FREE Roof Cleaning Certifications?? Say it can't be so..........

[C&S Property Services 24]

Guy,

Cant tell me one huh? I get it now though. Now I know why its called a donating membership.

One of the questions I asked several times was for you (BOD) to tell us what committee's are out there and who is on them (Both non and donating members).

So you respect me Guy? Then why come up with the story that Ron is only saying that about Dougs school because Doug had a heart attack. Really? You know thats more BS then whats its worth to say.

[C&S Property Services 24]

Man Rob I don't know about all that stuff. I'm still talking about the issues here. You have problems with Ron, I can't do anything about that. And I'm not being insensitive but that's not my business BOD or no BOD.

Guy,

I appreciate the comment. But again you must not get it. I dont give two bulls ***** about Ron. What my point is that he is relentless. This is why people will never join the Org. I didnt know I had a problem with Ron to be honest. I voiced my opinion on a topic of discussion. Then he harrasses me with phone calls and text messeges. I clearly state do not call or text me. You do know what harrassment is? My point is that this is your president of a "so called" national Org. Your BOD puts out "free" memberships for contractors to the Org because of why? I get it...you cant get the membership. But just name me one Org who allows free members to be on committee's. Whats the purpose of paying for membership when you can get it free? You have your president promoting that the VP's school is the best in the world, industry, etc. What a joke this Org has become. You can run when you want to and thats ok I understand why Guy. But you are a part of this until you get out of the BOD. And no affadavit you sign will reliquish you of your duties. You ask why the ***** is under fire. When contractors cannot voice their opinions there is no need for an Org. or if they do this is how they get treated. Make it the United Assoc of Mickeys Clubhouse Cleaners. I am sure Disney has enough money to fund you part way.

[Guy B 70]

Whoa Rob, That was speculation on my part, I'm not coming up with a "Story" I don't have to. I said "Maybe" but you twist the words the way you see fit.

Seriously though, if you want answers email them to info@*****.org Rob. Because I'm not answering questions to continue a pis*ing match between you and Ron. You're not interesting in answers because you're interested in the ***** you want answers to continue the attacks because of the problems between you and Ron. As a matter of fact your problems go beyond that to when you were a TT member on the *****.

Do your worst Guys, we're going forward. Have a Great one!!!

[Cyclone 25]

So in "Disagreeing" you mean calling people names comparing them to dictators, and baiting them into an arguments? No barry, you are itching for drama and can't stand it when you're engaged.

I'll say this once and then would you please stay on topic?

I told you what I thought of you after your sarcastic replies......since then, which has been several pages, you just keep going on and on.

Stop hijacking the thread with arguing...

[John T 744]

You're truly Delusional barry.

Hey Barry this is the *****'s PR at their finest.

[tonyshelton 112]

I'm your huckleberry.

Rob, I thought you were literally a rodeo clown either now or in the past. I apologize for bringing that up if it isn't true, but that's what I thought you said before.

And where are those 80 texts? Didn't Ron ask you to post them up if they exist? It's one thing for you to call a man a liar, but it's another to produce evidence. One of you is lying, either you or Ron. It's pretty simple to figure out who. Just post the texts.

These guys on the ***** Bod are doing a great job dealing with you guys. It is the exact opposite of what was going on when the old ***** was in place.

There's no running and hiding from questions here. They have answered the questions SO WELL that most of them have been removed from posting here in hopes that you will finally find someone who runs and hides or is afraid to stand up. You guys keep asking the same questions over and over again and look more foolish each time. The repetitive attacks are adding to the paid ***** membership weekly.

It's pretty easy to see these are just personal issues. Apparently Rob has some problem with someone he calls "the blob" while whining about being called "a clown". What's next, is Michael going to complain about being called a "police officer"?

You guys show your inexperience by ragging on Doug for his "school". It only shows that you have had no experience teaching a school because if you did, you'd know that the money made in such enterprises (at least at the rates Dough is charging) won't buy a family a round of big macs after expenses and you usually lose more money from the work you can't do during that time than you made.

Doug has been blessed in this business and he takes his own time, charges what he has to in order not to lose money, and takes guys who would otherwise go out and destroy houses and concrete and teaches them the fundamentals. Are you guys simply angry because you aren't willing to give of your own time and do the same?

And Barry, didn't you call me and offer to do web work for Ron for a fee? Didn't you ask me to talk to him and see if he would use your services to forward the cause we were working towards in the environmental department? Are you just angry that Ron decided the org didn't have enough money to pay you for something that other members have voluntarily offered their time and effort for free? If what we were doing was good enough for you to be paid to help then why is it all the sudden a bad thing? I don't get it.

Every one of you have been asked repeatedly to join, free of charge, and help. I don't know how we could make it any easier than that.

And Rob, we've all made mistakes. We've all gotten involved in things that we have later looked back and regretted. But not all of us sit back and use that as an excuse to tear down guys who take it over and succeed with it.

Carlos made some mistakes. He did some things that were not completely honest in dealing with speakers and such. But he's one of the toughest guys I know. He took what he learned, put it in practice, went to the back of the bus and busted his rear end to provide for his family and show that he is a true powerwasher at heart, not a web guru, not a part-timer relying on powerwashing to buy his ATV's and big rims on his truck, but a true, work-all-night, dumpster-juice-in-the-face contractor. I've spent some time face to face with Carlos and have come to respect him and his family. I don't regret coming forward and confronting mis-truths, but I do regret not getting to know Carlos better first so I could better understand his decision making process and reason with him more like a human being rather than a faceless creature on the other side of a computer monitor.

Maybe the problem is that you guys don't know the BOD and only know what others whisper to you on the phone.

Don't any of you find it funny or at least interesting that none of the contractors who live and work in Ron's region dislike him the way you internet warriors do?

Me, My son, Chris, Scott, Ty, Tom, Lou, etc, all live and work in Ron's region, but not a single one of them has anything bad to say about him except for Jim Cooney, who tried desperately to take Ron's accounts from him, but now has his "I don't ever do anything for less than 8 cents a foot" business up for sale with a broker showing a claimed gross income of only $160k/yr and a net of around $40k.

And what about Doug **********? So a retired police officer from New York who has never met him hates him. How does that mesh with the local contractors he works with in Texas who never have a bad word to say about him?

And what about Doug's "distributorship"? It's the same as Ron's was. Ron bought so much Landa equipment it was to his advantage to become a Landa rep so he could buy his own equipment at wholesale. When Ron was a Landa "distributor" I called Ron to buy some surface cleaner parts and he offered to give them to me for free. But yet, you guys all called him a distributor back then.

Doug has a distributorship for some cleaner he uses a lot of. So what? So what if he sells some of it to offset his cost? What about the F-9 guys? My son is afraid to buy F-9 wholesale and become a "distributor" for fear someone will bring that up on me later and call me a distributor. What lunacy! A guy selling off a little overage on his chemicals is a far cry from being a Russ, Jerry, Paul or Pete.

Do any of you guys ever subcontract for another power washer? Does that make you a "vendor" just because you offer services to "contractors" and charge something for it?

It's time to bring some sanity into this conversation and make a formal declaration that ALL of us are in a position to occasionally charge another contractor for something and make money "off of other contractors".

But there is a line somewhere that differentiates between a contractor and a vendor. So far we haven't even come up with anyone who is close to that line.

Carlos sells chems, but he is definitely a contractor.

Mike K sells various things, but he is a contractor.

The only example I can think of who would be close to that line is Matt Johnson and I don't know what percentage he gets off sales vs contracting.

Paul K, has a huge contracting business, but he's stepped up and taken on the label of "vendor" for the sake of his own conscience and honesty.

You guys are looking foolish with this. The BOD wiping the floor with you and you don't even know it.

As far as the certs go, there has never been a time in the history of power washing where the entire community was asked to bring input for certifications before now. You are speaking of these certifications as if somehow we, who participated together in the preparation of the tests, purport to be the only ones who know anything about powerwashing.

The fact is we don't know everything. That is why we have an open free membership to allow anyone with anything positive to add to join and give their input. If the entire power washing community can't be trusted to come together and come up with some basic standards and practices, then there is no one qualified to do so.

This is not a Robert Hinderliter style invitation where everyone is invited as long as they be quiet and accept what's already there. For example, multiple coil cleaners were used in the coil cleaning cert. We had differing opinions on methods. Some of those questions were simply discarded because, even though we were each adamant in the validity of our method, the fact was, each of them accomplished the goal of safely cleaning the coils. Those questions had to be taken out because they were not "standards" but rather, our own personal preferences.

These certs are evolving and will continue to evolve as more members offer more and more input. There are some basics that don't change. No matter how much time passes I can't imagine that cleaning your face with caustic would ever be a "best practice". There are just some things that are cut and dry.

As technology evolves there will be changes and we need to keep up with that. That is where all the members come in. That is where you guys come in. If you want to see good standards and practices bring them on and together we will make them part of the certs.

The ***** is your org. It's not Ron's, Chris A's, Bill's, Dougs, Michael or Robert H's, Daryl Mirza's, or Mike Hilborn's. It's yours.

If it weren't that way there's no way on earth the BOD would have opened up a free membership to build it into a true contractor for contractor org. There will have to be some give and take with all that many people involved. If you don't have the ability to flex and work with others then maybe it would be best for you to abstain from joining anything or join the Pwna and come back and take a closer look at the ***** after the building process has had more time.

Meanwhile, as long as my ban has expired, you guys can have at me all you want.

I'm your huckleberry.

[John T 744]

And although I didn't see where he called you a clown, if he did, no I don't agree with that but I also don't know the context he said that in.

Rob at least we finally have Guy saying he doesn't agree with what the ***** president said about you. This will be one of many times to expect the ***** BODS to Begin to get upset with what the "Bossman" says about other contractors. The U Pres. is purposely calling you a cofounder of the ***** because he knew here when he was on TGS that you wanted no part of taking away something that Robert created.

[John T 744]

I don't endorse any school as the best because I would have to go to them all to make that kind of decision. Maybe Ron is trying to help Doug out because he had a heart attack about a month ago and probably has some pretty large medical bills, I don't know. I don't know why this is a problem here but not a problem elsewhere, or anywhere else.

Rob expect to hear plenty of these type stories to help deflect what the ***** President is doing to hook up his hand picked to run VP of the *****.

What Guy is really saying there is he's disgusted by what's going on but he won't give you the real answer as to whats happening there.. Guy knows its flat out wrong to endorse a buddies school the way the "Bossman" is especially right after the other ***** BODS are right here saying the ***** Board doesn't do that or condone that behavior.

[John T 744]

1 Post you're jumping up and down about Certs. another it's about Ron or Tony. The nut house thing was a joke John and you know it.

Rob expect to hear stuff like this to cover up what the head of the ***** does. Let's see Guy says it was a joke. First I get locked out and then The ***** president directs his followers to go to a Nuthouse link to find out about the Vegas Event. Then he precedes to tell everyone in there how him and Tony and a few others are going to do there own Vegas parking garage event.

Then he finally plans a NJ RT Right between to major Industry events all because we wouldn't let him and his crew come in for free when everyone else is paying..

How bad of a cover up is that.. "Yea errrrrrr this is the ***** Exec. BOD and where sorry Industry contractors because of these Jokes my ***** boss likes to do to hard working contractors."

Joke.... Right... What a Joke there working under. Let him prove otherwise..... Problem is he can't.

Edited February 21, 2013 by John T

[Cyclone 25]

Roof Cleaning Cert Questions

General questions

1. Does anyone know the standards for ***** roof cleaning certification?
   
2. Is there any questions on the test relating to cleaning products?
   
3. Is it possible for someone that has never cleaned a roof for hire to become certified?
   
4. Are there any marketing materials provided to the newly certified roof cleaner by the *****?
   
5. Is there any pricing or estimating assistance or handouts/guidelines specific to Cert holders?
   
6. Is there any document that shows how or why the standards as they exist were developed? FAQ?
   
7. Is there a phone number for customers of certification holders to ask questions?
   
8. Is there a web portal for customers of certification holders to submit questions?
   
9. Regarding the non-profit status, Will the ***** track and document the certification earnings of approved training sources that are also members of the *****?
   

Assuming anyone can be certified, regardless of product, pressure, non-pressure:

1. Is the ***** going to honor a manufactures recommendations for cleaning their product?
   
2. What is the position of the ***** if a homeowner calls them, because two certified cleaners are bidding two different procedures and claiming his fellow certified roof cleaner is using a dangerous method?
   
3. Is there a policy against negative information being provided to homeowners about a fellow certified roof cleaner that uses a different method?
   
4. If a roof or gutter is damaged by a surface cleaner, would the ***** be libel to the homeowner?
   
5. Could that same contractor in #4 also sue the ***** for not informing him of the dangers in the certification process?
   
6. If it is discovered that a prospective member getting a ***** certification intends on using a product that has long term toxicity issues, will he still be able to become certified?
   

Regarding Support

1. Most organizations/companies have a knowledge base available for the members to self support. Many also offer group support in forums. Given the reluctance to answer questions in a group setting at this stage, what plans if any exist to resolve this lack of details?
   
2. Same question as above, except for homeowners and commercial customers of a certified member.
   
3. Who is responsible for and the point of contact for complaints?
   

[John T 744]

I'm your huckleberry.

Rob, I thought you were literally a rodeo clown either now or in the past. I apologize for bringing that up if it isn't true, but that's what I thought you said before.

And where are those 80 texts? Didn't Ron ask you to post them up if they exist? It's one thing for you to call a man a liar, but it's another to produce evidence. One of you is lying, either you or Ron. It's pretty simple to figure out who. Just post the texts.

These guys on the ***** Bod are doing a great job dealing with you guys. It is the exact opposite of what was going on when the old ***** was in place.

There's no running and hiding from questions here. They have answered the questions SO WELL that most of them have been removed from posting here in hopes that you will finally find someone who runs and hides or is afraid to stand up. You guys keep asking the same questions over and over again and look more foolish each time. The repetitive attacks are adding to the paid ***** membership weekly.

It's pretty easy to see these are just personal issues. Apparently Rob has some problem with someone he calls "the blob" while whining about being called "a clown". What's next, is Michael going to complain about being called a "police officer"?

You guys show your inexperience by ragging on Doug for his "school". It only shows that you have had no experience teaching a school because if you did, you'd know that the money made in such enterprises (at least at the rates Dough is charging) won't buy a family a round of big macs after expenses and you usually lose more money from the work you can't do during that time than you made.

Doug has been blessed in this business and he takes his own time, charges what he has to in order not to lose money, and takes guys who would otherwise go out and destroy houses and concrete and teaches them the fundamentals. Are you guys simply angry because you aren't willing to give of your own time and do the same?

And Barry, didn't you call me and offer to do web work for Ron for a fee? Didn't you ask me to talk to him and see if he would use your services to forward the cause we were working towards in the environmental department? Are you just angry that Ron decided the org didn't have enough money to pay you for something that other members have voluntarily offered their time and effort for free? If what we were doing was good enough for you to be paid to help then why is it all the sudden a bad thing? I don't get it.

Every one of you have been asked repeatedly to join, free of charge, and help. I don't know how we could make it any easier than that.

And Rob, we've all made mistakes. We've all gotten involved in things that we have later looked back and regretted. But not all of us sit back and use that as an excuse to tear down guys who take it over and succeed with it.

Carlos made some mistakes. He did some things that were not completely honest in dealing with speakers and such. But he's one of the toughest guys I know. He took what he learned, put it in practice, went to the back of the bus and busted his rear end to provide for his family and show that he is a true powerwasher at heart, not a web guru, not a part-timer relying on powerwashing to buy his ATV's and big rims on his truck, but a true, work-all-night, dumpster-juice-in-the-face contractor. I've spent some time face to face with Carlos and have come to respect him and his family. I don't regret coming forward and confronting mis-truths, but I do regret not getting to know Carlos better first so I could better understand his decision making process and reason with him more like a human being rather than a faceless creature on the other side of a computer monitor.

Maybe the problem is that you guys don't know the BOD and only know what others whisper to you on the phone.

Don't any of you find it funny or at least interesting that none of the contractors who live and work in Ron's region dislike him the way you internet warriors do?

Me, My son, Chris, Scott, Ty, Tom, Lou, etc, all live and work in Ron's region, but not a single one of them has anything bad to say about him except for Jim Cooney, who tried desperately to take Ron's accounts from him, but now has his "I don't ever do anything for less than 8 cents a foot" business up for sale with a broker showing a claimed gross income of only $160k/yr and a net of around $40k.

And what about Doug **********? So a retired police officer from New York who has never met him hates him. How does that mesh with the local contractors he works with in Texas who never have a bad word to say about him?

And what about Doug's "distributorship"? It's the same as Ron's was. Ron bought so much Landa equipment it was to his advantage to become a Landa rep so he could buy his own equipment at wholesale. When Ron was a Landa "distributor" I called Ron to buy some surface cleaner parts and he offered to give them to me for free. But yet, you guys all called him a distributor back then.

Doug has a distributorship for some cleaner he uses a lot of. So what? So what if he sells some of it to offset his cost? What about the F-9 guys? My son is afraid to buy F-9 wholesale and become a "distributor" for fear someone will bring that up on me later and call me a distributor. What lunacy! A guy selling off a little overage on his chemicals is a far cry from being a Russ, Jerry, Paul or Pete.

Do any of you guys ever subcontract for another power washer? Does that make you a "vendor" just because you offer services to "contractors" and charge something for it?

It's time to bring some sanity into this conversation and make a formal declaration that ALL of us are in a position to occasionally charge another contractor for something and make money "off of other contractors".

But there is a line somewhere that differentiates between a contractor and a vendor. So far we haven't even come up with anyone who is close to that line.

Carlos sells chems, but he is definitely a contractor.

Mike K sells various things, but he is a contractor.

The only example I can think of who would be close to that line is Matt Johnson and I don't know what percentage he gets off sales vs contracting.

Paul K, has a huge contracting business, but he's stepped up and taken on the label of "vendor" for the sake of his own conscience and honesty.

You guys are looking foolish with this. The BOD wiping the floor with you and you don't even know it.

As far as the certs go, there has never been a time in the history of power washing where the entire community was asked to bring input for certifications before now. You are speaking of these certifications as if somehow we, who participated together in the preparation of the tests, purport to be the only ones who know anything about powerwashing.

The fact is we don't know everything. That is why we have an open free membership to allow anyone with anything positive to add to join and give their input. If the entire power washing community can't be trusted to come together and come up with some basic standards and practices, then there is no one qualified to do so.

This is not a Robert Hinderliter style invitation where everyone is invited as long as they be quiet and accept what's already there. For example, multiple coil cleaners were used in the coil cleaning cert. We had differing opinions on methods. Some of those questions were simply discarded because, even though we were each adamant in the validity of our method, the fact was, each of them accomplished the goal of safely cleaning the coils. Those questions had to be taken out because they were not "standards" but rather, our own personal preferences.

These certs are evolving and will continue to evolve as more members offer more and more input. There are some basics that don't change. No matter how much time passes I can't imagine that cleaning your face with caustic would ever be a "best practice". There are just some things that are cut and dry.

As technology evolves there will be changes and we need to keep up with that. That is where all the members come in. That is where you guys come in. If you want to see good standards and practices bring them on and together we will make them part of the certs.

The ***** is your org. It's not Ron's, Chris A's, Bill's, Dougs, Michael or Robert H's, Daryl Mirza's, or Mike Hilborn's. It's yours.

If it weren't that way there's no way on earth the BOD would have opened up a free membership to build it into a true contractor for contractor org. There will have to be some give and take with all that many people involved. If you don't have the ability to flex and work with others then maybe it would be best for you to abstain from joining anything or join the Pwna and come back and take a closer look at the ***** after the building process has had more time.

Meanwhile, as long as my ban has expired, you guys can have at me all you want.

I'm your huckleberry.

Ok Huckleberry(your words) since Rob told Your Boss that Robert founded the ***** and thats it why does your boss now put Rob Huffman in as a Cofounder?

How about your Boss putting down partime Powerwashers right here on TGS then defies what his fellow BOD's put out here that the policy of your org is for the Board to not endorse or promote private schools?

Hey since your here what's the story about you and your boss yacking all over the place how your going to do a Vegas Event the same day we have one planned and now your dropping a RT right between 2 major Industry one? What's the purpose of that?

So the goal is to get the ***** BODS selling schools and Certs to the Free ***** members?

You guys are kidding no one. Can't wait to hear your explanations why you two tried to sabotage other hard working contractor events and trying to back stab a few of us such as what Ron did to Rob who point blank told him he's not or ever was a cofounder of the UA*MC just to cause Drama.

Go ahead Huckleberry(your words) let's see how your going to duck around this one.

2300+ viewers will be reading your responses..

[John T 744]

NOTE TO ALL:

THE ***** PRESIDENT IS NOW POSTING PRIVATE TEXT MESSAGES ON HIS BB!! A TRUE INDUSTRY LEADER doing what he does best.

[tonyshelton 112]

Ok Huckleberry(your words) since Rob told Your Boss that Robert founded the ***** and thats it why does your boss now put Rob Huffman in as a Cofounder?

How about your Boss putting down partime Powerwashers right here on TGS then defies what his fellow BOD's put out here that the policy of your org is for the Board to not endorse or promote private schools?

Hey since your here what's the story about you and your boss yacking all over the place how your going to do a Vegas Event the same day we have one planned and now your dropping a RT right between 2 major Industry one? What's the purpose of that?

So the goal is to get the ***** BODS selling schools and Certs to the Free ***** members?

You guys are kidding no one. Can't wait to hear your explanations why you two tried to sabotage other hard working contractor events and trying to back stab a few of us such as what Ron did to Rob who point blank told him he's not or ever was a cofounder of the UA*MC just to cause Drama.

Go ahead Huckleberry(your words) let's see how your going to duck around this one.

2300+ viewers will be reading your responses..

I can't answer for Ron, but I will answer for myself.

Here's the simple fact, If I am climbing without a rope (my sole income comes from powerwashing) then I am much more likely to be very careful in the moves I make. One wrong move could kill me. (destroy my income). I am much more likely to spend the time and effort to learn how to climb properly and do it right. I would get on boards and learn from others who had been there before me, successfully completed the climb and carefully try to follow their lead.

Few of us start off full time. It's almost impossible. But the ones who ARE in the business with no safety ropes have more stake in the game than the marathon part-timers who always rely on other sources of income and are much more likely to take changes in the industry and dangers to our income seriously.

You've got guys like Michael P complaining about the ***** when, in reality the whole industry could fall of the map and it wouldn't hurt his income one bit. I'd say that puts him in an entirely different category than many of us. He doesn't have as much "skin in the game".

If you take that as putting down part-timers that is just your own personal feeling. Almost all of us were part-timers at one time or another. The perpetual part-timers just fall in a different category. It would be like if you claimed that if I said Fayth had less "skin in the game" than Chris in regards to completing storefront powerwashing jobs that I was "putting down" Fayth.

These are just facts, not putting anyone down.

------

Regarding endorsing. On a personal level Ron can endorse whatever he likes. What you are saying is tantamount to saying that now that Ron is president he needs to go back and remove all his posts about how he likes Landa Waterjets. It's silly.

-----

Your assumption about schools is ridiculous. Did you know the PWNA asked me multiple times to teach a coil cleaning school through them? They wanted to charge over $2k each and have me fly down to Delco to do it. I wonder if they market those schools? Go take a look and see.

On the other hand we have the ***** which is selling zero schooling. All they are doing is accepting training in ANY school, including the pwna schools, as a prerequisite to take a certification test in lieu of five years verifiable experience.

How can one be more openly slanted in their views John?

------

Who cares who the founders of the ***** are? Not everyone cares about "plaques" and "awards" and all that other fluff. Some of us would rather just get something positive done and couldn't care less about who founded what or who got what award or what celebrities or politicians one has met in their line of work. The fact is, the ***** is not yet fully built. Once it is done some people will just naturally be remembered as the "founders". All the blogging on the internet claiming to found something doesn't really mean a lot in the end.

---------

I don't know anything about all your talk about sabotaging any contractors events. If there was going to be any sabotaging I guess I'd be the first to know because I live here. Maybe you can fill me in with all the details and you and I can get to work sabotaging. Lol.

-----

I'll leave you with an example the difference between a full timer and a part timer, maybe this will help you get it:

[tonyshelton 112]

Barry, Michael or Rob, could you post your preferred answer to each of the questions below? What would you like to see?

Roof Cleaning Cert Questions

General questions

1. Does anyone know the standards for ***** roof cleaning certification?
   
2. Is there any questions on the test relating to cleaning products?
   
3. Is it possible for someone that has never cleaned a roof for hire to become certified?
   
4. Are there any marketing materials provided to the newly certified roof cleaner by the *****?
   
5. Is there any pricing or estimating assistance or handouts/guidelines specific to Cert holders?
   
6. Is there any document that shows how or why the standards as they exist were developed? FAQ?
   
7. Is there a phone number for customers of certification holders to ask questions?
   
8. Is there a web portal for customers of certification holders to submit questions?
   
9. Regarding the non-profit status, Will the ***** track and document the certification earnings of approved training sources that are also members of the *****?
   

Assuming anyone can be certified, regardless of product, pressure, non-pressure:

1. Is the ***** going to honor a manufactures recommendations for cleaning their product?
   
2. What is the position of the ***** if a homeowner calls them, because two certified cleaners are bidding two different procedures and claiming his fellow certified roof cleaner is using a dangerous method?
   
3. Is there a policy against negative information being provided to homeowners about a fellow certified roof cleaner that uses a different method?
   
4. If a roof or gutter is damaged by a surface cleaner, would the ***** be libel to the homeowner?
   
5. Could that same contractor in #4 also sue the ***** for not informing him of the dangers in the certification process?
   
6. If it is discovered that a prospective member getting a ***** certification intends on using a product that has long term toxicity issues, will he still be able to become certified?
   

Regarding Support

1. Most organizations/companies have a knowledge base available for the members to self support. Many also offer group support in forums. Given the reluctance to answer questions in a group setting at this stage, what plans if any exist to resolve this lack of details?
   
2. Same question as above, except for homeowners and commercial customers of a certified member.
   
3. Who is responsible for and the point of contact for complaints?
   

Edited February 21, 2013 by tonyshelton
Added Barry and Michael

[tonyshelton 112]

NOTE TO ALL:

THE ***** PRESIDENT IS NOW POSTING PRIVATE TEXT MESSAGES ON HIS BB!! A TRUE INDUSTRY LEADER doing what he does best.

John, I'd like to introduce you to the wonderful world of just being honest all the time.

Unless texts reveal information that is proprietary to your business or personal in your family life that you've asked not to be revealed, there is an unbelievable peace in knowing that even private texts will not portray you in a different light than your public posting does.

With that philosophy one never has to worry about conversations or texts revealing a Mr. Hyde.

[Cyclone 25]

And Barry, didn't you call me and offer to do web work for Ron for a fee? Didn't you ask me to talk to him and see if he would use your services to forward the cause we were working towards in the environmental department? Are you just angry that Ron decided the org didn't have enough money to pay you for something that other members have voluntarily offered their time and effort for free? If what we were doing was good enough for you to be paid to help then why is it all the sudden a bad thing? I don't get it.

You are confusing two different issues....actually three if you count the one I never told you anything about.

Doug asked me about building a new ***** website. That fizzled out pretty quickly and was pretty much dead before we talked. When I called you, I offered to (for free) to build an integrated EPA cleaning blog network, with multiple people involved, no central hub, no owner. That was what I asked you to run by the others. Not long after that, Ron asked if it was possible to build a WordPress front-end for *** and 3 other forums. I built a quick demo and I tried several times to get him to look at it and call me. After three weeks of no contact, I assumed the idea was dead.

I get lots of people that ask and never follow up. Ron's mockup site was one rare time I did any work without money down and I learned again why I had this rule.

Business is business....Even though Ron was not the nicest guy after I built a directory, I was still open to doing work for him. Even though I am not a big fan of the *****, I was willing to build a website for them.

I don't formulate my opinions over revenge for one or two websites. That's ridiculous. I have not changed my position on anything relating to this industry in years.

Just last Sept I was in the cert thread on *** with exactly the same opinion as this one. My opinion of the ***** has not changed since it was formed and that spans multiple flip flops of some of the current ***** members. Same with certs, same with Robert H and the BMP's.

In other words Tony, my consistent positions....popular or unpopular right now, are subject to the whims of other people changing their minds. I can't control that. If some don't like how I feel about something or someone, I just need a year or two before they come around.

I really hope you don't expect me to agree with everything you believe in....as a condition of friendship.

[Cyclone 25]

Barry, Michael or Rob, could you post your preferred answer to each of the questions below? What would you like to see?

Those were just a few I came up with, I don't know if the others you mentioned even clean roofs. I thought the list might spur the ***** to start discussing this. Debating what I think or want with another guy and a 5 more other guys is a waste of time. It's what the ***** wants that's important.

I'd like to know what's in the Cert....There are talkshoes going back 11 1/2 months.....surely there is something that people can read.

[tonyshelton 112]

You are confusing two different issues....actually three if you count the one I never told you anything about.

Doug asked me about building a new ***** website. That fizzled out pretty quickly and was pretty much dead before we talked. When I called you, I offered to (for free) to build an integrated EPA cleaning blog network, with multiple people involved, no central hub, no owner. That was what I asked you to run by the others. Not long after that, Ron asked if it was possible to build a WordPress front-end for *** and 3 other forums. I built a quick demo and I tried several times to get him to look at it and call me. After three weeks of no contact, I assumed the idea was dead.

I get lots of people that ask and never follow up. Ron's mockup site was one rare time I did any work without money down and I learned again why I had this rule.

Business is business....Even though Ron was not the nicest guy after I built a directory, I was still open to doing work for him. Even though I am not a big fan of the *****, I was willing to build a website for them.

I don't formulate my opinions over revenge for one or two websites. That's ridiculous. I have not changed my position on anything relating to this industry in years.

Just last Sept I was in the cert thread on *** with exactly the same opinion as this one. My opinion of the ***** has not changed since it was formed and that spans multiple flip flops of some of the current ***** members. Same with certs, same with Robert H and the BMP's.

In other words Tony, my consistent positions....popular or unpopular right now, are subject to the whims of other people changing their minds. I can't control that. If some don't like how I feel about something or someone, I just need a year or two before they come around.

I really hope you don't expect me to agree with everything you believe in....as a condition of friendship.

My opinions have changed very little also. But as convincing arguments come from the opposing positions I'd be a fool if I didn't realize that sometimes I am wrong and my position needs to be re-evaluated. Even so, you would be hard pressed to find anywhere I've flip-flopped.

Michael likes to bring up the fact that I had a signature making fun of certs. Yes I did. At the time it seemed like everybody and their dog was coming out with some kind of certification and it was looking ridiculous. I even had one myself! lol.

Once I saw what the ***** had in their vision I realized that it could be good for everybody. There was nothing secret or goofy going on and none of the guys in the leadership positions were in a financial position that could be easily bettered by their involvement.

As I've stated before. It's not in my DNA to fully comprehend concept of making a decision to be involved with something just because of "bennies". But, I do understand there are many out there who don't have the time or money to put towards a cause and they simply want a return on their investment.

Barry, I hope you can see that I am neither a flip-flopper that changes on a whim, or acts hypocritically, or, on the other end a hard-head who refuses to change even when proven wrong, because of an overabundance of pride.

I believe in the ***** and I believe in Ron. I live near Ron and have spent more time with him than anybody on any of these boards. I've listened to him being berated and yelled at by guys who hide who they really are and make you guys think they are saints.

Ron has a lot on his table. He can't follow up on everything and has to make decisions every day on what is a priority. He also has three little kids and three adult kids he has to deal with, plus a business to run that he has to work with at all hours of the day and night.

Is a person supposed to deal with all that plus be the president of an org without ever offending anyone?

Maybe it's time to take move the conversation from the org and just let everybody list how Ron, a stranger to most of you other than texts, phone calls and PM's has ruined all of your lives by failing to stop by on their way through California, not following up on some web stuff, texting one million texts in two minutes or whatever new thing has come up.

Before you start posting your complaints think about this: In over 13 years dealing with contractors Ron has put on events that brought us all together, built the largest powerwashing board in the world, helped promote hundreds of events that weren't his own, and in all that time not one single contractor has ever been financially wronged in any kind of business dealings and sued him. Lots of accusations and other garbage have been claimed, but if the worst anybody can throw at him is "He's trying to take over the industry" and "he texts me all the time" and other such nonsense, I'd say that speaks a lot louder than backroom phone conversations.

And no, we don't have agree. We don't have to be twins to be brothers. And we are brothers in this industry.

[John T 744]

John, I'd like to introduce you to the wonderful world of just being honest all the time.

Unless texts reveal information that is proprietary to your business or personal in your family life that you've asked not to be revealed, there is an unbelievable peace in knowing that even private texts will not portray you in a different light than your public posting does.

With that philosophy one never has to worry about conversations or texts revealing a Mr. Hyde.

The problem with this is what's the right thing and what's the classless thing to do. You would Post your kids private text to you all over the net where most other people consider texting to be like a phone call. Wasn't it you who got to listen to a boat load of Rons private phone calls with others and then you came here to tell everyone? Yes you and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

You want to be civil Tony then there's a two way street. If you want to do what you do on a different bb where you take pics of other people's place of employment and post those pics on the net to criticize them.. You'll find your way right back to where you came from.

As for the Vegas Event that's past now. What's done is done. This wasn't about you and Ron. That's some type of Ego thing that you two need to work out.

But just be very well aware since Your now involved with an organization.. If you or Ron try to throw others under the bus like you both tried to do in the past then you will keep seeing most people in the Industry reacting the way they are right in this thread probably everywhere and anywhere on the net.

You won't fool most business people part timers or not.. Where all far from Stupid.

Also since your already alienating part timers to full timers maybe you should think that some guys do the two jobs,because like you, they have to bring in enough money to take care of their families and children especially and I for one will never treat them like they don't belong here or anywhere in this Industry. Since this is apparently the stand you people in position at the ***** now appear to have---- well shame on you guys!!!!

Edited February 21, 2013 by John T

[tonyshelton 112]

I was going to post some info copied from Ron on the other forum about more info on the certs, but I will keep it here.

Edited February 21, 2013 by tonyshelton
removed a quote from another forum

[John T 744]

Z

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

Lolololol.. Now that's funny. When do we get to read our private text on a bb? Tomorrow? Today? Lol..

[tonyshelton 112]

John, there is no way I can respond to that other than time will tell.

What you see as throwing others under the bus, I see as pointing out hypocrisy.

I explained the difference between a part timer and a full timer. Maybe it would help if you go back and reread it.

Thanks for your input John.

The problem with this is what's the right thing and what's the classless thing to do. You would Post your kids private text to you all over the net where most other people consider texting to be like a phone call. Wasn't it you who got to listen to a boat load of Rons private phone calls with others and then you came here to tell everyone? Yes you and you know exactly what I'm talking about.

You want to be civil Tony then there's a two way street. If you want to do what you do on a different bb where you take pics of other people's place of employment and post those pics on the net to criticize them.. You'll find your way right back to where you came from.

As for the Vegas Event that's past now. What's done is done. This wasn't about you and Ron. That's some type of Ego thing that you two need to work out.

But just be very well aware since Your now involved with an organization.. If you or Ron try to throw others under the bus like you both tried to do in the past then you will keep seeing most people in the Industry reacting the way they are right in this thread probably everywhere and anywhere on the net.

You won't fool most business people part timers or not.. Where all far from Stupid.

Also since your already alienating part timers to full timers maybe you should think that some guys do the two jobs,because like you, they have to bring in enough money to take care of their families and children especially and I for one will never treat them like they don't belong here or anywhere in this Industry. Since this is apparently the stand you people in position at the ***** now appear to have---- well shame on you guys!!!!

[tonyshelton 112]

Lolololol.. Now that's funny. When do we get to read our private text on a bb? Tomorrow? Today? Lol..

I don't get it. I pulled the quote and removed it within seconds. How are you able to go back and repost things I've edited? And what happened to the rest of the quote?

Do you do this often with other people's accounts? Is that what happened at the other forum that caused you to lose your controls?

[tonyshelton 112]

Lolololol.. Now that's funny. When do we get to read our private text on a bb? Tomorrow? Today? Lol..

I don't know what John did with my original post, nor how he even accessed it, but here it is. I'm only posting to try to get some clarification on what John is doing with my posts:

Sometimes certs are simply about learning new things as the industry progresses as Ron pointed out.

[h=2]BArry Please ask some questions here about the ***** certification[/h]

Originally Posted by

Russ Spence

So in all truthfulness what about any certification makes someone better than someone else?

I have never had someone ever ask if I was certified, not ever. No insurance requirement to do it, not required to purchase the equipment nor to even get a business license.

Did *** make you better?

Doesn't learning make you better, on going learning will always help you not hurt you.

Text me anytime for question 480-522-5227

[C&S Property Services 24]

Tony,

Who are you? Are you on the BOD of the *****?

Edited February 21, 2013 by C&S Property Services