TWP prep advice

[plainpainter 217]

I was reading some literature from gemini coatings about the prep of old wood - and they gave a few options, interestingly they say if you sand a deck down that you should rinse it with water on 2-3 different days afterwards. Anybody hear anything like this?

[bigchaz 157]

I believe that probably references those who physically sand and resurface the wood (no pressure washing), in which case you would want to wash and brighten the wood before staining.

[Tonyg 14]

I know there is an old custom cabinet makers trick to wipe wood down with acetone when they need a piece to be darker. Supposed to open the grain up but yet evaporates very quickly.( I have tried it on new pt when doing repairs to try to get the wood to blend and there is too much in the wood for it to make a difference).

I would think saturating the wood would 'fill' it preventing absorbtion from standard stains. I wonder if waiting the 2-3 days and then another 24-48hrs would make that much of a difference in how much the grain opensa up.

BTW, I thought Gemini only did interior stains?

[plainpainter 217]

Gemini is the maker of TWP stains.

[plainpainter 217]

I believe that probably references those who physically sand and resurface the wood (no pressure washing), in which case you would want to wash and brighten the wood before staining.

That's interesting, because I use a floor sander on a deck after stripping and brightening. You still think it needs to be washed again after using a floor sander with 40/60 grit pads?

[James 625]

Sure it's not for new wood. New wood should go through a few watering cycles to open up the pores of the wood before oiling. Read it again and get back to us !

[plainpainter 217]

There are 3 categories, new wood, old wood, sealed wood. The one I am referring to is sealed wood, since that is what I most come up against - having to remove a previous sealer. Then they say the entire surface is to be washed with a 50/50 bleach water solution and rinsed. Then the finish can be removed one of 3 ways - by using a chemical stripper and following manufacturers directions, by sanding of sealer by 60-80 grit, or by power washing. And if you take the sanding option - then they say to rinse the deck with water on two to three different days afterwards.

The new wood section said to let it weather between 4-12 months. then a bleach clean.

Part of me is thinking that in my efforts to turn out sweet work - I am actually revealing a surface of wood that actually should be chemically cleaned and pores opened again. I am experimenting with my own deck now - where I stripped/washed last year {didn't neutralize} and now a year later I am sanding it down everywhere - afterwards will give a percarb clean and acid bath - then stain.

[RPetry 564]

Daniel,

Between the years you have been doing this, and the obvious intelligence and education you possess, basic wood restoration should not be hard.

[plainpainter 217]

Rick, I think it's healthy to question our methods from time to time. TWP/Gemini is a legitimate company - and they wrote something that was different from what I was doing. I've wondered in the past about the stripping/brightening process before my sanding. So I am trying something a little different from my usual methods to see if I get different results.

[plainpainter 217]

Daniel,

Between the years you have been doing this, and the obvious intelligence and education you possess, basic wood restoration should not be hard.

BTW - when did I ever say it was hard?

[RPetry 564]

... So I am trying something a little different from my usual methods to see if I get different results. ... BTW - when did I ever say it was hard? ...

Daniel,

I am of a particular mindset that after many years of doing this type of work, one has a fair and honest method of restoring and staining exterior wood. There is no holy grail. Merely competence and experience.

[bigchaz 157]

I mean how much sanding are you doing Dan? There's a company here that doesn't pressure wash at all they simply sand the wood down so far that it exposes all new wood. They use a film forming stain though, in the case of a penetrating oil if I was doing that method I would think a wash and brighten would be appropriate after a vigorous sanding.

[plainpainter 217]

Daniel,

I am of a particular mindset that after many years of doing this type of work, one has a fair and honest method of restoring and staining exterior wood. There is no holy grail. Merely competence and experience.

Rick - I thought I had a 'fair and honest' method of restoring wood, from what I can tell I think I sand a heck of a lot more than most guys here. But I am having difficulty with a certain stain made in California, it gets ruined with mildew in short time and it doesn't hold up to a maintenance wash {at least not one strong enough to kill the mildew growing on it} so I am kind of going out of my mind right now - especially when others say they have no problems with the product. Frankly, my decks look brand new just prior to staining - and just re-thinking my process to see if I could be doing anything wrong?

[plainpainter 217]

I mean how much sanding are you doing Dan? There's a company here that doesn't pressure wash at all they simply sand the wood down so far that it exposes all new wood. They use a film forming stain though, in the case of a penetrating oil if I was doing that method I would think a wash and brighten would be appropriate after a vigorous sanding.

Well here is a typical deck, the boards on the far left are stripped and brightened, the boards in the middle are sanded, and then of course the boards on the right are stained.

[RPetry 564]

... There's a company here that doesn't pressure wash at all they simply sand the wood down so far that it exposes all new wood. They use a film forming stain though, in the case of a penetrating oil if I was doing that method I would think a wash and brighten would be appropriate after a vigorous sanding.

Charlie,

You mean they beat the "bejesus" out of the wood and throw on a filmer? That is heresy.

Daniel,

Aside from a cosmetic sanding on ipe' or a "facial powdering" type of sanding on mahogany, in most cases, in my experience, you are wasting both your own time and customer cost. Jake makes a very fine stain. It is at the least half right, with 50% pariffin oil.

Peirce owes my wife Judy a pink Ready Seal hat with her name embroiderd on the back. Jake has to step up and get me a round of golf at Pebble Beach.

[James 625]

I just did a major strip of 3 to 4 coats of paint off 1500 sqft of floor PT wood. Very little penetration of product due to the wood prep ( sanding, resurfacing tools). Washed the wood at the end and washed twice in between stripping and preping.

[Jake Clark 17]

Dan,

Go out and do a couple of hundred decks and contribute to this website. You are just causing confussion by asking endless questions and offering unfounded criticism to those who have done thousands of wood projects, and also, the products they use. This has gone on for years. When you return, we will look forward to your thoughts.

Jake Clark

[plainpainter 217]

Jake,

You should love me, and I'll explain why. Because I am very vocal in alerting you to some very deep issues with your stain. Because there are many others, who not as vocal as me, do not appreciate your product and will never tell you. You will just quietly lose their sales and never know why.

I've told you about mildew - and you know I am not the only one. I've told you about how it doesn't hold to bleach clean at anything north of 1% - and nothing strong enough to clean the mildew. Have you done anything to address these issues?

Listen, you can hate my critique - but you can't change reality - if more contractors have the same experiences for themselves that I have had - they aren't going to stop buying the product because what I said, they're going to stop buying the product because of their own experience.

And I am honest - if someone came to me and said they had a miserable failure with your product on Fir - I'd tell 'em it had nothing to do with the stain and it's just endemic to that particular species of wood.

I know I have already lost customers using your product - I had a gentleman pay me handsome money restoring his hardwood deck, and I will say your product looks beautiful upon application. He told me that 9 months after I initially laid down the stain - 100% of it was totally gone - and that was the reason why he did not consider me for helping him out again.

So I will lay back with the critique - although I thought perhaps it may motivate you to improve your stain - because I think it has potential. In the meantime I will start another thread and show many of the decks I restored over the past 2 years from start to finish - using your product - and I will put my work against anyone I have ever seen on these forums.

[RPetry 564]

Aarav,

This is a pressure washing forum, not a moving and storage website.

Best wishes on your business in Europe.

[acegot 14]

I was reading some literature from gemini coatings about the prep of old wood - and they gave a few options, interestingly they say if you sand a deck down that you should rinse it with water on 2-3 different days afterwards. Anybody hear anything like this?

I haven't been on the boards in a while, Hello Woodies!

You should always wash(Rinse) after sanding to get the dust out the pores of the wood, for better penetration & filling of the pores with sealer/stains. The double wetting I'm not sure on, cause on aged wood once it is rinsed & dried the pores should open up fine, I can only think that is what Jim stated is that on new wood that several drying cycle would open pores even more.

Daniel, as for you saying you percard(or s-hydroxide) after sanding, to me that is a no-no. I have done it myself, as cleaning or stripping railings after the sanding of the floor & cap rail at the floor rinse cycle and the sanded wood is more vulnerable to th chemical & is harder to get neutralized in those areas & often having to use a stronger mix of acid to even out the color, so that tells me the wood is harder to neutralize after sanding & & applying chem. In my opinion that is too harsh on the sanded wood & there is no need. If there is anything that is to be stripped or cleaned that is not sanded thoroughly should done at the beginning of the project, then let dry, then sand, rinse, neutralize & brighten, rinse dry & seal/stain. I do Redwood & Cedar, these woods are more tempermental than PT Pine, but I feel the procedures are the same.

Thank-you for taking the time to read my post.

Edited August 27, 2011 by acegot
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