FREE Roof Cleaning Certifications?? Say it can't be so..........

[Guy B 70]

Guy,

With all due respect, I read the posts here by Mr. Booze. He should answer back if he believes contrary to what is being written. Why does anyone on these boards owe him a phone call?? No one can talk over the other one on here and there will be no sides to the story. It will be public for all to see. Unfortunately, it appears that the past posts are biting him in the backside and thats why he is exercising his due diligence. Maybe after reading all of this he learned something.

I heard about the last town hall meeting..... it would appear that there are some mis-statements of fact in the above posts. I have seen enough to formulate my opinion of him. I think that many others have to.

I would also love some answers to the questions I posed above...

Michael, respect back Brother!

Why "Should" he answer back? He's just going to be jumped and ridiculed. I never said anyone "Owed" him a call, why do you feel he "Owes" anyone an answer to a question. The Man asked to answer questions "In Person" over the phone, what you don't respect that?

Look, you and others don't have a problem with the Org. or the Certifications, you have a problem with 1 or 2 people in the Org. you've already admitted to that.

And I'm not throwing off here but, Is the ***** the only Industry Org. to offer certifications?...No but we seem to be the one catching he** for ours.

Michael lets be real here, is everything perfect??? No. Is the ***** trying to be better and do things better?? Yea. Will it be perfect in the eyes of others??.......No. But again, a lot of good people are trying to build a really good Org. here.

Do you really think I'd be apart of any association that would rip off or screw Contractors Michael?? That's not me and you know it and so do a lot of other people.

Why not just direct your anger at the people you're angry with?

[Cyclone 25]

why do you feel he "Owes" anyone an answer to a question.

Because he's a Director of a non profit that is supposed to be promoting the "common interest" of the industry.

[apple 14]

Because he's a Director of a non profit that is supposed to be promoting the "common interest" of the industry.

That's great. Then take him up on his offer to answer.

[Cyclone 25]

That's great. Then take him up on his offer to answer.

I'll stop asking questions in forums when the ***** stops using forums to market Certs.

Deal?

[Guy B 70]

Guy. some of us do want answers to questions. But the issue behind the questions is the defensive manner some of the responses to the questions occur. the history of Orgs, successful orgs take a more professional approach in their interaction with John Q. Public.

You dont see CETA or IWCA out and about in pissing matches with people that question thier objectives and the manner in which they try to meet them. Every-time there is an aggressive post or a response in a passive aggressive manner in which some of the responses may be precieved by the BBS community, it takes away the credibility of the BOD members and the *****.

What or how people ask questions and critique the *****, even when it crosses over the line with personal insults, may not be the best path, BUT every-time a BOD member responds aggressively, it takes a chunk of credibility out of the ***** and its leadership. If the ***** org and BOD wants to be more than 5 letters that gives away free memberships (only to recruit 300 out of 10000 contract cleaners out there) and have them taken seriously, take a look at the history of the debates and their outcome. I ask you look closely and objectively at the history after the ***** convention and public debate that essentially led to a stagnant period of the org that followed. If you search the threads, you will clearly see that very little has changed and that History is repeating itself. I have seen it before as have you. Without credibility and respect of veteran contractors who have been doing this for a while, I fear that the ***** will implode and the ***** will never come out on top in these debates. Too many people know the history and too many BOD members have history that is memorable. Giving out free memberships to boast increased numbers just doesnt fly. It says that your membership is worth nothing.

For what its worth, and I will be the first to say that I am not an org person nor will I ever join the ***** again, if the ***** and BOD wants to be the leader in this industry, get rid of the baggage with history and provide some results that one would expect from a national org representing an industry. Create an environment of transparancy. I can see as far up the elephants ass as the guy holding the flashlight as can most other contractors here on the BBS. Years ago another org had BOD members offering classes and certifcations for the org and there was a huge, and I mean huge fallout and ugly debate that followed. Some BOD members remember it, they have to as if I recall, some may have been in the debate at that time. Why repeat the process and then yell we are transparent from the highest mountain. People dont, wont, cant, buy it! And can you blame them. Its insane by definition; repeating the exact same process as done before expecting a different outcome.

Do I think that there is a place for a national org in the industry? Yes it could clearly be benificial but I cant see it happening. Too many egos and too much history.

Defensive Matt? I tried to answer a few questions and carry on a civil conversation and then someone compares me to a dictator and attacks me? I try to answer a few questions honestly and then belittled for answering them? When I don't know the answer I truthfully say "I don't know the answer" but here's where you'll find it, and attacked for being truthful?

Yea I know the definition of Insanity.

You don't see me pushing anything on anyone Matt. You don't see me mentioning the ***** in every other post, Certifications or sickening hero worship in any of my posts. What happened in the past is just that...the past. Like I said the problem you and others have is with a couple of individuals in the Org. not the Org. itself. And that's fine, I understand. But confine your problems with them, not everybody else, and certainly not the *****.

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with (Or Like) what we're doing, again that's fine, but don't hide behind "Concern For The Industry" and attack folks that are trying to do some good things in order to take down or discredit the one's you have the real problems with.

You and others here had the chance to stay in the game and make a difference, you and others could have been on the board and do all the things you demand done now.....but you didn't... If things aren't going the way you and others wanted them to, don't sit in the bleachers and blame the players in the game.

Will we ever have a National Org.? I don't know..... but if you don't at least try you never will. Got to start somewhere.

[John T 744]

Defensive Matt? I tried to answer a few questions and carry on a civil conversation and then someone compares me to a dictator and attacks me? I try to answer a few questions honestly and then belittled for answering them? When I don't know the answer I truthfully say "I don't know the answer" but here's where you'll find it, and attacked for being truthful?

Yea I know the definition of Insanity.

You don't see me pushing anything on anyone Matt. You don't see me mentioning the ***** in every other post, Certifications or sickening hero worship in any of my posts. What happened in the past is just that...the past. Like I said the problem you and others have is with a couple of individuals in the Org. not the Org. itself. And that's fine, I understand. But confine your problems with them, not everybody else, and certainly not the *****.

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with (Or Like) what we're doing, again that's fine, but don't hide behind "Concern For The Industry" and attack folks that are trying to do some good things in order to take down or discredit the one's you have the real problems with.

You and others here had the chance to stay in the game and make a difference, you and others could have been on the board and do all the things you demand done now.....but you didn't... If things aren't going the way you and others wanted them to, don't sit in the bleachers and blame the players in the game.

Will we ever have a National Org.? I don't know..... but if you don't at least try you never will. Got to start somewhere.

That's all good Guy but let's see if you guys practice what your preach. So far the ***** president hasn't and unfortunately for you he represents what you stand for because he's your President who to us "Outsiders" he wants respect from us then he has to earn it. He can start by taking down that mental institution link he has up on *** where he's telling people to contact the nut house to get info on the Vegas Event coming up.

The guess is he won't do it so don't expect because of actions like that for many people to give him even a drop of respect. Zip Zero.

[John T 744]

Like I said the problem you and others have is with a couple of individuals in the Org. not the Org. itself. And that's fine, I understand. But confine your problems with them, not everybody else, and certainly not the *****.

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with (Or Like) what we're doing, again that's fine, but don't hide behind "Concern For The Industry" and attack folks that are trying to do some good things in order to take down or discredit the one's you have the real problems with.

Will we ever have a National Org.? I don't know..... but if you don't at least try you never will. Got to start somewhere.

Once again are you guys following the advice your giving Guy?

Isn't one of the ***** Listed Environmental guys Tony ************** attacking Robert at every turn and putting up pictures of his sons company and then ripping it on a bb where he represents the *****?

Isn't the ***** president tonight promoting his handpicked VP's school thru a videotape we can all see on YouTube which apparently is against the ***** rules and he's all along trying to purposely interfere with other contractors who are holding events in the near future?

Isn't the PWNA a national org?

Practice what you preach brother or it will come back to haunt you every time like it's happening to Ron now.

[Guy B 70]

I guess there's a double standard here John, I don't see a problem with this do you? Double Standard Looks to me that Michael is helping Contractors better themselves for the betterment of the Industry. But no one else is suppose to.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Guy B

[Guy B 70]

Once again are you guys following the advice your giving Guy?

Isn't one of the ***** Listed Environmental guys Tony ************** attacking Robert at every turn and putting up pictures of his sons company and then ripping it on a bb where he represents the *****?

Isn't the ***** president tonight promoting his handpicked VP's school thru a videotape we can all see on YouTube which apparently is against the ***** rules and he's all along trying to purposely interfere with other contractors who are holding events in the near future?

Isn't the PWNA a national org?

Practice what you preach brother or it will come back to haunt you every time like it's happening to Ron now.

What has any of this got to do with Roof Certifications??? The subject of this thread???

[John T 744]

What has any of this got to do with Roof Certifications??? The subject of this thread???

It doesn't have to. I'm addressing your points that your expecting others to follow in this thread. First off where do you see a double standard? You guys posted last week that the ***** BOD's are not endorsing or promoting private companies. That's the words of your fellow BOD's which has nothing to do with Michael so there is no double standard. Those are your rules and you guys aren't following them.

So what about the attacks your president is doing to others? How about your Environmental Chairmen or Co-Chair or what ever Enviro position Tony now has within the *****. Isn't it very obvious he is publicly attacking quite a few individuals that some do and some don't belong to other org's?

What about your statement above to Matt that says will we ever have a national org? What do you think the PWNA is?

What goes around comes around. All the above is pretty disrespectful don't you think?

[Guy B 70]

All the above is pretty disrespectful don't you think?

No I think all the crap that you brought over here and started because your feelings got hurt is pretty disrespectful John. And you banned Ron & Scott just to be spiteful because they hurt your feelings. None of this has anything to do with the *****.

Keep crying Wolf John.

[John T 744]

No I think all the crap that you brought over here and started because your feelings got hurt is pretty disrespectful John. And you banned Ron & Scott just to be spiteful because they hurt your feelings. None of this has anything to do with the *****.

Keep crying Wolf John.

Your skirting the answers because you can't answer them or your boss won't allow you to. Those two above mention couldn't hurt my feelings no matter how many times you tell yourself that.

So what's your story Guy do you support your ***** president and his Enviro Guy Tony to attack others? How about your ***** President handpicking the ***** VP and posting multiple threads now endorsing him on the net?

Where's the transparency? How about when he attacked the Vegas event with that nut house link. Do you support your leader in doing stuff like that? Well do you?

[Guy B 70]

My Wife let's me say whatever I want to, that's the only Boss I answer to John.....Again none of that has anything to do with this thread.

1 Post you're jumping up and down about Certs. another it's about Ron or Tony. The nut house thing was a joke John and you know it. Doug wasn't hand picked he was voted in.

What other kind of junk that has nothing to do with this thread or TGS do you want to bring up?

[John T 744]

Dupe Post

Edited February 21, 2013 by John T
Dupe post

[John T 744]

My Wife let's me say whatever I want to, that's the only Boss I answer to John.....Again none of that has anything to do with this thread.

1 Post you're jumping up and down about Certs. another it's about Ron or Tony. The nut house thing was a joke John and you know it. Doug wasn't hand picked he was voted in.

What other kind of junk that has nothing to do with this thread or TGS do you want to bring up?

Yea sure Doug wasn't handpicked by Ron to be the ***** VP and then he got voted in. Right. That's believable- big time NOT! I could care less about your Certs but I do care if your misleading contractors in there. You mean Rons a Joke and we all know it... Well then that I can agree on because I already know why he purposely planned the NJ RT as you do and you also know that he was telling many that he was going to do Vegas event first the same time were doing ours..

So that is no longer a Joke now is it? Of course not.

The only thing that any of this has to do with TGS is if any of you are caught lying here just to further your cause. Also as in your case calling TGS members names such as little man to one of then recently to incite them over something that you did that was so off the charts wrong... Well maybe you shouldn't have called this guy out over here. Did you think about that one.. Of course not.

Once again try practicing what you and your guys are trying to preach now. You want respect then earn it. If not then expect a long term as a ***** BOD that will have nothing to look forward to but misery... And like Matt Johnson so eloquently stated you guys better turn the tables soon or History will repeat itself because it always does when the same mistakes are forever being done over and over.... And I think you know that by now.

On that note Goodnight

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Defensive Matt? I tried to answer a few questions and carry on a civil conversation and then someone compares me to a dictator and attacks me? I try to answer a few questions honestly and then belittled for answering them? When I don't know the answer I truthfully say "I don't know the answer" but here's where you'll find it, and attacked for being truthful?

Yea I know the definition of Insanity.

You don't see me pushing anything on anyone Matt. You don't see me mentioning the ***** in every other post, Certifications or sickening hero worship in any of my posts. What happened in the past is just that...the past. Like I said the problem you and others have is with a couple of individuals in the Org. not the Org. itself. And that's fine, I understand. But confine your problems with them, not everybody else, and certainly not the *****.

I don't expect you or anyone else to agree with (Or Like) what we're doing, again that's fine, but don't hide behind "Concern For The Industry" and attack folks that are trying to do some good things in order to take down or discredit the one's you have the real problems with.

You and others here had the chance to stay in the game and make a difference, you and others could have been on the board and do all the things you demand done now.....but you didn't... If things aren't going the way you and others wanted them to, don't sit in the bleachers and blame the players in the game.

Will we ever have a National Org.? I don't know..... but if you don't at least try you never will. Got to start somewhere.

Guy, If you and the others cant see that ***** / ORG history is repeating ittself and the BOD members are responsible for it, the issue is much deeper.

You posted that We had the chance to stay in the game? Take a step back, dont loose your objectivity, and tell me why would I or anyone want to push an initiative forward when the leadership is out in public taking shots, stirring it up and being disrespectful. You dont see it do you? You and the others BOD members really dont get it? It just dawned on me, why all of the debate is going on here on the BBS and the real issues behind ***** quest to unite the industry. ANd here me out with this. You guys cant sell it! And a lot of people wont buy it.

Not myself, Mike, You, or anyone on this BBS board has the skillset and educational background needed to advance the ***** to be a household name. And yes, I included myself with this. You are talking a National Org that you want to be. Someone with the charisma, people skills, education, ability to unite - not divide, devise and implements systems, deal with crisis management, address internal and external dissent, and last but not least ensure sustainability is required to place the ***** on the National Stage in the positive light. Where can you find this person? You wont! The Person needed with these skills is working somewhere taking down a 6 or 7 figure a year salary with a national company. This person will likely have a masters degree in international business, or a Masters in International Marketing or a related field. And people with insight get this, find a leader with these skills who will unite the industy and you will have the following you hope for. Until then, dont take it personal because people wont fill up cars and climb aboard the ********** train, right now the perception is that the train track loops around into itsself. What does that mean? With all of the hard work and dedication of you and the BOD members will lead nowhere. Eventually the same old track will wear out and the train will derail.

I am a huge fan of Steve Jobs (his biography is a great read). For an acid dropping college dropout, he built an international dynasty - but his hard hitting behind the scenes my way or the highway management style worked for Apple. Why? He recruited some of the brightest people in the world to work for him, and he demanded perfection. If one of his staff publicly put a blemish on the Apple Icon they were History! After his departure, his legacy still remains... the guy that was responsible for the Iphone flaw with the Maps app became history. They settle for nothing less than perfection.

Guy, you and the other BOD members are the poster children for the *****. Irregardless of what people say about the ***** or accuse it of, everytime one of you or your President respond on these BBS in what is perceived as negative by others, you all put a blemish on the ***** LOGO and effects it credibility. I read the testimonial bread thread as have many others. There are maybe 10 or 12 post. You are asking for positive ***** experiences on one of the busiest BBS in the industry from the contractors here and only gotten 12, a dissapointment for the claim of a "national org"

As BOD member You cant control what people will say about the *****, You guys can only control how you choose to respond to it. And sometimes, silence is golden.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Mathew Johnson

[John T 744]

As BOD member You cant control what people will say about the *****, You guys can only control how you choose to respond to it. And sometimes, silence is golden.

Excellent Post once again Matt. This last part above for them is golden. When Guy gets up in 3-4hrs from now he's most likely just going to come right back in here trying to defend himself and his President. This keeps up where going to watch history repeat itself probably alot sooner then expected.

Like you said with only 10-12 Post here in that "testimonial bread" thread on probably the busiest Industry bulletin board says volumes. It looks like most people see right thru what there president is doing on a bunch of things and they just don't like it. No one likes to see other contractors trying to do something positive and an Industry President tries to bring in "Mental Illness" into the picture. For one thing some people may have a love one with mental illness in there family somewhere and for him to just crack remarks along those lines to try once again to derail another positive thing in this Industry these BOD's are probably starting to get fed up with his antics.

This keeps up it's just a matter of time for there ship to start sinking. He's probably already alienating his BOD's already by shoving down their throats how his VP has the best personal Industry school in the whole country when some of his BOD's probably teach themselves such as maybe Billy Booze with Roof Cleaning.

There time clock is ticking already.

Let's wait and see who's going to speed that clock up. I'll be back on later to see which ***** BOD is going to take some more shots at hard working contractors.

[apple 14]

Matt you underestimate a few of us I believe.

What you don't see is the hard work going on behind the scenes to lay a foundation. To create the systems and procedures to keep this thing going long term. There will be no starting from scratch in the future.

I know it's a novel idea since it hasn't been done before. And I've said this before but I don't believe that is the real issue with the 4 or 5 people here who are unhappy. Past baggage is all I see when you post.

As far as posting here... It doesn't matter what we do in your eyes well be wrong. Bill Booze doesnt post-call him out. Myself or Guy post-call us out. Step back and tell me do you see a trend.

I do agree that silence is golden, but the opportunity to defend our beliefs and what we know to be true can't be passed up. I also cant help but think that the new members who are signing up are hearing of us here.

[Cyclone 25]

Guy, you and the other BOD members are the poster children for the *****. Irregardless of what people say about the ***** or accuse it of, everytime one of you or your President respond on these BBS in what is perceived as negative by others, you all put a blemish on the ***** LOGO and effects it credibility.

As BOD member You cant control what people will say about the *****, You guys can only control how you choose to respond to it. And sometimes, silence is golden.

I said exactly the same thing 374 days ago (link)

Here was the original post......campaign promise

Lets just start running this thing like a business!

Hows that for a start?

I want you guy to know I'm here and if I do something wrong you can BAsh me if you want.

Trust me i can take it....

I keep seeing these ridiculous things about no negativeity about orgs, WHAT!!!

Man if we suck we suck!!! BASH US

How do you make things better? Listen to your members, don't we all listen to our customers?

members = customers which = $$$$ = getting things Done

If you could do something with the ***** what would it be?

Since I started posting in this thread....the repercussions have been hot, heavy and relentless. I've had several people call and email me that they agree but ask to be left out....."don't drag me in this".

I never really thought about why until someone explained it yesterday.....they are afraid.

How's that for a BOD and Org merit badge, achievement, accomplishment? You have a great deal of people afraid to speak out because of fear.

Congratulations!!!

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Matt you underestimate a few of us I believe.

I do agree that silence is golden, but the opportunity to defend our beliefs and what we know to be true can't be passed up. I also cant help but think that the new members who are signing up are hearing of us here.

Let me ask you this... Do you consider yourself an expert in the industry?

[Cyclone 25]

I know it's a novel idea since it hasn't been done before. And I've said this before but I don't believe that is the real issue with the 4 or 5 people here who are unhappy. Past baggage is all I see when you post.

You keep telling yourself that and Matt is right....the train will go full circle. I've had calls, emails or PM's from 3 times the "4 or 5 people" myself. If they could speak their mind without being stricken from the "book of names", publicly castigated and insulted, you might have a different opinion.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

I said exactly the same thing 374 days ago (link)

Here was the original post......campaign promise

Since I started posting in this thread....the repercussions have been hot, heavy and relentless. I've had several people call and email me that they agree but ask to be left out....."don't drag me in this".

I never really thought about why until someone explained it yesterday.....they are afraid.

How's that for a BOD and Org merit badge, achievement, accomplishment? You have a great deal of people afraid to speak out because of fear.

Congratulations!!!

The answer to Ron's last question to his old post quoted above....

If I could suggest one thing that would make the ***** better...... Prohibit ***** BOD members from debating ***** business on the BBS,

Barry, I like your reference to "they are afraid". Must be a pretty smart guy who said it

[Guy B 70]

Let me ask you this... Do you consider yourself an expert in the industry?

And again Whats That Got To Do With Anything???

[John T 744]

And again Whats That Got To Do With Anything???

You'll probably find out soon enough the way you guys are treating others.

[Guy B 70]

Poster Children, good one Matt. I'm glad you are networking with others in your area, that's verbatim a conversation I had with someone last night.

I'm still unsure of why all the concern over something you care nothing for. All of a sudden everyone is concerned an attacking us when we've be in place over a year now? I don't get it.

You say silence is golden, and you're right. But if someone attacks you, baits you, you don't respond? Even when a question is not answered the baiting starts, when answered the attacks start, and we're not suppose to respond to that? Is that how this game is played? Want to make sure I know the rules.

Edited February 21, 2013 by Guy B