First Maintenance Coat

[Tonyg 14]

Ok, I've done a few repeat decks but found that they waited so long that I just did a light strip and recoated. Just did my first real maintenance coat for a customer from last year (http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/wood-cleaning-restoration-decks-fences-etc/19690-my-acrylic-strip-year.html) that wanted to have it recoated and freshened up. This is PT Pine with 2 coats of semi-trans (AC Rustic Brown/Cedar Semi/Natural) applied exactly 12 months ago.

First problem was that the original coat had faded significantly and was dark like it almost seemed to have a mildew (or maybe it was just age?)

Sold them on a house wash since I was going to do the deck too and just down streamed a mix with just Simple Cherry & 1% SH. Let dwell for about 15min or so and ran a deck brush over it lightly. I noticed it looked as though the stain was dissolving as it was dwelling. Used a 2540 soap tip to rinse.

I was very surprised at how much of the stain remained and was very nervous about recoating since I had ordered the Natural to recoat as I had been advised before. I did have a gallon of the original so I was able to add some color but now I am worried that there is only a toner on it (at least more so than last year)

I think I definitely need to re-adjust my expectations and those I am selling to my customers. Did I use the best process and cleaners? should the stain have come up that easy? Do you normally apply the same/original stain, or a lighter version, or just Natural (assuming the AC)?

These are the 1) original finished 12 months ago 2) before cleaning 3) and after cleaning 4) Finish product

Edited May 7, 2011 by Tonyg
Added last picture of finish deck

[Tonyg 14]

Close ups after cleaning

[Tonyg 14]

The first three are before I started - the last was where the planter was after I cleaned it

[Greg R 82]

We were having mixed but similar experiences on some jobs as well. In speaking with Jake and the crew I don't think an answer was ever brought to light but mildew has been an issue on select projects. Your photos don't really appear as mildew to me but more that the color washed and faded out. These were after 1 year?

[bigchaz 157]

Your before pictures of the main deck don't look nearly as gray as the spot where the planter was? Is that a different deck or just angle of the shots making it look like that? Main deck doesn't look gray or mildewed at all just faded.

Your cleaning looks good though...you can run a quick sand on the planter spot to even it out a bit and advise customer to use one of those stands for the pot or a wheeled plate to put it on.

Normally for the maintenance clean I vary based on how the deck held up...we did one that was under trees and it had some pretty bad dirt I just used a light stripper. Otherwise what you did is perfect...if there's still oil in the wood you save on product this time around. Most maintence decks if we don't strip it only takes one light coat and the wood is good again

[Tonyg 14]

12 Months almost to the day. I think I've decided to stay away from the toners in the future after a couple that seemed to wash out after a year. This was in between a semi trans/toner blend.

The deck after cleaning looked like the area around the planter spot. The house wash took off most everything that was left and I wouldn't say there was any/much oil left in the wood.

Should I plan on using the original stain and take the chance on it being darker (since it may wash out with the cleaning) or do you use the Natural? Should I expect that much of the stain to come off when cleaning for maintenance?

Took some pics of the finish today

Edited May 7, 2011 by Tonyg

[bigchaz 157]

I use the same color for maintenance. You're always going to lose some color on the wash so I wouldn't use natural.

[James 624]

That wood does not look preserved. Needs oil. I put a coat of RS first to get more oil in the wood and then top it with AC . I have changed all back to RS except the grey ones I did. To many mildew problems to contend with .

[bigchaz 157]

Jim I think its because he used mostly natural tone versus the original mix that was on there

[Tonyg 14]

Jim, I thought I remember reading somewhere someone using RS on dry wood and then top coat with something else - was that you? Do you use a 'natural' or neutral color for the RS base? Doesn't AC have just as much oils - albeit parrafinic and linseed?

When you say it needs oil are you talking about the finished pics?

Edited May 8, 2011 by Tonyg

[big mike 14]

Tony,

I've played around with RS then AC top coat as well with poor results. The newly stained decks looked great, but failed too quickly. AC as a stand alone is just too unpredictable also, so we are back to RS on ALL jobs that require a semi trans stain. Your deck looks great after cleaning, but it looks like mildew was the problem after the first year. I feel that Linseed oil is the issue (as always). Haven't we gone down this road of looking for the latest and greatest stain, only to be disappointed again and again? Can't say this enough: stick with a product that works, and you know how to use.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

To me it looks like you didn't coat that floor with enough the first time. We had that result until we began to apply a heavy second coat, and then to touch up extra thirsty boards as needed.

I'll also add that the mildew growth we have seen has been on top of, not in or under the AC.

Beth

[Tonyg 14]

To me it looks like you didn't coat that floor with enough the first time. We had that result until we began to apply a heavy second coat, and then to touch up extra thirsty boards as needed.

I'll also add that the mildew growth we have seen has been on top of, not in or under the AC.

Beth

I do like the AC stain. I always try to apply two heavy coats, and actually did on this one. Then had to strip it back off when the old solid was still showing through. After sanding with a drum sander and extra prep, I recoated with the same mix. I am 'pretty sure' that I applied the second coat but it is possible the second one may have been really light as this was a custom mix and did not have that much more made up.

Not sure about the dark mildew (I believe it was since bleach spotted when it was being cleaned) but I believe I am going to lean toward the heavier bodied stains such as the semi-solids, and even begin experimenting with some semi-trans/semi-solid colors mixes.

Lesson for me is to stay away from toners and make sure to apply heavily.

[James 624]

With PT wood and AC the linseed starts to set up and the second coat doesn't penetrate enough for me. It makes the surface look great. This is why I would put a coat of RS clear in the wood first to get more oil into the wood and top that off with AC. Getting a higher percent of solids into the wood ( non-drying oil) is much better for preservation purposes . Cedar doesn't take as much oil as PT so AC is more suited for it but mildew has been a constant issue for me . I still use AC for garage doors.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Responses in blue:

12 Months almost to the day. I think I've decided to stay away from the toners in the future after a couple that seemed to wash out after a year. This was in between a semi trans/toner blend.

We use a mix of toner and s.t. (2:3) to get more pigment without it looking too muddy. But on PT, just use the full s.t. mix to get better color retention.

The deck after cleaning looked like the area around the planter spot. The house wash took off most everything that was left and I wouldn't say there was any/much oil left in the wood.

The non-drying oil is still there, just the pigment is gone.

Should I plan on using the original stain and take the chance on it being darker (since it may wash out with the cleaning) or do you use the Natural? Should I expect that much of the stain to come off when cleaning for maintenance?

Armstrong is an easy to maintain product. No worries about it going darker. When cleaning with any type of alkaline cleaner, much of the color will come off. Remember, there is no significant resin to hold it in place like before the VOC changes went into effect.

Plan on coating it with the same pigment level as before and it will look just fine each time.

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Not so much a fan of AC's toners. But the semi-trans and semi-solids maintain color well. The amount of non-drying oils is sufficient enough to moisturize and also, when you apply wet on wet, you will get more of the non-drying oil into the substrate, and the drying oil will cure closer to the surface. I have never seen AC shine or film, and anyone who is adept at application, will know to not let any product puddle......

Our PT Pine clients - happy. Decks look good.

Our Cedar clients - happy. Decks look good.

Our Ipe and Teak clients - happy. Decks and furniture look good.

Beth

Edited May 12, 2011 by Beth n Rod
sp

[Greg R 82]

Sounds as though you may have done some serious sanding on this deck as well which won't help your cause from a longevity standpoint. Sanding closes the pores and restricts the woods ability to absorb as much finish. At times it's a necessary evil but just know going in the deck will not accept the stain as well and may require a maintenance coat sooner than it would otherwise.

[David Phillips 14]

Ditto what Greg said. Sanding not only closes the pores, but it also creates a lot of heat which can melt the old solid-color garbage, allowing the sander to "smear" it into the pores of the wood. It's almost always a good idea to lightly strip and brighten after heavy sanding, even if it doesn't look like it needs it. AC and Ready Seal are both great products, but they both have different strengths and weaknesses, and like Rod said.. these aren't the same animals they used to be. Treat your decks like an alcoholic at a keg party. Let 'em drink all they want, you'll know when they've had enough. IMO people make way too big of a deal over "coverage rates". Every piece of wood is different. We've tested every product and application method imaginable, and the #2 rule of long stain life is always.. "the more you get in, the longer it will last". (of course #1 is Prep, Prep,Prep! )