Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted November 26, 2004 Hi all, I wanted to start this thread and get some feedback and others experiences involved here. We have started a ladder safety regimen for our crew and the basic instructions are: 1.) Always set the ladder up with a 70 degree pitch. A good way to tell when you have it set up right is to stand with your feet at the base of the ladder and extend your arms out straight to the ladder. If you are able to do this standing straight and your arms are fully extended then you have the ladder in the correct angle to facilitate use. If your arms are still bent as you reach out to grab the ladder, then your angle is not correct. Adjust ladder footing away from the building you are leaning it up against. If you have to bend your back or lean forward in order to grab the ladder, then the ladder is not correctly set. Adjust the ladder footing closer to the building you are leaning it up against. Adjust as needed for either case to get to the proper position. 2.) Ladder stabilizers are to be used at all times. The stabilizers help to give a wider area of balance to the upper level of the ladder rungs and limit lateral or axial movement. 3.) Two man rule: When one man is working on the ladder, the other is to be at the base of the ladder holding onto it in order to stabilize the base and watch for any changes in the ladders footing. Has anyone got anything to add or suggestions to what is already posted here? Your input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks, Rod~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GymRat 14 Report post Posted November 26, 2004 I know it is not always posible when doing residential work, but if possible, have a rope at the top of the ladder to tie it off. I know it is hard to find anything to tie it off to sometimes. Also when working at heights, a harness with fall protection tied off to the ladder is a good idea. Safety is #1 John Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted November 26, 2004 I always like to make sure that my ladder is balanced on the ground...usually this involves using a prop under one of the legs to ensure that the ladder does not lean. I test the sturdiness by standing on the bottom rung and hopping up and down and trying to torque the ladder from side to side. If I see and sliding motion at the top of the ladder, I don't go up. I work as a one-man operation, so I do everything I can to make sure that I'm not going to end up on the ground in a helpless condition; I was a crazy cat in my teen years and I don't have too many lives left :) . If I have to go up on a roof that's greater than a 4/12 pitch, I make sure I have my harness on a rope connected before I ever start up the ladder and maintain tension then entire way up; if the ladder falls from some reason, the worst that will happen is I'll be left hanging there and will have to release tension to lower myself back down. I *always* use a ladder stabilizer (if you don't have one, by all means get one...they will increase ladder confidence 100 fold, whatever a fold is). I have only encountered one situation where they were a hindrance due to a very wide and high window span, but I countered this with a make-shift extension wand for window cleaning. I generally try to refrain from using the high-pressure lance while on the ladder unless I'm blasting straight up or no more than a 30 - 45 degree angle in either direction, depending upon the security of the ladder. If I need to use the extension pressure pole (12 - 24'), like I've had to do on a few really high chimneys, I make sure the ladder is absolutely secure (braced against the outside of a window trim or brick work) and that I am attached to the ladder and that the ladder base is somehow reinforced (I use 24" stakes to keep the base from slipping in these situations). Should the extension pole become cumbersome and dangerous to handle, I'll toss it away and get my center of mass back as close to the ladder as possible (grip it for dear life!). Using the Xjet and shurflo combination have almost eliminated the need to do this, by the way. And if you just don't feel right doing it, don't. Sometimes your intuition is there for a reason. If climbing high just feels wrong, find another way, or someone who is more crazy than you if you are working with others. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pams Pressure & Clean 64 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Great topic!! Here's a cool link that should help anyone who climbs ladders and how to stay compliant... http://www.pp.okstate.edu/ehs/links/ladder.htm Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
staudend 14 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Hey Ryan, you've got to install a set of Werner ladder leg stabilizers!! I wouldn't be in business without them. All you do is set it down like you would a regularly equipped ladder and it automatically sets as firmly. I'm not sure exactly how it works, but once installed, it works amazingly. I've even put it on steps on a deck to reach the tall side of a house. Once set down they are locked, when you pick it back up they unlock and can adjust again. Sherwin Williams has them here and I'm sure you can find them elsewhere. I wouldn't plug them if I didn't think they probably saved my life more than once due to a solid base consistently. Nick Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Nick, Funny you should post that because that's the reason I came back to the board tonight. I thought about these things after I put the post up while I was laying down some new tile sealant at one of my contract places. Yeah, I saw these awhile back. They looked very cool and could be used in a variety of places. They also put a rubber cusion on one edge so it can be used on a roof for excellent traction (for split roofs and only one ladder). They were about $80 from what I remember and look like a wedge, if that's what you're talking about. Hey, has anyone seen a device to stabilize a ladder when leaning against a pole or tree? If not, I have a working idea and can smell *patent* over the faint remains of turkey aroma! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pams Pressure & Clean 64 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Hey, has anyone seen a device to stabilize a ladder when leaning against a pole or tree? If not, I have a working idea and can smell *patent* over the faint remains of turkey aroma! Ryan, Ladders used by hunters have a "V" shaped bar that is either studded, equipped with sharpened points, has a knife like edge, or similarly equipped with traction devices. Dunno if this helps or hurts... Cujo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Rats. Oh well, back to the drawring board. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RJTravel 32 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 We work in cold temps, primarily around restaurants. If your work involves sub-freezing temps and commercial buildings then the most important rule is absent from the previous posts. Always toss a handful of rock salt under the hard surface of each ladder foot - even if dry and ice-free when ladder is set. Overspray and other moisture sources can easily migrate and develop a sheet of ice under the feet. It is deceptive and can result in bad fall - been there done that. In addition, we always pocket a small bag of salt in the event of overspray on the rungs - it can be the only way down apart from rappelling down a h/p hose. Richard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Cool point. I had never thought of that. That could be an addition to one of those Lateral Thinking puzzle books. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
staudend 14 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Ryan, here is what I am referring too. www.wernerladder.com/showparts.pl?accessory=PK80-2/APK80-2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RyanH 14 Report post Posted November 27, 2004 Oh, okay. No, these weren't the same things I saw. The piece of equipment I saw resembled an adjustable wedge that could be used to level an incline up to I think around 60 degrees. Also worked for steps, hill inclines, roof slopes, etc. It extended the contact area of the ladder for a slope to make it more stable. also available at sherwin williams. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Pams Pressure & Clean 64 Report post Posted November 28, 2004 Ryan, Those levelers posted by Nick are available at Lowe's & Home Depot here if your looking for an alternative without the S/W price.. About $80.00 for the pair.. mounting hardware included. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douglas Hicks 128 Report post Posted November 28, 2004 Good point RJT. Of course here in sunny Eastern Oregon it never gets below freezing. I keep a light chain w/dog snaps to wrap around a lower rung of the ladder and then to something solid on the building. If nothing can be found, I run a lag screw into the sidding for a tie-off point. Years ago, the local utility company had a safety officer. His advice, never climb a ladder until it is tied off at the top. The linemen just shook there collective heads and did not confuse the safety officer by asking how to tie the ladder off w/o climbing to the top. Douglas Hicks General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RJTravel 32 Report post Posted November 28, 2004 I see no reason why a good attack squirrel cannot be trained to secure the top of a ladder. I understand that one can snatch a few intelligent squirrels in some town southwest of Hells Canyon. I once stopped at a restaurant in a town in E Oregon. I'll never go back. Some wiseguy had put protruding screws in the siding and I cut my shins while making my way to the entrance. Richard Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 64 Report post Posted November 29, 2004 Can I get one of those rodents? Thanks for the information on ladder safety everyone, good reading. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Aplus 525 Report post Posted November 29, 2004 Although I hope it never has to be used.....I carry an emergency contact card in my wallet, and have one laying on the center console in my truck. If I did fall, I'd want information for people to know who I am and who to notify in the event of an accident. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted November 30, 2004 These are some great responses. Sounds like many of us have had a bad day with a ladder at some point in our work. The solutions to them seemed to be more common sense and the thought "Duh! I should have known that would happen" which I'm sure many can relate to. How does OSHA play a role in your business regarding ladders? Do you have the safety gear? What works best and/or costs are worth the investments? Exploring the answers to these questions may give us some further insight. Next! :) Rod~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Celeste 341 Report post Posted November 30, 2004 We have made it a company policy NEVER to send a single person somewhere where even a 4 ft ladder may be used unless there are others on the work site. Our goofy helper was out in the boonies taping plastic - seemed harmless enough to send him alone and - you guessed it - he toppled over, two rungs from the ground. He wasn't really hurt but the point is, there was no one around so it could have been much worse if he was higher on the ladder, etc... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 8, 2004 Good point CarolinaProWash, In light of a similar situation, I was washing a 2nd story deck with a privacy fence around it (6 foot high with lattice on top) and no access except by ladder (2 of them) 1 extension ladder to get up to the deck and the other a 12' mutlifold ladder to get down and up out of the deck. I was washing the outside lattice from the inside and sprayed towards the extension ladder leaning against the outside of the deck and it was blown over by the force of water. Gee...what a predicament! Ok, I have the other one, I straightened it out to form a straight ladder and tried to set it down on the outside to get down and restand the other (fully intending to bungie it in place afterwards) but the ladder was too short to reach the ground. About 5 feet to short. So I tried to drop it into place but guess what, It fell over as well in the process. Ok, now I am stuck up on a deck, no one home, and no way to get down. (All I could do was hope that the neighbors in the townhouse community were not home to see any of this or my next maneuver.) I climbed outside the fence of the deck and stood on the support beam that runs horizontally under the deck that protrudes on the side about a foot, and slowly started to shimmey my way down the support post. In retrospect, I could have used the hose as a rope and lowered the ladder to the ground with it instead. But who is to say that I wouldnt have fallen from trying to get to the 2nd ladder to begin with. I could not insure that it would have been completely stable from atop the deck. I made it with out injury but the point is here, humiliation is a good teacher and ladders are not very reliable unless you take precautions to avoid situations like this. I hope this post will help others out there to understand the importance of securing a ladder. Rod~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
K.J. Pressure Washing 14 Report post Posted December 8, 2004 Carry a cell phone in your pocket when going up on roofs.Keep an emergency contact on your speed dial or hit 911. Even if you got the wind knocked out of you , they can still trace the call...I think... (in this day and age of technology). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mike 64 Report post Posted December 14, 2004 I would like to hear more about securing ladders to the roof when your climbing them. I know ladder stabalizers help ALOT but I read about some of you tieing off the top of the ladder? Thanks! Mike Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chappy 138 Report post Posted December 14, 2004 "Two man rule: When one man is working on the ladder, the other is to be at the base of the ladder holding onto it in order to stabilize the base and watch for any changes in the ladders footing." I just recently read a study that the two man rule actually increased accidents! apparently, the person on the ladder was less careful and relied too much on the holder. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chappy 138 Report post Posted December 14, 2004 one of the first roofs I did, i made the mistake of spraying the side where the ladder was instead of doing that section as I climed down. That was one slippery roof! Fortunately there were some roofers across the street who came over and moved the ladder for me. Only spent 15 minutes before they noticed me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Chappy 138 Report post Posted December 14, 2004 speaking of ladder stupidity: http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2728 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
