AC or DRP in a Humid, Rainy Mountain Environment

[AtlasNC 1]

I've been talking to Jake Clark and Everett Abrams, and both of their products sound awesome. I know every loves AC, and that's what I intend to use when I use oil. Problem is, we get rain here daily during the spring and summer. Everett's stuff (DRP) looks awesome and he has a great reputation. Plus, he has been extremely helpful to me (as has Jake) and I want to return the favor by supporting his company. The thing that really turns me on to Everett's products is that moisture content is basically a non-factor. Has abyone used it? If so, what are your thoughts? I think it cod really be s good thing in my area, but I hear nothing but bad stuff about acrylics.....I want to give my customers the best work and quality for the money, and I don't want to keep them waiting for the weeks or months for the weather to cooperate......Any feedback/advice is GREATLY appreciated. Thank you!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Acrylics are not all bad, but if they are not really, really good then they can be a pistol to maintain.  Have you played with samples of each yet?

 

Beth

[AtlasNC 1]

Thanks for responding Beth! I just got samples the other day, but haven't gotten to do anything with them yet. That's on this week's agenda.

[RPetry 564]

Jesse,

 

These wet wood, throw it on and go type stains have come and gone in the past 8 -10 years.  This is not to claim that Everett's stain is not to be used, but the track record of other formulations is not positive.

 

I was at Everett's location 3 or 4 yrs. ago when he introduced his stain formulation to a group of contractors.  My only impression was the resulting pigment after application was not attractive.  But then again, it had just been applied and had not cured.  Kind of looked watery!

 

How bad is the typical rain pattern in Western N.C during wood season?  Here in the Northeast, yeah, we get a fair share of no stain days.  We just learn to work around them.  We have been using Ready Seal stains (a paraffin oil based stain) going on 13 years now with great success.  Jake's (Armstrong-Clark) stains are also very well formulated and manufactured, being a hybrid of paraffin and linseed oils.

[RPetry 564]

Acrylics are not all bad, but if they are not really, really good then they can be a pistol to maintain.  Have you played with samples of each yet?

 

Beth

 

Oh boy (blood pressure goes through the roof and eyes bulge out of their sockets).  The only excuse to use any acrylic stain is on previously foul stained exterior wood exposed to moisture is to "make it look nice".  Otherwise, its garbage.  Does nothing for the wood itself and is a nightmare to maintain.  OK for vertical posts, spindles and fascia if you have no other choice.

 

Acrylic exterior stains suck.  The devil incarnate for exterior wood.  Its a great coating if your want your wood to rot.

Edited April 14, 2015 by RPetry

[AtlasNC 1]

Thanks for the help RPetry! I got some sames of DRP and A-C, do I'm gonna do some test areas, but it looks like A-C is the way to go. Like you say, just gotta work around the weather!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rick,

Nightmare to maintain? Not really, not the good ones and not on all surfaces.....

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Rick,

Nightmare to maintain? Not really, not the good ones and not on all surfaces.....

Beth

 

Beth,

 

Please re read my post.  The opinion expressed is focused on horizontal exterior wood exposed to moisture.  I have seen more than one < 10 yr. old deck literally rotting from acrylic stain use.  Including spindles!  Cedar and mahogany are especially vulnerable.  One had to be over $30K replacement cost.

 

Care to elaborate on acrylic stain "good ones"?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I've seen both of those species rot after being cared for with oil too Rick. Sometimes, wood does that.....rot, I mean. I have seen 3 year old cedar logs rot from the inside out. I have seen beautiful mahogany cared for with only oil rot.

 

Rot happens. So long as the finish applied to the wood is permeable, it's not an issue. Key word is permeable here....

 

Beth

[James 625]

I have never seen rot when using a non dry oil . It prevents moisture from entering the wood and moisture can not get trapped. It can happen with a drying oil .

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jesse,

Another thing to consider is using a Japan Drier in your product to expedite drying.
 

We do this for a number of our customers using Armstrong due to lack of air flow in screened or cover porches, Tongue and Groove type installations and so forth.

 

One word of caution, Only add it to the product you intend to apply. ie; not the whole pail.

 

Rod

[RPetry 564]

I have never seen rot when using a non dry oil . It prevents moisture from entering the wood and moisture can not get trapped. It can happen with a drying oil .

 

Bingo!  Over these many years, too many miracle stain products that long time contractors and newbies flock like vermin.  AFAIK, over a few years, they fail.  Seen it over and over again.

 

Real wood does not change.  Only the BS  of marketing.  And contractors that believe in a holy grail.

 

If you have to add mildewcides, driers, or other stuff, either the stain is not appropriate to your climate or your prep is bad.  Woodcare is not calculus, it is proper cleaning/stripping, neutralizing, and application.

 

Anything else is just fluff.

[RPetry 564]

As far as clear western red cedar, consider the following picture.  9 yrs. old.  Three applications of foul acrylic stains.  The wood is rotten.

 

Not only the horizontals, but the custom spindles.  Many were only "held together" by the friggin' plastic stain.  I could poke a finger through them.  Shame, new owners.

 

As far as red mahogany, as long as the board end cuts are sealed when built, not a problem.  Otherwise, butt ends will eventually rot unless maintained every two years.

 

Never mind, 50 MB pic file limit is in effect.  I'm done.

 

 

[James 625]

Rick , it's nice to say I just did a cedar maintenance 20 years old Mint !

[RPetry 564]

Rick , it's nice to say I just did a cedar maintenance 20 years old Mint !

 

Wow, 20 years!  We are getting long of tooth.  Congats, there are not many that can claim that long of a track record.

 

Either do your craft right, or go work for someone else.  Simple.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have never seen rot when using a non dry oil . It prevents moisture from entering the wood and moisture can not get trapped. It can happen with a drying oil .

 

Well, I have. Want to see a photo? I'll gladly post one.

 

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

As far as clear western red cedar, consider the following picture.  9 yrs. old.  Three applications of foul acrylic stains.  The wood is rotten.

 

Not only the horizontals, but the custom spindles.  Many were only "held together" by the friggin' plastic stain.  I could poke a finger through them.  Shame, new owners.

 

As far as red mahogany, as long as the board end cuts are sealed when built, not a problem.  Otherwise, butt ends will eventually rot unless maintained every two years.

 

Never mind, 50 MB pic file limit is in effect.  I'm done.

 

Rick, I doubled the limit. You should be able to post just fine. I don't understand why you can't. It was at 40, it's now 80.

 

Beth

[AtlasNC 1]

Thanks for all the info! It's a bit confusing trying to figure out what product is best in each situation. I have searched, read and re-read until I'm blue in the face, but I feel more confused when I'm done. So, to get this straight, AC or Reddy Seal are the two best? If I'm correct on that, next question is how to know when to use one vs the other?

[seymore 90]

 I've used the AC on only a few small jobs looked good and lots of people have good results with it. It's a little pricey than what I'm used of paying but If you can get the $$ for the job that's even better. I just do a ton of fences and it's hard to get the $$ for a fence when you are paying $200 for 5 gal of AC the sealer store. Did it go up? Yikes I only pay $120 for 5 gallons of the Gray Away but my shipping is cheap since I truck it in from Dallas by the pallet to here in Houston.

 

 

You know Charlie with Apex decksavers he's in your climate in NC and he uses a mixture of stains from AC to TWP to Wood Tux. This is going on almost 20 yrs for me and the Gray Away is all I know and used almost $30K of it in 2014 so it works for me.

 

I think the products you use should be consistent and if you give your customers to many options sometimes they get confused and it's tough for you to keep an inventory of products so I would stick with 1 stain 2 at the most.

 

What are you looking to do more decks are they mostly pine or some hardwoods or even doing fences?

 

I would post some old cedar pics but I get and ERROR when uploading pics? I can't post a link also from a photo host either Beth? 

 

I'm also a acrylic free zone....

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Use the link icon to post a link when composing a message.

 

Beth

[RPetry 564]

... I'm also a acrylic free zone....

Hilarious Shane!

 

Though have to admit, we'll use them on previously acrylic stained verticals when the customer balks at the cost of stripping, and just wants the wood to "look nice". 

[James 625]

There is a reason acrylic has cry in the middle of the word !

[RPetry 564]

Diamond Jim,

 

aCRYlic, I get it.  Hah!, I'm afraid many don't.  Makes things a bit more expensive for many of our poor customers.