where is pwna??

[JFife 14]

I went to the pwna board today for the first time in ages, and I got to thinking, I never hear anyone talking about it anymore. I remember beth and rod and Mike Hughes were all really involved, but i don't hear about it anymore. I don't really keep up with the pwna, as I don't see it as something that would help my biz that much, and I don't really keep up with the current happenings and debates about the pwna either. I was just wondering, are everett, beth, mike, ron **********, and all the others that were so involved still big on this?? I'm not trying to start another pwna fight, I am just curious about those people, and if they aren't involved anymore, I'd like to know why. If this is a sore subject, kill the thread or erase it, i'm just being nosy.

jon

[Henry B. 4]

Okay Scott, even though this seems to be a waste of time that we could use for other things.. let me put this another way.

Someone said....

I'm not saying the PWNA must promote non-member companies above member companies.If a homeowner/businessowner contacts the PWNA and is seeking a contractor in his/her area and there is no PWNA member within reasonable distance to that potentail customer,wouldn't it then be prudent for the PWNA to recommend to that potential customer a way to find a non-member company that is qualified to handle the job(i.e. insurance,license,etc.).

Why would the PWNA do that for someone that doesn't even want to support the organization? The PWNA is about helping the industry but at the same time why should it allow non members to benefit from some of it's advertising, programs and other expenses when it's considered a member benefit? If you paid to be a member and support the org, how would you feel about giving work to someone that didn't?

Besides that point, there's another one that no one wants to answer. If you see that there are no other PWNA members near you, don't you think joining would give you the benefit of being the only PWNA member in the area and that would in turn make you stand out against the competition in the customers mind. Honestly, I'm tired of the debate, no one is against non members of PWNA. If you want to gain the benefits of PWNA membership and use it to make you a more successful company like others have done, join. If not, make your decision and stop debating a dead topic. If you or anyone else has questions call the PWNA or someone on the Board of Directors. It would save us all some time we could use for other things. I'm buried under work right now so the last thing I want to do is debate how much the PWNA has helped me and many other members. Join or not, it's up to you but the time we have all spent on this thread could be used for so many better purposes.

If anyone has questions, give me a call.

[squirtgun 122]

Henry,

The only one who thinks they have wasted their time on these posts is you.Until now this thread has had a very positive tone.If you don't have time don't reply!!!

It's clear your version of customer education doesn't include the fact the PWNA may have to tell a potential customer "we don't have a contractor in your area.So enlight of that fact Mr/Mrs home or business owner you are out of luck,because we refuse to tell you how to seek a skilled contractor in your area.They would have to be a PWNA member for us to do that "

You are so brainwashed you have failed to read what I have typed twice and that is "EDUCATE them on the importance of checking license,insurance and references" so that they may seek another contractor on their own.How in the heck is that promoting a non-member company?

Oh, wait a minute it's not...it just doesn't fit into what you and others on the BOD have envisioned for the PWNA so it must be wrong.

"Being narrow minded is like trying to view the world through the eye of a needle."

[Celeste 341]

Okay, here I go looking like I'm sitting on the fence instead of taking on a position and sticking with it...such is life these days.

Okay Scott, even though this seems to be a waste of time that we could use for other things.. let me put this another way.

Henry, it's not always necessary to talk down to people to make a point. As a Board Member, you should especially have to be nice.

Someone said....

I'm not saying the PWNA must promote non-member companies above member companies.If a homeowner/businessowner contacts the PWNA and is seeking a contractor in his/her area and there is no PWNA member within reasonable distance to that potentail customer,wouldn't it then be prudent for the PWNA to recommend to that potential customer a way to find a non-member company that is qualified to handle the job(i.e. insurance,license,etc.).

Why would the PWNA do that for someone that doesn't even want to support the organization? The PWNA is about helping the industry but at the same time why should it allow non members to benefit from some of it's advertising, programs and other expenses when it's considered a member benefit? If you paid to be a member and support the org, how would you feel about giving work to someone that didn't?

I as a member would have a problem if the PWNA passed along leads to non-members. That would be like having someone at Service Magic call me and tell me about a job and me not paying for their service.

With that being said - I have yet to ever get a call or lead as a direct result of someone calling the PWNA to ask for a PWer in my area so this makes the entire thing about Harry Homeowner and Suzie Q. Homemaker don't even know the org exists to call and find me.

Besides that point, there's another one that no one wants to answer. If you see that there are no other PWNA members near you, don't you think joining would give you the benefit of being the only PWNA member in the area and that would in turn make you stand out against the competition in the customers mind.

If there are no other PWNA members in your area, it's quite possible that it would be spending money unnecessarily for some contractors. If the PWNA is unknown and no one around is a member, your own business practices and reputation will get you work.

Honestly, I'm tired of the debate, no one is against non members of PWNA. If you want to gain the benefits of PWNA membership and use it to make you a more successful company like others have done, join. If not, make your decision and stop debating a dead topic. If you or anyone else has questions call the PWNA or someone on the Board of Directors. It would save us all some time we could use for other things. I'm buried under work right now so the last thing I want to do is debate how much the PWNA has helped me and many other members. Join or not, it's up to you but the time we have all spent on this thread could be used for so many better purposes. (See above about being nice - if this is too tedious for you, there are other members out there that can also respond )

If anyone has questions, give me a call.

Celeste

[squirtgun 122]

Celeste,

You know us rednecks aren't smart enough to pick up on Henry's verbal judo.He really doesn't have to be nice.Let him say what he wants no harm,no foul.I can play the game with the dirtiest of them if I have to.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I am going to say that everyone needs to respect everyone else's opinions here, and to read carefully what is being said. If you have questions about how to take something, contact the poster. Let's avoid having this escalate to an ugly thread. Let's all keep it nice.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Scott, I've always been a big promoter of licensing and insurance, that's why I was so please to hear that the PWNA was going to make it a requirement. I always tell people to check a companies status to make sure they are protected and I'm sure the PWNA and anyone else that refers out work does the same thing. That wasn't my point though.. My point is why would the PWNA give away a member benefit to someone that's not a member?

Celeste, I'm nice to everyone or at least I try to be but as we all know, online typing doesn't always show it that way.... I still think me and Scott arguing our different opinions is a waste of both of our time though, I wasn't just referring to me. Do I think I've changed Scott's mind about joining the PWNA? No, and I'm not trying to, I've just giving my own personal opinion just like he is and we both know each others positions, that's why I think this ongoing debate is a waste of our time.

I'm not throwing PWNA titles around I'm stating my personal opinion and it would be the same whether I was a BOD member or a Member or non member of PWNA...

I would still feel the same way and I wouldn't get upset if the PWNA didn't refer work to me if I wasn't a member either.. Why should they?

[John Orr 206]

Did I miss something? Does PWNA now require proof of licensing and insurance for all members? Frankly, any PW org should - if they want to truly represent the professional pwers.

[squirtgun 122]

My point is why would the PWNA give away a member benefit to someone that's not a member?

Henry,

Do you not undertsand that there is no member benefit being given away by EDUCATING the potential customer?You are only telling them we don't have a member in your area but in your search for a contractor you might want to ask for references,business license and proof of insurance.

There is no promotion of non-member companies in that statement.It's a promotion of the industry that we all as legit contractors should be making the general public aware of.I guess next you're going to tell me that the PWNA is only about promoting members and not the industry.

[Mike 64]

Celeste, I'm nice to everyone or at least I try to be but as we all know, online typing doesn't always show it that way....

How are we susposed to read remarks like this one....

"Okay Scott, even though this seems to be a waste of time that we could use for other things.. let me put this another way"

I agree with the take that the pwna should not offer referrals to non member companies... members pay their dues and should get that benefit. The thing I had a problem with was when non member companies were made out to look like uninsured, uneducated companies with no experience who are just working for beer money.

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Why would the PWNA do that? to open itself up to liability for someone that doesn't even want to support the organization?

Why wouldn't you EDUCATE them on the importance of checking license,insurance and references?There is no possible way that doing so would be a liability to the PWNA.

Comments like that are the very reason why there is an "us against them" feeling within the industry.I also don't remember complaining.I was merely sharing my view point but on some level it must rattle someone or it would not have drawn replies.

I also want to reiterate that it's not US the members against THEM the non-members - it's all about US the legal professionals against THEM the lowballing beer money weekend warrior wannabes.

Celeste,

If you can ever convince Everett,Pete M,Henry and the other BOD members of the above statement the PWNA might truely see greatness.

I will say it again "If you are going to be the voice of the industry,you are going to have to respresent all of it(member and non-members alike) in one way or another like it or not.

Come on guys stop fearing the darkside.We have milk and cookies,come on over........LOL.

Scott, I hear what you are saying and I can't see it the same way. To me it doesn't make sense for an agency to promote itself for the benifit od the sharholders (members) and then promote non-members at the same time... I feel that it would be a poor business practice... for the PWNA or any business for that matter.

If you called the NRA and asked for assistance with a legal matter... the first thing they would likely ask for is your membership ID...

[Mathew Johnson 123]

Scott... don't take the previous post the wrong way.... I respect your opinion... I just don't share the same one.

Matt

[Henry B. 4]

Did I miss something? Does PWNA now require proof of licensing and insurance for all members? Frankly, any PW org should - if they want to truly represent the professional pwers.

Yes John that's correct, the PWNA requires insurance and a business license if required in the applicants state..

[Henry B. 4]

My point is why would the PWNA give away a member benefit to someone that's not a member?

Henry,

Do you not undertsand that there is no member benefit being given away by EDUCATING the potential customer?You are only telling them we don't have a member in your area but in your search for a contractor you might want to ask for references,business license and proof of insurance.

As I said before, I imagine all of us make that reccomendation including the PWNA. Actually I believe the PWNA HQ suggests that people look in the member list for contractors instead of suggesting one member over another...

I personally feel that the PWNA has done more to educate the industry and our clients than I may have or many others individually. That's why the PWNA was formed so many individuals could work together to have a larger voice in the industry.

There is no promotion of non-member companies in that statement.It's a promotion of the industry that we all as legit contractors should be making the general public aware of.I guess next you're going to tell me that the PWNA is only about promoting members and not the industry.

No, I'm not going to say that, the PWNA is about promoting the industry as a whole but would HQ recommend a non member over a member? I doubt it but I've never checked..

[squirtgun 122]

Have it your way Henry.

I never said I thought the PWNA should promote non-members over members.I said IF there is no PWNA member in an area you wouldn't EDUCATE that person(someone seeking pressure washing) on the best way to find a legit company.

"Reality is a scarey place,that is why some people choose to live in the own world.Would you like to visit mine?"

[TRichter 14]

$195.00 a year? Does the NRA charge that much? I thought it was about 40.00 to 50.00 a year? I joined the Builders Association in Houston and it cost $400.00 a year, what did I get?, nothing. I was doing 2.5 million a year building cabinets, and it was wasted money. I never heard of PWNA until I joined numerous pressure washing forums, so they must not be promoting themselves very much or I would have heard of them before. If the common person out there doesn't know the differance, then what benifit is there? In Texas there is no licensening, what will they do for me? If I start hearing about them, then I will join, but no advertising, no benefit, no join. I do understand that it takes money to do this, but I never heard of PWNA before. Tom

[Celeste 341]

The PWNA state chapters are forming right now - You will start hearing about it..... You will read many many many different views of the PWNA, some positive, some negative. What it boils down to is that it's a business decision. Obviously you had a bad experience with the Homebuilders Assn - It's kicked us into high gear in our area..... everything works differently for everybody and it's what you make of it. As far as benefits, take a look at www.pwna.org The member benefits are listed there. It is possible that it will be worth less than $1 / day to join.

I gotta ask this, if you were doing 2.5 million annually, what was a measly $400 and pray tell - why on earth did you stop? Also, did you ever ask any of your clients if you were chosen to do their work because of your affiliation or that someone in the organization recommended you?

Celeste

[Everett Abrams 501]

Scott,

I have heard you long enough. Your comment about convincing me about non-members is ridiculous. You haven't even been in the business long enough to comment about me with that statement. For those thinking that I am stating anything about length of time in business being significant, I am not, I am using it as a reference. Scott, before there was your company I was having Roundtables for members and non-members. Most of these people were non-members. I have and continue to help non-members all over many of who have come to my place and worked with me and my crews. I do not go around publicizing what I do and who I help, that is my choice. You have no right to get on this Bulletin Board or and other forum and speak about what you know nothing about. I made a choice to join the PWNA because I felt if I was going to be critical of the organization, which I was, that I would get involved. What have I done? I have put my money where my mouth was! I was told educating people by taking Boot Camps on the road wouldn't work(We had over 100 people attend Boot Camps last year). I was told Roundtables would die out, now evolving into Chapters). I was one of the folks who was organizing these things back when(Do some searches on *** or The Deck Guide). These programs are for non-members and the industry. I have always been about the industry and not creating a club! I really do not know how you can even comment about what my views are because you do not know me and have never picked up the phone to find out, it is a toll free number! I will be at Steve's Roundtable I hope you will be there so we can meet in person and you will get the stroy straight. By the way Steve and I are friendly and last I checked he is still a non-member, that doesn't stop us from picking up the phone and being friends in this industry.

By the way, out of respect for Beth and Rod's Bulletin Board and keeping it professional I will not continue to post on this thread any responses. Those that want to talk to me can call me directly for one-on-one conversation. My toll free number is in my signature, I will even post my cell number for the first time (609)351-6117. This offer is for ANYONE in the industry who wants to talk the door has always been and will continue to be open!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Everett,

It is great seeing you here. Hope we see more of you in the future. I know you're very busy, but I also know you have a wealth of knowledge and wisdom to share. Don't be a stranger.

Beth :groovy3:

p.s. Go find your way into the wood forum.... There are some good threads there that you might enjoy. ;) :sunshine:

[squirtgun 122]

Ev,

I'm only sharing my viewpoint(you know the ranting of a crazy man) it's not meant to be offensive.You are taking my comments as a dislike/hate for you and other PWNA members and that is just not the case.We don't see eye to eye and the bottom line is that may never happen.I may not be on the same page as you where the PWNA is concerned but I think we are in the same book about where we would like to see this industry headed.

You are right we don't know each other and you never know I may just call one day.I hope we can make it to TN for Steve's meeting.I wish you could have made it down here in Feb.

P.S

Scott,

I have heard you long enough. Your comment about convincing me about non-members is ridiculous. You haven't even been in the business long enough to comment about me with that statement.

There is no need to be dismissive and degrading toward me.I have never attacked your knowledge or credilbilty in the industry as you more or less did mine with the above comment.I have great respect for a lot of people in the industry no matter if I agree with their opinions or not.

[JFife 14]

still wondering, are beth, rod, mike H, and Ron Mus, no longer involved with pwna??

[squirtgun 122]

Jon,

Sorry your thread got hijacked.I'll let Beth & Rod answer for themsleves.I think Ron & Mike H. still support the PWNA in some capacity.

[JFife 14]

No, no, that's fine, I understand there are passionate feelings on each side and I figured a pwna thread might escalate to this, but I seriously just wondered about those certain people, and if they were no longer involved, I was curious as to why. Ron Mus, you getting bashful in your old age:) Involved or Not????

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hi Jon,

I spent the last two years on the Board of Directors for PWNA. Rod and I have both put in alot of time. I needed to make some changes for a variety of reasons, so I'm not on the BOD anymore. We both still believe in the org and support it's efforts and direction.

Ron ********** is around. He's very busy with many things. He's still a member. Mike Hughes I can't say, I have not heard from him in a couple of months.

Beth

[John T 744]

Mike Hughes has another job now and he is no longer a PWNA member. Last heard he is going to try to keep his new job and also run his powerwashing business.

As for the PWNA refering anyone that is a non member I wouldn't recommend that since we don't know if the non member is licensed or insured and the repercussions can be disastrous if they aren't and something goes wrong. What I do know is that the PWNA members will have to show proof that they have at the very least updated insurance to be PWNA members and I will always recommend one of them to anyone who asked.

What Scott wants done is wishfull thinking because he is not considering the liability factors. We as the PWNA have to consider the liability factors and any repercussions that involve us.

The end result as always is if you want to see the PWNA benefit you then join. Obviously if you don't join then you will see...NO BENEFIT!! If you are looking for the benefit without joining then you will be looking forever because its not there.

[John Orr 206]

I'm somewhat confused, does PWNA CURRENTLY require proof of lic/insurance? I don't recall seeing any mention of these on the membership application.