Coverage was excellent and it looks better than new. To add to this - I was able to compare Wood Tux warm honey gold with Olympic Maximum honey gold and they were like almost identical with coverage and color. What I am trying to do here is compare quality and durabilty. The Maximum guarantees 3 years and I know Wood Tux has high praises. Is there something I am missing?

As I have stated earlier, on another deck, the customer is asking for redwood. I offered Olympic Maximum in this color, but now I am not so sure. I was thinking if Olympics honey gold and Wood Tux's warm honey gold were very similar, the redwood would be too? Dale- when you said you werent happy with it, why was that? I am still trying to figure out Cabots. What I learned is I shouldnt go with Cabots tinted clear solution and should only use that if its a clear only. I have a gallon of Wolmans F&P redwood that I can try.

Why would I choose one product over the other? Like I said... Am I missing something here? I am hestitant to use Wolman F&P because its linseed oil based...and I hear many things that its not really a good product, but I hear that as much as I hear that its recommended.

Well, Here I am listening to myself think. Forgive me, I am new in this field and have learned a magnitude in such a short time. Any direction into the way I should go would be appreciated.

Beth-when I looked at your store to check WoodTux California Redwood, it says that you may not have the quantities I am requesting available and would really hate to have it back-ordered (I know you said to give about a week, but I wanted to double check) I am still waiting on one more product from you that has been back-ordered.

Thank you all!

Brian

[Firedkm 14]

Brian,

I used the redwood color of the Olympic and just was not thrilled with the color retention. Using the product was fine and not hard to apply. I just was not thrilled with how the color looked after it was applied. It may have been the sun that day when I applied it. It was in the direct sunlight but itr was only in the 80's that day.