First Deck Troubles.

[Midwest7 14]

I have been lurking on this forum for quite some time and attempted to do my fair amount of research, I know there is much more to learn, and look forward to it. My current setup is much less than desired but with college student budget its what funds will allow. I am running a mobile 4000psi 4gpm coldwash unit that is faucet driven only. I have cleaned a couple concrete walks, driveways and siding at my duplex, all with low pressure and downstreamed 1:10 mix of 6% SH bleach and splash of dawn and had successful results. I plan on purchasing some Simple cherry very soon. but as for now I am only using my resources from local store. Prior to today I had never washed or stained any deck. NOW FOR THE QUESTION

A friend let me use his deck as a test today. I have a local sherwin williams and spoke with the rep today who seemed so so on his knowledge. My goal today was just to wash the deck using rinse on the Pressure washer and then scrubbing with Sherwins deck wash. I applied the deckwash covering the 250sq through a hand pump spray and scrubbed throughly. after letting it set for 15 mins I came back and rinsed off using minimal pressure. I was not satisfied with the results as you will see in the following picutures.

Next step, I went back and spoke with the rep and he suggested Oxalic acid as a bleaching agent. I mixed it as directed to so many scoops per gallon of water and then applied and scrubbed. It defintely lightened the deck but I still have a green and black tint to much of the deck. while I know the deck is still wet I am curious what the end result will be if I apply stain to this deck. I know you can only polish a turd so much and this deck as set untreated for years. IS THERE ANYTHING FURTHER I CAN DO BEFORE APPLYING STAIN? Thank you for any suggestions or help.

Here are several pictures of before and after. for some reason the step brightened way more than the rest of the deck maybe it is just newer.

BEFORE

AFTER RINSE OF DEBRIS

AFTER DECKWASH

AFTER OXALIC ACID MIX

[Midwest7 14]

Another question what would you bid a deck like this? I dont need your exact estimate maybe just rough figuring for your region. Ive read the pricing guide I just want to see different regions and levels of pricing.

[Adrian 155]

Another question what would you bid a deck like this? I dont need your exact estimate maybe just rough figuring for your region. Ive read the pricing guide I just want to see different regions and levels of pricing.

Please go to your "settings" and complete your signature line. House rules.

Welcome to TGS.

[Adrian 155]

oxalic acid is a neutralizer for wood. Yes, it will brighten the wood ( not bleach it).

You used a product from a dist. that you said was so -so with his knowledge. But you still purchased his product.

( and please don't think I am bashing ) but, that deck needs to be stripped and neutralized the right way.

Your after pics still show a build up of mold and algae.

A hydrox bath and brightening with commercial grade products are what needs to be used on that deck ( IMO of course)

But with a light touch. The right chems will get you there.

But , it is a good deck for practice, since you have that options.

Contact some of the vendors from this site and try their products.

I like Sherwin for drop cloths and brushes, but that is about it.

[Adrian 155]

Another question what would you bid a deck like this? I dont need your exact estimate maybe just rough figuring for your region. Ive read the pricing guide I just want to see different regions and levels of pricing.

Well any way you look at it it. It is a small deck that probably won't command more than 6 bills for a full resto.

[Midwest7 14]

I appreciate the advice Adrian, I went ahead and edited my signature sorry about that. while at it, it pushed to to go ahead and purchase my domain name, I think ill do my buddies deck following this fix and have him build me a site.

I completely agree on your comment, I definitely was the sucker who bought from the sales guy for his stuff!!! it was kind of a only option and it was cheap enough I tried it out. lesson learned, I actually started to wonder the DECKWASH from sherwin mentions three ingredients SH (sodium hypoclorite), water and one Im not familar with sodium chloride, so does that mean I pretty much just bought expensive bleach?

I understand what you are saying about the oxalic acid as well like I said I defintely went into this blind it was termed wood bleach but that was just there name for it, it was powder form so it was usable for 4 gallons not there house brand which was twice the price and 1/4 the chemical.

Im going to do further searching inlcuding current vendors, I am not sure I know what you mean when you say Hydrox bath are you referring to chemical application and then brighten as neutralizing?

Is there a temporary over the counter product that you have worked with at all with that I can wash and stain and then allow time for vendors chemicals to ship? sherwin williams had a stripper but I didnt look much into it as you mentioned I like my brushes from them thus far, thats about it. TELESKOPTIC!!!!

Thank you again.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Another question what would you bid a deck like this? I dont need your exact estimate maybe just rough figuring for your region. Ive read the pricing guide I just want to see different regions and levels of pricing.

This is a bad mistake.

Your pricing should be YOUR pricing, not comparable to others.

The reason being is that it should reflect your actual business costs in order to stay profitable.

Here is a link for you...

http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/business-topics-tips/18253-building-your-own-price.html

Rod!~

[bigchaz 157]

Power Wash KC, in addition to all the advice listed above:

Your machine is actually fine, 4gpm is what we use and is sufficient IMO for decks.

The Hydrox Adrian is referring to is Hyrdroxide, a deck stripper used to remove old stains, or good for particurally dirty wood. We use TimberPro products availalbe at www.deckguide.com. There are numerous others if you click the banners on the top of the forum. (TheSealerStore, etc)

When you are pressure washing the wood, be careful to make even continuous sweeps across a deck board. You dont want to stop, backtrack, or reverse direction in the middle of a board when pressure washing it. Thats what gives you those marks in picture 4

[acegot 14]

Power Wash KC, in addition to all the advice listed above:

Your machine is actually fine, 4gpm is what we use and is sufficient IMO for decks.

The Hydrox Adrian is referring to is Hyrdroxide, a deck stripper used to remove old stains, or good for particurally dirty wood. We use TimberPro products availalbe at www.deckguide.com. There are numerous others if you click the banners on the top of the forum. (TheSealerStore, etc)

When you are pressure washing the wood, be careful to make even continuous sweeps across a deck board. You dont want to stop, backtrack, or reverse direction in the middle of a board when pressure washing it. Thats what gives you those marks in picture 4

What he said!

[John Orr 206]

When using a pwer on a deck, think of painting a car. Sweep in, steady across the surface, sweep out at the end. Personally, I find that trying to walk the length of a deck while trying to maintain an even spray pattern way too tiring. I usually wash about 6 to 8 feet at a time and never leave lap marks. If you happen to come across lap marks left by others, a cross grain motion over the mark, starting well away from the board, will help to even-out the mark. Be careful or you will add a mark of your own! Practice, practice, practice.

[Midwest7 14]

When using a pwer on a deck, think of painting a car. Sweep in, steady across the surface, sweep out at the end. Personally, I find that trying to walk the length of a deck while trying to maintain an even spray pattern way too tiring. I usually wash about 6 to 8 feet at a time and never leave lap marks. If you happen to come across lap marks left by others, a cross grain motion over the mark, starting well away from the board, will help to even-out the mark. Be careful or you will add a mark of your own! Practice, practice, practice.

Everyone thank you with all your help, everything to me is taken as constructive criticism. I definitely learned alot being this was my first rodeo. I have looked at several different products and I will be ordering something shortly. This morning the deck was quite a bit brighter, while I agree completely that it needed to be stripped and rewashed, my friend thought it was just fine commented its only going to have beer spilt on it and due to rain in the near forecast he asked me to go ahead and stain it. The following pictures are what this morning looked like untouched and then following stain. for stain I used semi transparent not tinted from sherwin williams not my preferred choice of color but its growing on me.

what route do many of you prefer or find the most effective when applying. I used a roller and then came back over with brush section by section I would have liked to perfect my edges and drips little better, I have read many pros and cons on sprayers, but im sure its to each his own on opinion. any and all comments are welcome.

Ironically the neighbor asked me to strip and stain theres this week, so a test job picked me up another one! I mentioned I was just starting and she seemed pleased with this deck and showed no concern. I will soon be posting the next project.

In regards to pricing, my curiosity was not related to what I wanted to charge based of others here I was just curious what others would have charged on something small like this... I didnt know if many have a intial set up fee for smaller projects.

THIS MORNING FULLY DRIED

SHORTLY AFTER COMPLETION

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Looking good!

And yes, all your time is money....set up time counts and minimums should be established.

Beth

[CBhaydare 14]

It looks a 100 times better than it did to me, and for your first one!

I haven't tried doing any decks yet, going to practice on my own porch/deck. There is some good helpful info here from all the guy's on the forum.

Looks like your off to a good start man, and getting jobs off of your test deck!

Good Luck!

[Midwest7 14]

It looks a 100 times better than it did to me, and for your first one!

I haven't tried doing any decks yet, going to practice on my own porch/deck. There is some good helpful info here from all the guy's on the forum.

Looks like your off to a good start man, and getting jobs off of your test deck!

Good Luck!

you'd be amazed how many people come out of the wood works when you offer to stain a deck at cost. It worked out well I told my buddy to cover all supplies, which included stain, wash chem, gas, brushes, sweet extension and tape. I went through one full gallon and had to crack the second one on the last portion of the deck, $30 for like 3 boards! damn... I told him $95 which I still came up little short, and believe you me when I was brushing I was thinking MAN THIS SUCKS, I'm paying to stain this! haha, the next job Im going to probably price it $1.00 sq ft and just work my way up from there.

As a college student I've commented to building this business over the summer I cant justify working for the local pizza place only to walk away with maybe $250 at the end of the week full time!

[RPetry 564]

Keith,

Very nice job for a first timer, especially as the wood was stripped. Watch it, that was how I fell into the business. Did my deck, then the neighbor, then the neighborhood, ... Nine years later, still working wood.

That job would fall under our minimum, ie: $500 plus material costs.

[Midwest7 14]

Keith,

Very nice job for a first timer, especially as the wood was stripped. Watch it, that was how I fell into the business. Did my deck, then the neighbor, then the neighborhood, ... Nine years later, still working wood.

That job would fall under our minimum, ie: $500 plus material costs.

Well crap, sounds like I need to send him the second half of his bill! Lol

[bigchaz 157]

Keith, looks great, the important thing is you have learned the process for prepping, and you will certainly perfect it as you go along. The cleaning/pressure washing/brightening three step process is important.

Staining a deck like that, although we normally spray I would just brush it. We use a large truck brush (10 inches i think), (the kind you can wash your car with) and apply stain with that. No bending, just dip the truck brush in the stain and work it in. Its better than rolling since it has bristles and gets in the cracks of the wood between the boards. And then you can cut in by hand around the house.

Like Rick, we have a 500 dollar minimum charge, only difference is materials are included.

[Midwest7 14]

Keith, looks great, the important thing is you have learned the process for prepping, and you will certainly perfect it as you go along. The cleaning/pressure washing/brightening three step process is important.

Staining a deck like that, although we normally spray I would just brush it. We use a large truck brush (10 inches i think), (the kind you can wash your car with) and apply stain with that. No bending, just dip the truck brush in the stain and work it in. Its better than rolling since it has bristles and gets in the cracks of the wood between the boards. And then you can cut in by hand around the house.

Like Rick, we have a 500 dollar minimum charge, only difference is materials are included.

Well crap!!! Haha I knew there had to be a different way to stain I do not have a bad back ... Yet lol, but it never crossed my mind that a big brush would work or was avaliable I'm picking one up asap. I just picked up the neighbors deck again slowly working my way up it's only 168sq with rails and she has stain I'm going to strip and stain for 200. I just ordered f18,8,13, and gutter grenade today from bob as well as delevan pump 5800 for roofs and smaller whisper washer classic.

Thanks again everyone

[Midwest7 14]

apparently I misunderstood this lady who expected the deck done for free?!? I contacted here after looking at the deck told her I'd cut all the weeds around the deck, remove the 20 potted plants and chairs she had, and strip and stain INCLUDING materials and when I told her $200 she was like ummmmm I'll have to think about it and call you back. lol I guess welcome to the business for me huh.

[CBhaydare 14]

you'd be amazed how many people come out of the wood works when you offer to stain a deck at cost. It worked out well I told my buddy to cover all supplies, which included stain, wash chem, gas, brushes, sweet extension and tape. I went through one full gallon and had to crack the second one on the last portion of the deck, $30 for like 3 boards! damn... I told him $95 which I still came up little short, and believe you me when I was brushing I was thinking MAN THIS SUCKS, I'm paying to stain this! haha, the next job Im going to probably price it $1.00 sq ft and just work my way up from there.

As a college student I've commented to building this business over the summer I cant justify working for the local pizza place only to walk away with maybe $250 at the end of the week full time!

I hear ya! I have never worked a food job, always done construction since I was like 15, I'm not cut out for punching a clock.... lol I worked in a pipe shop for like 10 months, day in day out same place same thing, couldn't take it, had to go. Went to work for myself.... Keep it up man!

[CBhaydare 14]

apparently I misunderstood this lady who expected the deck done for free?!? I contacted here after looking at the deck told her I'd cut all the weeds around the deck, remove the 20 potted plants and chairs she had, and strip and stain INCLUDING materials and when I told her $200 she was like ummmmm I'll have to think about it and call you back. lol I guess welcome to the business for me huh.

I know your just starting out and all, but if you were going to do all that for $200 bucks and she wants to call you back...? I wouldn't waste my time... when she calls back tell her well I'm real busy now but I might be able to squeeze you in to my schedule but it will be $400... lol still cheap I think. I had a guy do this to me before.

[Adrian 155]

Not "nit picking" but even 400.00 is not enough to show much of a profit worth counting.

Establish a minimum service fee that covers your expenses so you don't hurt yourself financially.

[Midwest7 14]

Not "nit picking" but even 400.00 is not enough to show much of a profit worth counting.

Establish a minimum service fee that covers your expenses so you don't hurt yourself financially.

I understand completely your said statement and believe me, I will have minimums under different circumstances. The reason from being such a lower price is the problem I run into is Im currently located in a " Divison 2 college town" very small population about 20,000 much older homes very few nice sub divisions,in this area not many care what there property looks like or are looking to invest in it. I am planning on moving to my hometown in Kansas City, following graduation which will be the complete opposite. another unfortunate reason for having to somewhat accept lower prices is, without doing any type of small work im stuck twiddling my thumbs at home losing any possible experience this summer and with not even the slightest profit I have nothing to reinvest in expanding my equipment Inventory.

[Adrian 155]

Right on. I understand completely and respect your desire to learn and earn.

Small populus' with mild spending habits for contractors could be an issue. But, probably not for you.

You might also consider expanding your service area until you get to KC.

Of course you would have to adjust for trip charges and extra this and that but just weave it into your rates and give the customer the final rate.

or

Sell Sell Sell Sell like a crazy man in your immediate area.

..........get some insurance too. Be on the safe side!!!! You don't want a simple small project to turn into a nightmare.

Alot of damage can be done with a pressure washer operated incorrectly. Especially on wood, resi's, and concrete.

Keep up the good work.

[CBhaydare 14]

Not "nit picking" but even 400.00 is not enough to show much of a profit worth counting.

Establish a minimum service fee that covers your expenses so you don't hurt yourself financially.

I agree with you Adrian. I was just giving an example, I just get tired of people when you give them a price they are like ah...... let me call you back on that, they shop your price, and get a guy $10 cheaper or they call you back. I have just made my mind up to double my price for those when they call back, cause I don't want to waste my time, they want to nit pick and get freebies too, Asians are the worst at doing this. "Ah comn man ur my frien you do for free" lol I have heard that a lot on donut shop jobs.

As you said though $400 wouldn't be much of a profit if any at all.

Sorry not trying to thread jack.

[Ronw 14]

Ya that looks better.