PWNA was ask to make another presentation at the MS4 Conference Regional 6

[John T 744]

That last line is calling a spade a spade and forget the spell checks since I'm on my droid in AC where its hard enough to type between dance breaks with my girl.

The other thing here is I also dont appreciate the lies he says about TGS who I still hold dear to my heart because I was with Beth and Rod here from the beginning so its just natural for me to be protective towards this site.

If he hates TGS so much what the heck is he doing here?

Dumb question.. Hes trying to sell something which is himself and since he brands me as a liar... And I'm one of thr people caught him lying all over thr place... He should take his sales hat pitch and disappear from the pros he see right thru his garbage. And newbies should be forwarned about him. He starts with me...he gets hit back so he backs ocf with his lies then I'll forget about him like we all should.

[Christopher 102]

Wouldn't the professional and appropriate thing to do is deal with that where the supposed accusations are happening since they are obviously not happening here?

I mean why bring that drama here in your posts? Why not deal with the supposed things that this supposed person is supposedly saying at the bbs where you say it is happening instead of starting drama here in a thread where there is no drama happening?

Beth had warned about bashing and starting stuff here and with your accusations and pointing out obvious things, it is clear who you are talking about without mentioning a name but is it fair to say things about someone without any proof and start drama on the site where the supposed things are not happening?

Wouldn't it be more fitting to call out the person or man up and call the person out on the site where it is supposedly happening instead of accusing someone over here of stuff that is happening on another site?

Beth did warn about airing other people's business over here, she said she would not put up with it anymore, it was mentioned in the enforcement thread, you might want to go and read it so you don't get into trouble by bashing people or airing other people's business in case you don't know that it will not be tolerated anymore.

I also saw where you were taking a jab at the VP of the ***** about them not telling their members about the epa meeting, the way you pointed it out that the vp should have mentioned it to their members is an obvious jab at the same person. The title of this thread is about the pwna being asked to speak at the meeting but you did not mention that the pwna should have told their members about it, you just took a jab at the vp of the *****, not the president, not the bod or anyone else.

Beth said this kind of thing will not be tolerated anymore and I would hate to see you get into trouble, go read the enforcement thread so you will know that she is being serious, we don't want to see anyone get into trouble or worse.......get banned when you were warned in advance and should know better.

Have a nice day.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

EVERYONE - STOP.

If you need to call names, do it OFFLINE. Get on the phone, send an email, send a candy-gram I don't care. But NO ONE is to drag people through the mud online. LET IT GO.

If you don't drop it, it is disrespectful not only to those you don't like here, but to those you DO like as well.

Beth

[John T 744]

Will do Chris and you should do the same praising your leaders on any PWNA thread in there section just for the sake of doing it. You have questions about the PWNA ask them. You want to praise your leaders in a group you wont join then do it on there 2 sites. Your bringing them purposely into this area and its obvious why the other guy floats in here. for your information I did call him in the past but he doesnt take calls from me. He wants to be taken seriously then he should use his brain and not try to flusey people by labeling others as liars like he did with me. He'll never win that game because it will come back to him everytime x 10. You can count on that because lying will bite back. It always does.

Edited July 20, 2012 by John T

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

AND I said that attacks made by members here, posted on other forums about admins, staff or members here will not be tolerated.

So, Doug's gone.

Anyone else want to push my buttons?

Beth

[Adrian 155]

I love my xjet.

[Scott Stone 604]

Chris, you are right, while I knew about this conference, and had discussed attending with Ron, and later we decided we really did not need too, I should have posted in case anyone else wanted to attend. I will try to do a better job of keeping ALL contractors apprised of these type conferences and seminars.

Lots of people were invited that chose not to attend.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

The reason is simple of why we declined. Our processes of washing do not involve EPA authority at federal level.

Ceta Pwna ***** Ikeca and the rest of the industry doesn't have enough money to attempt walking into this realm. Nor the credentials, this would involve a team of educators experienced contractors and scientific provable data. This post is not intended to hurt feelings discredit anyone. It's Purely my opinion dealing with this for 28 years. Each government in this stage is forming or has formed out reach programs. Find yours with the other local business people, local is what matters and you influence there might mean something.

This is the only reason Doug and myself declined to attend. Perhaps as industry leaders we could have announced what we may have known. I would have thought this was already information that was published , maybe that's why it slipped our minds to inform others.

I have spoken to Ceta and Ikeca on this matter. They actually share the same stance. Roy has actually said they will not even get involved locally with these problems. Ceta has billion dollar companies backing them.

Will let Robert finish what he has started . Do I agree with it all? No but that does not mean I care to stop him from his agenda. We can only make sure our local people understand our wash process does not create hazards like the ones he refers to.

If there a need for what Robert agenda promotes? Yes I have seen the pollution in video some of these other garage cleaners produce. If Robert can make them responsibly practice so it does not adversely affect my business I'm all for it.

There's a place for all of us. We all need to stop pulling apart and realize that what the other hand does will affect us as a whole.

I do not blame anyone's area Getting screwed up on anyone but the contractors who allowed it. Or the ones who bought into the greed they would become elite contractors.

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

[John T 744]

Lots of people were invited that chose not to attend.

I guess my question here would be if someone was invited and they care to know about this info and they consider themselves as leaders in this industry then why not go so the can relay the info to the ones who have a reason to know this? The PWNA got an invite to this probably cause there known in some of these circles but that aside how does one get an invite to these things Scott?

[John T 744]

The reason is simple of why we declined. Our processes of washing do not involve EPA authority at federal level.

Ceta Pwna ***** Ikeca and the rest of the industry doesn't have enough money to attempt walking into this realm. Nor the credentials, this would involve a team of educators experienced contractors and scientific provable data. This post is not intended to hurt feelings discredit anyone. It's Purely my opinion dealing with this for 28 years. Each government in this stage is forming or has formed out reach programs. Find yours with the other local business people, local is what matters and you influence there might mean something.

This is the only reason Doug and myself declined to attend. Perhaps as industry leaders we could have announced what we may have known. I would have thought this was already information that was published , maybe that's why it slipped our minds to inform others.

I have spoken to Ceta and Ikeca on this matter. They actually share the same stance. Roy has actually said they will not even get involved locally with these problems. Ceta has billion dollar companies backing them.

Will let Robert finish what he has started . Do I agree with it all? No but that does not mean I care to stop him from his agenda. We can only make sure our local people understand our wash process does not create hazards like the ones he refers to.

If there a need for what Robert agenda promotes? Yes I have seen the pollution in video some of these other garage cleaners produce. If Robert can make them responsibly practice so it does not adversely affect my business I'm all for it.

There's a place for all of us. We all need to stop pulling apart and realize that what the other hand does will affect us as a whole.

I do not blame anyone's area Getting screwed up on anyone but the contractors who allowed it. Or the ones who bought into the greed they would become elite contractors.

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

You bring up some good points in here Ron but just having some experienced educators that are contractors and also having scientific data you would still need a powerful group such as an org. to support those educators who in turn can help there contractors. This Gov't will not listen to a couple of people. They'll listen to these couple of people if they have a strong group behind them and that means members and the org bank has to get much larger. Your almost talking lobbying...almost.

The pipe dreams in this industry so far has been just that.. Wishful thinking. I give Robert a ton of credit because he has support and he did and still does alot. He...like you... Still need that large group base. This is where a good non profit org. can have a shot. Education is a key in there. You want to be able to send those educators where they need to go, the people they need to meat and the dollar signs to support them and the large member base that supports them also. And they also have to be right thru like you said by having scientific proof that is supported.

I admire these efforts. The other garbage that comes in here for all the wrong reasons helps no one.

When you post like this and get people to think cause none of us know it all it's gives some hope. Keeping this professional because it's a very touchy subject benefits the ones who mostly only go to the bulletin boards and there are alot of those type contractors out there who still with that alone have more then we did way back when.

On top of that it benefits potential orgs if they can put it all together and that will benefit a ton of contractors whether ther org. Members or not. It's just the way it is and the lone soldier these days gets eaten alive out there in the business world which is why I support the "Group" mentality here like I always did on the outside.

Edited July 22, 2012 by John T

[Christopher 102]

Great explanation and info Ron, with all your experience and years of knowlege in the properties, CWA, EPA and other issues that will affect us, I along with many other contractors really appreciate what you do to help the industry.

If you feel there was no need to go as things were going in the right direction already in the Houston area, then I am happy with that. You have never given me any wrong or bad information and I am sure you would not start now.

Maybe my question was not clear, I was not asking Doug about the invite or info, just asking in general if anyone out there knew and maybe had posted it so many of us could see it and decide if we wanted to go, until Jim mentioned it in this thread, I had no idea that it had happened but I would have liked to know about it.

Thank you for all you do for all of us out there Ron.

[Ron Musgraves 240]

Great explanation and info Ron, with all your experience and years of knowlege in the properties, CWA, EPA and other issues that will affect us, I along with many other contractors really appreciate what you do to help the industry.

If you feel there was no need to go as things were going in the right direction already in the Houston area, then I am happy with that. You have never given me any wrong or bad information and I am sure you would not start now.

Maybe my question was not clear, I was not asking Doug about the invite or info, just asking in general if anyone out there knew and maybe had posted it so many of us could see it and decide if we wanted to go, until Jim mentioned it in this thread, I had no idea that it had happened but I would have liked to know about it.

Thank you for all you do for all of us out there Ron.

The truth is Chris Doug wanted to go, I told him that it a waste of resource at the current time. Robert and the Pwna have this covered. I knew we would get a report from them about the outcome. On the flip side the ***** should and will announce these things better when we know about them. I think Doug and myself really gave that no thought. It's was and over site, no one was intentionally Keeping this from anyone. I do not know if the Pwna announced it nor care if they did or didn't.

I think this brings a great point that better communication in orgs is always been needed.

At the ***** I think we will have cured some of these mistakes and regular communication will start happening more consistent in the future.

John numbers always matter in ever cause. We are however not alone in this fight. Carpet cleaner , window cleaners, Kec guy and all the other segments of the cleaning industry are affected by some of these local issues that come about. No one is really alone, if your there from the start you can help. I think more important than crowds is a single person with a clear message. This person has not been a part of every city or municipality that has adopted bmps. Why because the cost of travel time and loss of other obligations is the real issues. We just need a person we the time drive education and will to spread our message. Even if the person or program only trained contractors to say and remedy there own problems.

Crowds are needed all to often when this all goes foul.

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

[John T 744]

If there something that you want changed you need support. It could be a petition of 50,000 names but that still may not help because you will need bank and actual members that belong to whatever it is your trying to do. If it was easy to change things than any guy with a fat wallet could get rules and regs changed to there liking.

Basically what your talking about is "Lobbying". The way our system works is thru lobbying. People can hated it all they want but it's not going to change because your talking about legislation.

You might get some credibility by going around the country meeting with some officials and that could give some weight to Certification courses because I have a feeling this is where this discussion is heading towards. Certification courses work if a person markets them. They also work because the contractor learns from them....

But to go further then that your most likely talking Lobbying due to the dealings your going to have with legislatures.

Since there is no dominant Org. In this Industry it would be great for other org's to work with the PWNA in trying to get noticed where there benefiting the Contractors along with the Environment. The PWNA has a foot in some of these doors because of Roberts Efforts. There are other guys trying to help him on there own dimes and you have to admire people who do that.... But...once again they need all the support they can get. It's good to stay friendly with these other org's because between the bunch of ya maybe someone will listen enough to all of them if they can ever be on the same page.

A good convention one day would be good to have where there are multiple orgs there. Maybe a better idea is to have these orgs have individuals in each one that belong to there own "Think Tank committee's" and make it where they meet with these other org "Think Tanks" on each orgs dimes for the purpose of education with the potential to be able to go in together where 1 guy with an outline supported by all of them be the one who now sits in with "the powers to be" and then because there is no "NRA" or "FOP"s type groups within this industry but now you have something unique.

You have representation in there with multiple org's backing this.

Besides the above-Everything else is fluff if your talking about changing or implementing something that's recognized by the proper authorities and to say different.. There must be acceptable proof instead of mouth pieces just saying they did this...they did that..they helped this...they helped that.. Which is nothing but "Fluff" in the real world.

If your keeping it real..then always the best of luck.

[Scott Stone 604]

Lots of people were invited that chose not to attend.

There are a couple of different ways to get an invite. First, you can develop an industry reputation, in the industry, so that the people that make the decisions are comfortable with your knowledge.

You can also keep your ear to the ground and request an invitation. Whenever there is a conference on a subject, they will often send out open requests for presentations, and ask for a synopsis of what you plan on presenting.

You can also send out an open invitation to any industry organization and tell them you have a presentation.

There are also some industries that will let you pay to present.

Incidentally, the importance of your presentation to the industry and the gravitas it has in their situation is obvious by your location on the calendar. There are some really dead zones that are not even worth the effort to make the presentation. For instance, if you are sharing part of a presentation with someone that you are not related to, that is a filler spot, where they expect your presentation to have minimal value.

If you are scheduled early in the morning after bar night, it is a lousy spot, or directly after lunch. Also, if you are just before the bar night, and there is a short time line between the end of your presentation and the departure, you are not going to have a lot of activity.

You can also tell if you are scheduled in the same hour with something that can produce revenue. It doesn't matter whether or not it is government, they are always interested in revenue streams.

As for me, I always check when they want me to speak. I learned that lesson the hard way. It sucks to spend hours on a presentation, make the effort to travel, and have three people in the presentation, and none of them are interested in the service or subject that you are presenting about.

Sometimes you do get a cool gift for making a presentation.

[Christopher 102]

The truth is Chris Doug wanted to go, I told him that it a waste of resource at the current time. Robert and the Pwna have this covered. I knew we would get a report from them about the outcome. On the flip side the ***** should and will announce these things better when we know about them. I think Doug and myself really gave that no thought. It's was and over site, no one was intentionally Keeping this from anyone. I do not know if the Pwna announced it nor care if they did or didn't.

I think this brings a great point that better communication in orgs is always been needed.

At the ***** I think we will have cured some of these mistakes and regular communication will start happening more consistent in the future.

John numbers always matter in ever cause. We are however not alone in this fight. Carpet cleaner , window cleaners, Kec guy and all the other segments of the cleaning industry are affected by some of these local issues that come about. No one is really alone, if your there from the start you can help. I think more important than crowds is a single person with a clear message. This person has not been a part of every city or municipality that has adopted bmps. Why because the cost of travel time and loss of other obligations is the real issues. We just need a person we the time drive education and will to spread our message. Even if the person or program only trained contractors to say and remedy there own problems.

Crowds are needed all to often when this all goes foul.

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

Thanks for discussing this Ron, I really appreciate it.

- - - Updated - - -

There are a couple of different ways to get an invite. First, you can develop an industry reputation, in the industry, so that the people that make the decisions are comfortable with your knowledge.

You can also keep your ear to the ground and request an invitation. Whenever there is a conference on a subject, they will often send out open requests for presentations, and ask for a synopsis of what you plan on presenting.

You can also send out an open invitation to any industry organization and tell them you have a presentation.

There are also some industries that will let you pay to present.

Incidentally, the importance of your presentation to the industry and the gravitas it has in their situation is obvious by your location on the calendar. There are some really dead zones that are not even worth the effort to make the presentation. For instance, if you are sharing part of a presentation with someone that you are not related to, that is a filler spot, where they expect your presentation to have minimal value.

If you are scheduled early in the morning after bar night, it is a lousy spot, or directly after lunch. Also, if you are just before the bar night, and there is a short time line between the end of your presentation and the departure, you are not going to have a lot of activity.

You can also tell if you are scheduled in the same hour with something that can produce revenue. It doesn't matter whether or not it is government, they are always interested in revenue streams.

As for me, I always check when they want me to speak. I learned that lesson the hard way. It sucks to spend hours on a presentation, make the effort to travel, and have three people in the presentation, and none of them are interested in the service or subject that you are presenting about.

Sometimes you do get a cool gift for making a presentation.

Thanks Scott, that is great info to know about, thanks for sharing.

[John T 744]

Good information Scott. Its nice to still be able to learn a few things on these bulletin boards after all the years some of us have been on here.

As for what you said about Revenue streams and especially in my last occupation, the majority of this stuff is driven by that and as the times continuously get harder there going to look to enforce some more of the laws that are written on the books and if there not written on there yet--they will be.

Its an uphill battle and good luck to the ones who want to try and make a difference. You just have to hope they keep there integrity levels way up there and they come out of one of these meetings or whatever they call them and they report back to the rest of us who have an interest in this, an honest assessment of what went on. If they don't the truth always has a way of coming out--Some people may not believe in that but everything I ever dealt with..it always does.

[Guy B 70]

You just have to hope they keep there integrity levels way up there and they come out of one of these meetings or whatever they call them and they report back to the rest of us who have an interest in this, an honest assessment of what went on. If they don't the truth always has a way of coming out--Some people may not believe in that but everything I ever dealt with..it always does.

Then I hope you will run for (And Win) a Board Seat at the PWNA John so you can help make sure this happens, I wish you the best of luck.

Unfortunately Contractors are suspicious (And rightfully So) of our Industry Orgs. because they (Orgs.) have been long on promises and short on results for their Members. Until an Org. puts the needs of the "Whole" Membership as it's priority our Industry will never be taken seriously by any Government agency nor will we have any power in numbers of Membership.

I don't know John, sometimes I wonder if it's better Not to have a National Org. to represent our Industry.....Kind of keeps us off the radar.

[John T 744]

You know Guy-- I am considering that very thing about running for a BOD slot again for the PWNA and the second time around I think I can help make a difference. This week where I live I am playing in a charity softball game before the Long Island Ducks play there game. Linda is coming with her family. My old job ask me to play or at least hang around in the Dugout. Where playing against a charity that raises Money for autistic kids QSAC - Quality Services for the Autism Community we already raised $20,000 for these kids. Because of all this suddenly Linda who just threw out the first ball at Fenway 2 weeks ago with Ted Williams family she finally after all these years got the Redsox to raise her Grandfathers banner http://www.thetruebaberuth.com/ has said she would like to attend this game.

Its grown now to where the stadium is honored for her to throw out the first pitch and yours truly was selected to catch it. This is going to be interesting because the guys surprised me with a heck of a uniform paid for by a donor with my name and Ruth's #3 on the back. Linda wants to be here because she loves anything to do with Children.

Besides having a wrecked knee,I wear progressive glasses and I haven't played softball pretty much since I tore both Achilles Tendons on one stupid play when I came back from my honeymoon 19 yrs ago I am determined to squat down and take her pitch and also take one at bat and just swing away(hopefully I don't tear a back muscle because I don't know how to do anything at half speed).

The reason I'm telling you this and boring you to tears is because I keep my promises. I am far from righteous but my integrity level has always been high. I am not in the business of lying like someone has been preaching to the masses to others on the net.

And your right. The thought does cross my mind at times that maybe a national org. Is not in our best interest. I get like that when I get jaded...but is there any glimmer of hope left to make it worthwhile? It's a mountain of a job to try and see if there is truly a way to do it... And with that I may try again because I know where my integrity is. I also have made amends with the people I over did it with where I may have hurt them because of trying to do right the fallout to them wasn't fair.

I am like an open book. Doors always open for anyone,anywhere,anytime.

And thru all this Guy like I said, I keep my promises, your efforts have not been forgotten because I never stopped giving a dam and soon enough you will see why because I am almost done with your story. The industry's story and the ones who know this including ones who represent your efforts-- all of them have been extremely supportive even through my unorthodox ways of getting things done. These are very well respected individuals who have there own fan base. Some very large, some very small and tight...but all of them are strengths to you me and the industry. When you find out about it all because timing is critical here-- the one thing these guys will tell you is I am not a liar, I don't look to ever be one who looks to benefit himself by hurting others and also they become before me. You'll probably meet very few people who has put together multiple teams and committees within where I wanted others to chair no matter how much work I do. It's the belief I have with the strength in numbers. There are better people then me for many things but as far as working hard for the masses or the one.. You'll have to look very hard to find someone who can stay locked in all the way until the task is accomplish and that I always took great pride in myself for being able to do that even though at times it came at probably to great of a cost to some others and myself and when that happens I own up to it as some of you saw when that ***** mess after there excellent Convention was completed.

So will see. First I need to catch Linda's pitch this Tuesday night and from what I heard-- the odds are 5-1 I catch it in the face and break my glasses and then can't get up with my bum knee. If that was to happen I'll just dust it off and savior the memories:)

Edited July 23, 2012 by John T

[John T 744]

Later today its time. Never been this much in the spotlight... I do know one thing, I am going to swing for the fences.:biggrin:

[Adrian 155]

cool......wear a cup bro.!!!!!

get pics.

[Christopher 102]

Then I hope you will run for (And Win) a Board Seat at the PWNA John so you can help make sure this happens, I wish you the best of luck.

Unfortunately Contractors are suspicious (And rightfully So) of our Industry Orgs. because they (Orgs.) have been long on promises and short on results for their Members. Until an Org. puts the needs of the "Whole" Membership as it's priority our Industry will never be taken seriously by any Government agency nor will we have any power in numbers of Membership.

I don't know John, sometimes I wonder if it's better Not to have a National Org. to represent our Industry.....Kind of keeps us off the radar.

Great post Guy!

I know that a lot of newer contractors feel the same way, especially when at the many meetings and round tables each year.

[John T 744]

cool......wear a cup bro.!!!!!

get pics.

Didn't think of that about the cup. If I'm talking with a high pitch voice-- well you know the rest of the story:biggrin:

Will do on the pics.

[Adrian 155]

Ppe lol

[Ron Musgraves 240]

For Many Years I thought the Same thing, now we arrived at what we have today. Distributors talking for us, I'll put the destiny in my own hands. Its time for a change and its happening.

Then I hope you will run for (And Win) a Board Seat at the PWNA John so you can help make sure this happens, I wish you the best of luck.

Unfortunately Contractors are suspicious (And rightfully So) of our Industry Orgs. because they (Orgs.) have been long on promises and short on results for their Members. Until an Org. puts the needs of the "Whole" Membership as it's priority our Industry will never be taken seriously by any Government agency nor will we have any power in numbers of Membership.

I don't know John, sometimes I wonder if it's better Not to have a National Org. to represent our Industry.....Kind of keeps us off the radar.

[Christopher 102]

At the many round tables, meetings and other events for contractors that I attend each year, more and more contractors want their input and less of a vendor input into what is happening in their part of the country.

Contractors are tired of someone else speaking for them about what requirements should be added, adopted or changed in how things are cleaned or maintained at different levels without the input of the contractors that are actually out there doing the work. Vendors are there to sell equipment, they are not out there working to feed their families and having to deal with the recovery/reclaim issues.

Contractors are wanting their input known but most I have talked to are not wanting an org to represent them due to what has happened to the orgs in the past years, they would rather get together in another format and be represented in another way. NCE has brought together a lot of contractors from all around the USA but also from out of the country like Puerto Rico, Mexico, Australia and I think even the UK which shows that people out there are serious about learning and doing the right thing.

These contractors are also wanting to keep things in a workable fashion so that they don't have vendors out there selling to cities their ideas on what equipment should be used so that the contractors have to buy those systems so that they can work in their home cities when the correct way of doing the job properly can be done with the current equipment they have and if they have to, buy more pieces to stay compliant instead of having to buy very expensive equipment just because the idea was sold to the city by a vendor and someone listened to that nonsense and now compliance is only met by purchasing that brand of equipment.

These meetings and round tables are a great way of getting ideas from contractors from all around the world on how things are happening all over the place, what they have to do in order to be/stay compliant and are wanting to know what new things are happening all over to keep informed.