Political post dealing with Guns,Zimmerman/Martin

[John T 744]

Below is a picture of the exact Gun I own that I can carry most anywhere. I carry it once on occasion but most of the time I keep it in my safe that has a hand print on it that I use my hand to pop in the number to open this safe. I do have a small arsenal in there.

I'll take a picture of that one of these days.

Face it--- for better or worse this country is built on guns. It truly is. I personally wish there were no guns in this country because I dealt with suicides, accidental kid deaths, Parents killing kids and vise a versa. But where a country that is built on guns and the fact is there are as many guns here as there are people which is roughly 300,000,000 in this country.

So since the 2nd amendment exist I follow my rights to bear arms. I'm also extremely careful that know one can get to my guns.

Now what I'm getting to. The Zimmerman story. I feel terrible for Trayvon Martin who was killed. Absolutely terrible. Who wouldn't if you have kids. He was someones child.

butttttttttttt.....

Now the problem. He gets into a confrontation with the neighborhood watch which was Zimmerman who has the right to bear arms. This kid is apparently pounding Zimmerman pretty good. What happened in here only the jury and the judge and Zimmerman really know.

In my case if I was doing my job the last thing I would use is deadly physical force but if need be.. I would use it.

This case is unfortunate. This country is built on guns may not be the greatest thing in the world but it is what it is.

So like my rights allow I have my family covered... but I also have myself covered because no one in my household can open my safe because of the hand print code I have.

What's your thoughts? Do you allow yourself to use your right which is the 2nd amendment which is your right to bear arms?

Edited July 21, 2013 by John T
having problem loading picture.

[steven 37]

Who was detained Steven? The person on the ground getting beaten? If some crimes are being committed in your area you wouldn't question a suspicious person in that same area? Really?

So LEO's are the sole responsible party in the security and self defense of your home, person, & Family? Really?

Citizens don't have the right to question?? Really?

Really Sheeple?

lets forget about the fight for a second lets not talk about the shooting. the guy was found innocent I am cool with that, lets focus on what started the whole thing.

what did martin do wrong? what law did he break to make Zimmerman want stop him and ask him what he was doing? If Zimmerman sat back and watched, M might have walked into a house and he wouldn't be dead. but no Zimmerman had to act like all the other hot headed over the top crazy cops out there and take matters into his own hands, and make a problem when their wasn't one........... and no, no person, not you, not the cops, not the judge, NO ONE has the right to stop me and start asking me where I am coming from or where I am going if I have done nothing wrong. ITS NONE OF YOUR BUISNESS!! you don't like the way I look or the way I dress well that's your problem not mine. get a grip on yourself. C-MON Guy of course we can and should defend ourselves, our familys, our homes, dog cat whatever. but what was he protecting? nothings happening but someone walking down the street. like I said before if he was coming out of a yard or a garage stop him but not for walking down the street.

[Guy B 70]

lets forget about the fight for a second lets not talk about the shooting. the guy was found innocent I am cool with that, lets focus on what started the whole thing.

what did martin do wrong? ("We will never know") what law did he break to make Zimmerman want stop him and ask him what he was doing? (" Who said he broke a law..?"). If Zimmerman sat back and watched, M might have walked into a house and he wouldn't be dead. (Or might not have) but no Zimmerman had to act like all the other hot headed over the top crazy cops out there and take matters into his own hands, and make a problem when their wasn't one. (by asking TM a question..?.)........... and no, no person, not you, not the cops, not the judge, NO ONE has the right to stop me and start asking me where I am coming from or where I am going if I have done nothing wrong. ( you're wrong there and you will be fractured on the COPS Show ) ITS NONE OF YOUR BUISNESS!! you don't like the way I look or the way I dress well that's your problem not mine. get a grip on yourself. C-MON Guy of course we can and should defend ourselves, our familys, our homes, dog cat whatever. but what was he protecting? ( other homes bring broken in to). nothings happening but someone walking down the street. like I said before if he was coming out of a yard or a garage stop him but not for walking down the street.

From the accounts I have read he was in a gated community where a rash of break in had been taking place, not on the street , they were both in the middle of a populated common area. The witnesses saw what was going on but did nothing what so ever to come to the aid of either man & you suggest to not get involved .....which is what happened.

But none of that matters, because a jury of his peers found him not guilty from the evidence presented to them, there was justice. Sad for some I'm sure.

Not much crime in our area because thieves know that if they break in to a house around here they're 9 times out of 10 liable to get shot. If not by the owner, the neighbors will help out.

Edited July 22, 2013 by Guy B

[NJWashingGuy 31]

Regardless of the verdict, since the only people in the world that knows 100% for sure what went on between them (TM and GZ), why do people feel entitled to go out in roving bands and rob people, destroy property and loot and steal what ever they want???? This particular case is not about race, this tragedy and events like it, have become an excuse for certain people to behave outside of societal norms. What Rick said is true, we have social problems. Where are all the people screaming about the gang violence in Chicago that killed 40 people in one weekend recently?? Its almost not even new worthy...... Why?? On Fox news the other night, I listened to two men talk about the problems in this country and they hit it on the head. There are few good role models for people. We have a "hip hop" culture that teaches about the glamor of drug use, gangs and violence. Who talks about religion?? God?? Doing the right thing?? The future is not looking so good.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Take away the guns there is no "Self Defense" and the people would be defenseless. Which seems to be the direction of the present administration.

I can never understand where people get this idea when it is the N.R.A. that has been the sole progenitor of this propaganda.

No one in congress has made any law, passed any legislation or bill rescinding the right of the people to bear arms.

Nor has any congressman/woman made any noise about repealing the 2nd amendment.

Limiting the number of rounds in a magazine has been the only thing and that was already in a bill that was law which had expired.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0039.htm

anyway, back to the topic.

Rod!~

[allisonhester 30]

I agree whole heartily with you Allison, but let me ask you this......Why is there "Racial Tension"? Why is it automatically "Racial" when an American of African Decent is shot or killed by another race, but not considered "Racial" when an American of African Decent shoots or kills another race? Is this not as "Racial"? Happens all the time, where is the Media, is this not as news worthy? Where are the Politicians? Where is the outrage like we see in this case?

.

I stayed up until 1:30 last night writing out a well crafted, deeply thought out response to this. Then when I went to post I realized I was no longer logged in to TGS and I lost the whole thing. So, I'm following my gut and sticking to my mantra of not talking politics. (But you have a legitimate point. I tend to see both sides of situations, so I get where they are coming from as well.)

[John T 744]

I stayed up until 1:30 last night writing out a well crafted, deeply thought out response to this. Then when I went to post I realized I was no longer logged in to TGS and I lost the whole thing

Man do I hate when that happens! Sometimes in the heat of the moment I try to type out everything I just lost when that happens. Generally though I just say #%*^ and move on.

On this unfortunate incident since the race card was not brought up in court it should not be brought up as having any type of factor because it wasn't. People just want to blame something when there really was nothing according to what our laws are.

Just think if Zimmerman was an actual Police officer and this happened. This whole thing would have been turned into big time Police Brutality. There's no winning this IMO... And sadly to say I'm betting Zimmerman feels terrible how that night ended up and there is no way to console Trayvon Martins parents who's son is dead. Tragic story for sure but I do believe the jury got it right and I hope where not going to have to pay with our tax dollars if the Feds now decide to charge Zimmerman. This case should be closed.

[RPetry 564]

... I agree whole heartily with you Allison, but let me ask you this......Why is there "Racial Tension"? Why is it automatically "Racial" when an American of African Decent is shot or killed by another race, but not considered "Racial" when an American of African Decent shoots or kills another race? Is this not as "Racial"? Happens all the time, where is the Media, is this not as news worthy? Where are the Politicians? Where is the outrage like we see in this case? ...

Guy,

Good post. A short answer, HISTORY.

Black citizens were reviled, beaten down, left to rot for much of our nation's past. This does not just disappear in a generation or three.

In contemporary time, I have difficulties understanding this. Being White in America, that is normal.

I (and assuming you), won the lottery when conceived Caucasian, hopefully middle class, in the U.S. A real "Head Start". I'm old enough to remember the '60's.

Put the shoe on the other foot. I would not want to trade. Our forbearer's left this current society with a legacy of difficulty in race relations.

[Guy B 70]

I can never understand where people get this idea when it is the N.R.A. that has been the sole progenitor of this propaganda.

No one in congress has made any law, passed any legislation or bill rescinding the right of the people to bear arms.

Nor has any congressman/woman made any noise about repealing the 2nd amendment.

Limiting the number of rounds in a magazine has been the only thing and that was already in a bill that was law which had expired.

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2013/rpt/2013-R-0039.htm

anyway, back to the topic.

Rod!~

Sorry Rod it don't wash (Again Friendly Debate) that's not regurgitated N.R.A. hype that was written by the people that founded this Country.

Like to read more?

Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment [ I Annals of Congress at 750 {August 17, 1789}]) - See more at: http://1389blog.com/2012/12/31/americas-founders-on-the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms/#sthash.BwUbRQ69.dpuf"To disarm the people-that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them" George Mason"

Alexander Hamilton: "The best we can hope for concerning the people at large is that they be properly armed."“…to disarm the people – that was the best and most effectual way to enslave them.” (George Mason, 3 Elliot, Debates at 380) - See more at: http://1389blog.com/2012/12/31/americas-founders-on-the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms/#sthash.BwUbRQ69.dpuf

Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment [ I Annals of Congress at 750 {August 17, 1789}]) - See more at: http://1389blog.com/2012/12/31/americas-founders-on-the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms/#sthash.BwUbRQ69.dpuf

Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.” (Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, spoken during floor debate over the Second Amendment [ I Annals of Congress at 750 {August 17, 1789}]) - See more at: http://1389blog.com/2012/12/31/americas-founders-on-the-right-to-keep-and-bear-arms/#sthash.BwUbRQ69.dpuf

Richard Henry Lee: "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."

Samuel Adams: "The Constitution shall never be construed . . . to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."

"What, sir, is the use of militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty. . . Whenever Government means to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise a standing army upon its ruins." -- Debate, U.S. House of Representatives, August 17, 1789

Sure Congress would never do anything like that would they Rod? They said they weren't looking into or storing our emails, right? Phone conversations, right? Mr. Holder took (what weeks?) to answer the question "Will the US use Drones against American Citizens" What do you think the Division of Home Land Security has been "Morphed" into?

Congress (when given an inch) would never take a mile, right Rod?

No Congress is doing an "End Around" on our Constitutional Right(s). Instead of addressing the real problem(s). No they're chipping away at it little by little.

Sorry Buddy, I was born at night...just not last night.

[John T 744]

For better or worse everything changes. It always does. Amendments get amended(Probably wrong term--didn't major in English) attached to them.

Our forefathers basically supported slavery even though a few of our forefathers were off the charts amazing.

Heck Homosexual marriage is legal here in NY now. My religion says its wrong and even though I get repulsed by it my daughter has gay guy friends at our house all the time(She's big time into theatre).

So sometimes you have to think.. who are we to not let someone be happy if its not hurting anyone else?

Politics is complicated and truth be told--- there never is an absolute answer-- IMO.

[RPetry 564]

... So sometimes you have to think.. who are we to not let someone be happy if its not hurting anyone else?...

John,

Probably the best line and idea published in this thread.

[allisonhester 30]

Guy,

Good post. A short answer, HISTORY.

Black citizens were reviled, beaten down, left to rot for much of our nation's past. This does not just disappear in a generation or three.

In contemporary time, I have difficulties understanding this. Being White in America, that is normal.

I (and assuming you), won the lottery when conceived Caucasian, hopefully middle class, in the U.S. A real "Head Start". I'm old enough to remember the '60's.

Put the shoe on the other foot. I would not want to trade. Our forbearer's left this current society with a legacy of difficulty in race relations.

I'm going to try this again since you (Rick) basically shared a lot of what I wrote -- and lost -- last night. We claim we all have equal rights, but we are not starting from an equal playing field. History, socioeconomics, cultural issues all come into play. And to ignore these things is not being realistic. However, to exploit them with every opportunity -- crying "racism" at every turn -- is not the answer either. The people who so desperately want to end racism are too often going about it wrong, in turn driving a deeper wedge between the races. In the words of Nelson Mandela, "If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner." Edited July 23, 2013 by allisonhester
typos

[John T 744]

I'm going to try this again since you (Rick) basically shared a lot of what I wrote -- and lost -- last night. We claim we all have equal rights, but we are not starting from an equal playing field. History, socioeconomics, cultural issues all come into play. And to ignore these things is not being realistic. However, to exploit them with every opportunity -- crying "racism" at every turn -- is not the answer either. The people who so desperately want end racism are too often going about it wrong, in turn driving deeper wedge between the races. In the words of Nelson Mandela, "If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner."

Allison thank your for sharing that. Deep down inside I was hoping you would add a little more time even though you lost the post(That really sucks). This week If I can remember I'll take a picture of when I was on the cover of the Post here in 88-89. I happened to be probably at the right place at the right time and didn't do anything different then anyone else would do. I had a direct run in with Al Sharpton previously and this one lucky night I happened to be there when Al Sharpton along with his two other cronies all got locked up in one shot.

The one I use to know was Roy Innis http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Innis who is of African American back round and was a big dude and a sweet guy in a nice way man. Nelson Mandela would have imbraced him if they haven't done so already.

The Al Sharptons of the world Spew hate and they get away with it. Where is the equality? Al talks a mean game and is once again very charismatic. He can control a room in any conversation.... but like Roy Innis wanted to do to him on an Old "Morton Downey" show and flipped Al Sharpton right over on his chair in a heated discussion..... What I believe is every now and then maybe some people could use a reality check and give them a good beating when there hurting others.(Again old world thinking and politically incorrect).

What I liked was that American kid who got cained in Singapore back when, when he decided it was funny to gouge scratch marks into people's cars. Fear is a learning tool and to be perfectly honest and you know me as to not be to religious but the one thing I love about religion is this--it puts the fear of God into people to do the right thing to others or else. That's the one thing I can honestly admit that I do love about religion. It keeps people on the straight an arrow----hopefully.

[seymore 90]

I stayed up until 1:30 last night writing out a well crafted, deeply thought out response to this. Then when I went to post I realized I was no longer logged in to TGS and I lost the whole thing. So, I'm following my gut and sticking to my mantra of not talking politics. (But you have a legitimate point. I tend to see both sides of situations, so I get where they are coming from as well.)

Allison I've never used it but there is supposed to be an auto save when you are replying.

See bottom left....sorry you lost your post its happen to me also but didn't realize it at the time about auto save.

[Guy B 70]

Guy,

Good post. A short answer, HISTORY.

Black citizens were reviled, beaten down, left to rot for much of our nation's past. This does not just disappear in a generation or three.

In contemporary time, I have difficulties understanding this. Being White in America, that is normal.

I (and assuming you), won the lottery when conceived Caucasian, hopefully middle class, in the U.S. A real "Head Start". I'm old enough to remember the '60's.

Put the shoe on the other foot. I would not want to trade. Our forbearer's left this current society with a legacy of difficulty in race relations.

I'm sorry Rick I don't accept that answer/excuse and I'll tell you why........You, Me, or anyone else we may know had anything to do with that ugly part of American History. Why is the guilt of this placed on the heads of people that had no part of it?

So If a Black person shoots or kills a White person (or other race), there is no outrage or denouncing of this from the Black community because of something that me, you or anyone else I know (for as long as I can remember) had anything to do with? So this is why White people or other races can't march and holler "No Justice No Peace" and "Racism" when their race is shot or killed? Now that sounds like Racism.

So Whites are considered racist because of "History"? What are Latino people considered, Illegal? Islamic People Terrorists? German people, mass murders? History doesn't define a race, it teaches (Most Of) us how to grow better as the "Human Race".

If you or others wish to feel guilty or apologize for a "Legacy" or "History" of racism, you go right ahead, I will not because I had nothing to do with it, nor do/did know anyone that was part of it.

My last name is "Blackmon" I remember "Racism" (if that's what you want to call it) as a kid in school from Black & White children.

No Rick, what we have today is "Reverse Racism" and people that cling to the excuse of History because they refuse to accept the truth and/or responsibility for a situation.

I have never let my race define who I am as a person, so no I don't feel like I hit the lottery by being a certain race. For the record and because of my Family lineage, I consider myself more Native American than "Caucasian" but that's a whole other rant.

[Guy B 70]

I'm going to try this again since you (Rick) basically shared a lot of what I wrote -- and lost -- last night. We claim we all have equal rights, but we are not starting from an equal playing field. History, socioeconomics, cultural issues all come into play. And to ignore these things is not being realistic. However, to exploit them with every opportunity -- crying "racism" at every turn -- is not the answer either. The people who so desperately want end racism are too often going about it wrong, in turn driving deeper wedge between the races. In the words of Nelson Mandela, "If you want to make peace with your enemy, you have to work with your enemy. Then he becomes your partner."

Allison you've got to have a Major in journalism...because no one can say so much with so few words and come directly to the point of a subject as you.....Well Said Young Lady!

I guess at some point in our History this too shall also pass....but I hope no one will apologize for it....I hope they learn from it.

[RPetry 564]

... If you or others wish to feel guilty or apologize for a "Legacy" or "History" of racism, you go right ahead, I will not because I had nothing to do with it, nor do/did know anyone that was part of it. ...

Guy,

Reading my post again, I probably did not express my point well. No, I certainly feel no guilt or need to apologize to anyone for history before my birth. That would be inane.

As a racial group in the U.S., statistically, I would think there is little debate that "Whites" are born with a "leg up" in this society compared to "Blacks", "Hispanics", and "American Indians". Much of this advantage was expressed so well by Allison, "but we are not starting from an equal playing field. History, socioeconomics, cultural issues all come into play."

What I was trying to explore in my own mind and express was to put the shoe on the other foot. How would I react and feel about the Zimmerman case if I had been born a statistically average Black in America?

[John T 744]

Guy,

Reading my post again, I probably did not express my point well. No, I certainly feel no guilt or need to apologize to anyone for history before my birth. That would be inane.

As a racial group in the U.S., statistically, I would think there is little debate that "Whites" are born with a "leg up" in this society compared to "Blacks", "Hispanics", and "American Indians". Much of this advantage was expressed so well by Allison, "but we are not starting from an equal playing field. History, socioeconomics, cultural issues all come into play."

What I was trying to explore in my own mind and express was to put the shoe on the other foot. How would I react and feel about the Zimmerman case if I had been born a statistically average Black in America?

Rick I got what your saying when you wrote it. Sometimes I look at things like that because to get a more subjective view you have to look at what the other guys story is or in this case was. Some of us are fortunate enough to be born with a silver spoon in their mouths where others are born from an ethnic group that has been trounced on for years.

I don't thing we owe anyone anything. I do believe that Mr Zimmerman would indeed apologize to Trayvon's parents if the chance ever comes because no one is happy about killing someone else's child and 17 is pretty much at the last phase of being a child. Saying your sorry just shows you feel bad about something that doesn't necessarily make you wrong. Also saying your sorry doesn't make you wrong.

So sometimes you have to dig deep unto the psyche of the other person to see what made them tick. I truly believe that.

I got a great thread starter just having this conversation right before I go to sleep just. We just got in from Powerwashing. Never know when these ideas can come out but when they do I just have to put it down on paper....errrr I pad.

[Guy B 70]

Guy,

Reading my post again, I probably did not express my point well. No, I certainly feel no guilt or need to apologize to anyone for history before my birth. That would be inane.

As a racial group in the U.S., statistically, I would think there is little debate that "Whites" are born with a "leg up" in this society compared to "Blacks", "Hispanics", and "American Indians". Much of this advantage was expressed so well by Allison, "but we are not starting from an equal playing field. History, socioeconomics, cultural issues all come into play."

What I was trying to explore in my own mind and express was to put the shoe on the other foot. How would I react and feel about the Zimmerman case if I had been born a statistically average Black in America?

I didn't know if you were one of the people that have been made to feel Guilty because of "Reverse Racism" Rick, I'm glad that you haven't fallen for that like so many.

I can't speak as to having a "Leg Up" because of race, I don't think I had special treatment or ever had an advantage because of my race and have had to work for what little I have, just like most people regardless of race. I find the mindset of blaming the past or ones race as an excuse for the lack of progress and self responsibility in ones life. I feel that people who do this have "Enslaved" themselves to past events that can never be changed and hang the "Millstone" of this guilt around the necks of as many people as possible, as many times as they can, for as long as they can, because they or society feel they're allowed to. Most of my Black Friends don't subscribe to this mindset and are proud for what they have accomplished & Built, they take responsibility for their lives & destiny.

I hope that if I were a Black person that I would have the good sense enough to know when my race was being used for "Racial Tension Fodder", most I know are fully aware of this.

[Guy B 70]

I do believe that Mr Zimmerman would indeed apologize to Trayvon's parents if the chance ever comes because no one is happy about killing someone else's child and 17 is pretty much at the last phase of being a child. Saying your sorry just shows you feel bad about something that doesn't necessarily make you wrong. Also saying your sorry doesn't make you wrong.

I disagree, and if it were me I wouldn't. What has GZ got to apologize for? Defending himself? In some cases saying you're "Sorry" means you have taken personal responsibility for a situation and can be an admission of guilt.

Again GZ will have to hide in fear for the rest of his life because he defended himself......If anyone is owed an apology.....It's him.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Discrimination is not just a race issue. It can be a gender issue, it can be a disability issue, it can be an issue surrounding religion. We are raised, all of us, by imperfect people who we idolize and look up to. We see discrimination, joke about it, turn a blind eye to it; we are socialized into a society that expects a certain amount of tolerable discrimination as a part of society. Shame on us all.

What I find disgusting are the poll numbers. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2373773/More-Americans-disapprove-Barack-Obama-George-Zimmerman-new-polls-presidents-job-approval-rating-nosing-downward.html

Beth

[allisonhester 30]

Well said Beth! You are so right. In that article there's a quote from Obama's speech (and a comment afterward) that I thought was right on: in the African-American community at least, there’s a lot of pain around what happened here. I think it’s important to recognize that the African-American community is looking at this issue through a set of experiences and a history that doesn’t go away.'

That pain is clearly visible in the polling data."

We all look at our world through different lenses, and our past experiences and our current passions impact how we respond to things. For example, as the mother of a child with autism, I am MUCH more sensitive to discrimination against people with disabilities. There are names and jokes that our society finds "acceptable" that might have bothered me a little bit before I had Ethan, but now really offend me. I'm looking at the world through a different lens, and it's a personal and passionate one. If someone uses the term "retard" or refers to "the short bus," it literally hurts my heart-- even though I know they probably didn't mean it "that way."

The point is that my pain and passion over my son's disability is very real. It may not always be logical, I may misconstrue situations, and I may overreact. But it's based off MY lens, and no one is changing that. And the same holds true for the Zimmerman trial. Whether the situation was racially motivated or not, the upset members of the African American community are viewing it through a different set of lenses than I am. Many Caucasian Americans are looking at the situation through a different set of lenses than the African American community...and while it may seem more logical to many, it's tainted by history and passions as well. Everything is.

The way you see the world is unique only to you. It's one of the first things we learned in my communications Master's program, and it's one of the only things that really stuck with me. Our perspective of the world is as unique to us as our fingerprints or our DNA.

Last point, we all have our prejudices. They may not be as blatant as race or disabilities or sexuality. For example, I'm prejudice against any woman my age who still looks hot in a bikini. (kidding).

Edited July 23, 2013 by allisonhester

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I totally get where you are coming from Allison. And I have a lens much like your own, as you know.

Beth

p.s. keep working on your beach goal. You can do it!!!! :-)

[Guy B 70]

What I find disgusting are the poll numbers. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2373773/More-Americans-disapprove-Barack-Obama-George-Zimmerman-new-polls-presidents-job-approval-rating-nosing-downward.html

Beth

I do to Beth. Complete bull crap. Poll numbers mean nothing without demographic information. I can go to town and get poll numbers all day long that can switch that completely around. This is just more of the Media churrning turmoil and whipping up "Racial Tension"....Shame On Them!

Oh yea...look what that SOB Zimmerman is up to now. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2374033/EXCLUSIVE-The-family-George-Zimmerman-rescued-horrific-car-wreck-Florida-highway-week--mile-shot-Trayvon-Martin-dead.html

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

The poll numbers disgust me; they are not bull crap. By your own statement I would surmise that you find them to be inaccurate, while I do not. Allison explained it quite well, as did I. The numbers support the hypothesis suggesting that racial points of view are dramatically different regarding the outcome of this case, because of social, educational and economic backgrounds. The reason the numbers disgust me, is that discrimination disgusts me. I grew up with it, a victim of it, surrounded by it. I am perhaps overly sensitive to it. I do my very best to not let it into my life. Having said that, it saddens me greatly to see hatred in our society, displayed by any person or persons towards another person or persons. I look at the poll number and I remember my history lessons. I remember the Civil War. I remember the Civil Rights Acts. I remember other times too, some from history and some from my personal life. I look at those numbers as they are, a reflection of raw human emotion touched by personal experience, knowing that each person who answered that poll had a frame of reference that in that moment touched them emotionally with the result being their polling vote. To me, the numbers are not just numbers, they are an outcry, a scream of pain and anguish, a statement that many will choose to ignore because they are ....just numbers. And sadly, that these numbers are ignored, discounted and cast off as "BS" is disgusting.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Sorry Rod it don't wash (Again Friendly Debate) that's not regurgitated N.R.A. hype that was written by the people that founded this Country.

You are talking centuries ago and none of that is prevalent today.

That is my point.

There is NO talk in government about taking away guns, repealing the 2nd amendment or anything of the sort.

Yes, government does overstep but the point is: guns are not on the table.

Rod!~