Staining my deck

[JFife 14]

Okay, I've been staining my deck the last few years and posting pics on various sites, showing the wear and tear, etc. and critiquiing the products I've used. Thus far it has been:

1) 2005: Sikkens SRD

2) 2008: Woodrich TimberOil

3) Spring '09: Defy Epoxy

Don't like the SRD, timberoil was a little better but at the 9 month point had faded significantly and was getting mold, DEFY doesn't look bad for 5 months. Getting mold in some areas, I'd guess that by spring it will have lost most of it's luster.

My goal is to find something that is still lustrous after one full year.

Anyways, I am putting on a new deck floor/handrails next week. I am wanting to finish it asap so that I can attempt to slow the warping/cracking of the PTP. I realize this will reduce the stain durability.

So what do people want to see??? I'll give a realistic analysis, critique, etc. I'm thinking Baker's, just because I have far more confidence in the TWP line of products than any other stain. But I am open to suggestions if several people on here would like to see a certain product applied, as I can continuously offer pics, etc. to detail the durability.

Thoughts? Oh yeah, I'm willing to do the deck half/half with two different products if the colors match ok.

[RPetry 564]

Jon,

Don't have a clue about Sikkens SRD, aside from the fact that we have to strip Cetol off ipe' and cedar later this week.

The only time we used ESI's Timber Oil was when Russell shipped us 10 gals. out of the blue at no charge. Gave all of it to a needy customer, did not care for the product.

Defy hardwood stain has held up much the best in testing on my own ipe' deck, not sure of performance on softwoods or how to maintain.

Never used or have seen Baker's, its a paraffin oil with, I would guess, clay pigments. Shane use to post a lot of terrific pictures. AFAIK, it is not 250 g/l VOC compliant and they may have to change the stain next year to stay in business.

[JamieP 14]

Bakers vs Ready Seal

[PressurePros 249]

Baker's vs Armstrong. A Color match would be Super Cedar Gold and Cedar semi trans for the Armstrong.

[PressurePros 249]

Bakers vs Ready Seal

Two different types of products. Baker's blows away RS. Like Rick mentioned, it is not VOC compliant though.

[RPetry 564]

... Baker's blows away RS. ...

Ken,

Hmmm... We have been in the wood restoration business probably as long, if not longer, than PressurePro's. We have RS customers that have been with us for 8 years now. Unless you like the opaque look of clay pigments, care to elucidate why?

[PressurePros 249]

I dunno, I've tried them all, Rick. RS looks dirty and oily to me (my work, not judging anyone else's). I also am tainted by a bad experience with ready seal. The closest I ever came to having an insurance claim was a deck with RS that bled onto teenage feet having a pool party. Footprints were transferred onto very expensive wool Berber carpet. A week later I was called by another customer that had ruined their shorts sitting on a RS stained bench weeks after it had been completed. Alright, I was over applying. Started putting on less and a couple of customers called me to say the stain washed off their deck. I went back and sure enough the deck looked like all the stain had been absorbed. The irony of it being called goof proof is that I found it to be the hardest stain to work with.

Its just not for me, Rick. I've talked to a ton of contractors. Many feel the same as I do. Many people that I respect including you and Jim swear by it. I guess we all have our choice of products and personal reasons why we like them.

Rick, without completely stealing the thread, how would you rate the opaqueness of the picture below? I ask because I may not have the right definition of an opaque product. I don't find the beauty of the wood to be obscured in any way.

Edited September 15, 2009 by PressurePros

[Adrian 155]

Isn't Bakers and Rs made by two brothers here in Tx.? Little variations on each formula.

They compete with each or had a falling out between them? Or something to that effect.

I have used both, and RS seems to last longer. Especially at the marinas where I have customers.

I had to re-do a deck stained with Bakers over a lake within 6 months one time. Shane absorbed the cost as Bakers rep. My customer wasn't happy and hasn't called back since.

BUT.... I hear ya Ken.

I have used RS ever since. Distributor is the best I've ever had and they keep a pretty generous supply on hand.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

Sorry to hear of your past troubles with Ready Seal. Honestly, in the 8 years we have been using the stain, one call back for more stain (actually that was ESI's Timber Oil) and no clothing claims or carpet damage. We do stipulate in the contracts and enforce with a final email not to walk on the decks for 48 hours.

Not that you will damage the finish, but God forbid someone tracks oil into the house or onto their blue stone patio.

The picture posted above is definitely a true semi-trans oil. The pictures that BDA Texas Shane use to post with Baker's was way more opaque, close to an A-C semi solid.

[PressurePros 249]

You know its weird, Rick. Shane's pictures were either doctored, his camera was strange, the wood in Texas is different that the wood here, or those pictures were the 3rd or 4th maintenance treatment. I have never had the experience with Baker's being opaque. That pic above is two fairly heavy applications of Bakers Super Cedar dark mixed 50/50 with Super Cedar applied hours apart.

[PressurePros 249]

Adrian, I know Baker's is actually a TWP formula. I think they just add pigment and spirits to it. I never heard the brothers thing. Where did you hear that?

[plainpainter 217]

I look at that pic, Ken, and that is not a true semi imo - that's more of a transparent/toner like stain. On a sidenote - I always kind of dug the semi-opaqueness of Shane's photos. I am a big fan of A.C. semisolid for that reason. And it helps in a big way hide loads of blemishes - I have many 10+ year old neglected decks that will never truly look great with a transparent finish.

[RPetry 564]

Ken,

Gottcha'. Shane use to post a ton of pictures and that opaque look still sticks with me.

Never have used Baker's, no opinion aside from Shane's pics. At least it is paraffin oil based!

[RPetry 564]

... - I have many 10+ year old neglected decks that will never truly look great with a transparent finish.

Daniel,

Not true. If the wood is prepped correctly and enough stain is applied correctly, old, beat up PT wood can look fine.

Case in point. 22 yr. old pressure treated, townhouse deck. Full sun, never maintained, and I know. This is a close neighbor. See attached picture.

[JFife 14]

That last pic is the exact reason I can't use RS anymore. Clients would come out and offer a slight smile and dryly say, "oh. Great. Looks nice." The appearance is just too drab. In Rick's pic, a few of the vertical highlights look decent. But look at the steps. If that had been stained with TWP, it would be vibrant. No idea on A/C, not much experience with it.

[plainpainter 217]

Rick - that wood is in beautiful shape. We have these kettle ponds up here in New England, basically holes reamed out of the ground by glaciers and are up to 100 feet deep. The decks I do look like they have been submerged for 10 years in one of these slimy algae ridden kettle pond things.

Here is the average disaster I have to deal with - and this is after pressure washing with F-18 and no prior stain ever! Even after going over this thing with a floor sander - they still never look great. Semisolids have become my new friend!

[PressurePros 249]

I look at that pic, Ken, and that is not a true semi imo - that's more of a transparent/toner like stain. On a sidenote - I always kind of dug the semi-opaqueness of Shane's photos. I am a big fan of A.C. semisolid for that reason. And it helps in a big way hide loads of blemishes - I have many 10+ year old neglected decks that will never truly look great with a transparent finish.

Dan, go back and look at your decks. This is what they look like after a few weeks and the product settles in. This is A/C semi trans cedar. I think most contractors underapply stain. I was on this deck. The rails were sprayed to the point of dripping and it was all backbrushed and another coat was applied. I purposely went back to take this picture to see if the extra coat made a difference. This was tore up pressure treated wood that was left untreated for 6 years. You gotta be good at prepping ;)

PS: The semi solid would not be much deeper in tone. I'll get you a pic of a little landing we did with it. It looks just like this. It is rock solid protected, there is plenty of pigment in there.

[JFife 14]

So is everyone up for a Baker/TWP shootout versus Readyseal??? :)

Anyone have a gal or two of RS they can send me? Prob would want dark red or med red. For Bakers/TWP I'll either use the SuperCedar or the TWP Rustic.

Sound like a plan, Rick? Rick, tell me the exact prep standard and app standard you want me to use on the RS half. It will be new treated wood, aged about 2-4 weeks. Let me know the EXACT app standard you want me to follow. Will have to be applied by either brush or roll...can't spray. Need to know:

Heaviness of coat.

Time between coats.

Wipe off?

Back brush?

Basically, tell me the most perfect way you want me to do it, and that's what I'll do.

For the TWP side, I'll apply wet-on-wet coats within 10min of app, back-brushed.

Anyone have any other parameters they want me to follow?

Keep in mind, this is a deck with three sides of rails. Do you want the RS half nearer the wall, or nearer the exterior rails? The deck gets 100% sun all day, no coverage anywhere near it.

Rick, as the RS ambassador, I'll follow any suggestions you may have.

[Adrian 155]

Adrian, I know Baker's is actually a TWP formula. I think they just add pigment and spirits to it. I never heard the brothers thing. Where did you hear that?

Maybe it was Shane that told me.

Family owned then a spat then a split. Now compete.

It's been a while, but knew there was a plant to manufacture it in Plano or Lewisville.

Either way, I have worked with Shane before and he has a keen sense for blending colors as well. I don't think he doctored the pictures. He may have. But I don't think so.

He had a real professional camera that he tried to sell to me a one point, but it was out of my price range. It was a Canon. Not your regular digi cam. He likes to take the shots while it is still wet. That makes a big difference in the final "dried" result for a pic, as well as the overall outcome of the project itself.

RS has a "glow" not a "glare"

I have found neither on Bakers.

Funny because if it is the same ( or close) they should produce the same ( or close ) results

For the record, Shane has given me a few decks in my area that had failed bakers on it and he simply didn't want the projects.

I'm greatful for the work he gave a couple of yrs. ago, but those decks have RS on them now and have not had call backs at all.

I have always felt that the our wood ( south westish) varies from the northern wood even if it is the same species. Just different weather all the way around.

Some of the "Fancy" stains just don't hold up to the Texas heat at all.

But hey, whatever works for you is what works.

[Adrian 155]

So is everyone up for a Baker/TWP shootout versus Readyseal??? :)

Anyone have a gal or two of RS they can send me? Prob would want dark red or med red. For Bakers/TWP I'll either use the SuperCedar or the TWP Rustic.

Sound like a plan, Rick? Rick, tell me the exact prep standard and app standard you want me to use on the RS half. It will be new treated wood, aged about 2-4 weeks. Let me know the EXACT app standard you want me to follow. Will have to be applied by either brush or roll...can't spray. Need to know:

Heaviness of coat.

Time between coats.

Wipe off?

Back brush?

Basically, tell me the most perfect way you want me to do it, and that's what I'll do.

For the TWP side, I'll apply wet-on-wet coats within 10min of app, back-brushed.

Anyone have any other parameters they want me to follow?

Keep in mind, this is a deck with three sides of rails. Do you want the RS half nearer the wall, or nearer the exterior rails? The deck gets 100% sun all day, no coverage anywhere near it.

Rick, as the RS ambassador, I'll follow any suggestions you may have.

I was just going to suggest that.

[plainpainter 217]

While you guys have your stain shoot out - I am going to have a bandit sign and marketing shoot out with my competition. Life must be really good for you guys right now.

[JFife 14]

Isn't Bakers and Rs made by two brothers here in Tx.? Little variations on each formula.

They compete with each or had a falling out between them? Or something to that effect.

I have used both, and RS seems to last longer. Especially at the marinas where I have customers.

I had to re-do a deck stained with Bakers over a lake within 6 months one time. Shane absorbed the cost as Bakers rep. My customer wasn't happy and hasn't called back since.

BUT.... I hear ya Ken.

I have used RS ever since. Distributor is the best I've ever had and they keep a pretty generous supply on hand.

Adrian,

Do you still deal with Shane? If so, please ask him to get in touch with me.

I'm not sure about the brother thing. But the products--with the exception of the oil--aren't that similar. One has copper, one has zinc. One has spirits, the other doesn't. One gets 150 square feet per gallon, the other gets 150 square inches per gallon (JUST KIDDING!!!!:D)

If I were starting with ALL NEW DECKS/FENCES, I'd be tempted to use RS.

Truly, RS is about the best distributor I've ever worked with.

[RPetry 564]

Jon,

You are a hoot. Look, I'm no Ready Seal ambassador or distributor. Could care less how much stain they sell, as long as they keep in business. And they have been around a lot longer than my little operation.

Tell you what. I'll call tomorrow and see if I can get a few gallons of RS stain shipped to you at no charge. Email me your address. Your deck is pressure treated, I would suggest medium red, by far my most popular color.

For prep, you have to strip off the Defy, Timber Oil, or whatever is on or in the wood. A true strip, not a pigment strip. Rinse well and apply 6 to 8 oz. a gallon of powdered oxalic or citric, whatever you have in stock. Don't rinse the acid off.

Make sure the wood is dry, if you have a moisture meter, 12% or less is ideal. Slop on some RS stain. HLVP, truck brush, or hand wise with natural bristle brushes. I mean really slop it on, as much as the PT wood will take within 10 or 15 minutes.

Hit the wood the next day with a decent app of RS oil once again. Relax, drink beer, and watch NFL football.

If you are serious, email your shipping address.

[JFife 14]

Jon,

You are a hoot. Look, I'm no Ready Seal ambassador or distributor. Could care less how much stain they sell, as long as they keep in business. And they have been around a lot longer than my little operation.

Hahaha, I thought ud like!!:D

Tell you what. I'll call tomorrow and see if I can get a few gallons of RS stain shipped to you at no charge. Email me your address. Your deck is pressure treated, I would suggest medium red, by far my most popular color.

Thanks, but I hate to do that. If I were truly testing for potential use, I'd do it. But I've used the product before. Maybe one of you guys can sent me a gal or two. Or maybe Plainpainter will let loose of his bulging wallet and just buy/send me a couple gal.

For prep, you have to strip off the Defy, Timber Oil, or whatever is on or in the wood. A true strip, not a pigment strip. Rinse well and apply 6 to 8 oz. a gallon of powdered oxalic or citric, whatever you have in stock. Don't rinse the acid off.

Make sure the wood is dry, if you have a moisture meter, 12% or less is ideal. Slop on some RS stain. HLVP, truck brush, or hand wise with natural bristle brushes. I mean really slop it on, as much as the PT wood will take within 10 or 15 minutes.

This is brand new wood, Rick. So what do you suggest?

Hit the wood the next day with a decent app of RS oil once again. Relax, drink beer, and watch NFL football.

If you are serious, email your shipping address.

Yeah, I'm going to do it. Will be fun. One thing though---you said come back the next day. I want to make this an "in the field" experiment. Do you come back a 2nd time to stain? Or do you do two coats on the spot?

[plainpainter 217]

Any stain where I would have to come a following day for the 2nd coat of application is enough for me never to consider using it. I'd rather charge 30% less for my work and schedule in a 2nd customer on the second day - I'd still make 140% over the previous coming back a 2nd day to stain.

[RPetry 564]

... Thanks, but I hate to do that. If I were truly testing for potential use, I'd do it. But I've used the product before. Maybe one of you guys can sent me a gal or two. Or maybe Plainpainter will let loose of his bulging wallet and just buy/send me a couple gal.

Jon,

No problem. If I can't wring a gal. of RS from Peirce, I'll ship and send a gal. of med. red myself.

This is brand new wood, Rick. So what do you suggest?

Sorry Jon, did not catch that. A percarb cleaning, at about 6 oz./gal., with a light wash. Citric at 6 oz. or oxalic at 4 oz. per gal., and no rinse of the acid.

.Yeah, I'm going to do it. Will be fun. One thing though---you said come back the next day. I want to make this an "in the field" experiment. Do you come back a 2nd time to stain? Or do you do two coats on the spot?

Depends. On a fairly hot day with softwoods, with the stain soaking in quickly, we'll take a lunch break and hit the wood again with the 2nd app.

But normally, if the job is local, we'll come back the next morning and apply the 2nd app.