where is pwna??

[JFife 14]

I went to the pwna board today for the first time in ages, and I got to thinking, I never hear anyone talking about it anymore. I remember beth and rod and Mike Hughes were all really involved, but i don't hear about it anymore. I don't really keep up with the pwna, as I don't see it as something that would help my biz that much, and I don't really keep up with the current happenings and debates about the pwna either. I was just wondering, are everett, beth, mike, ron **********, and all the others that were so involved still big on this?? I'm not trying to start another pwna fight, I am just curious about those people, and if they aren't involved anymore, I'd like to know why. If this is a sore subject, kill the thread or erase it, i'm just being nosy.

jon

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

It's my understanding that it is a brand new requirement.

Beth

[squirtgun 122]

John T,

Where would liability fall by giving someone a basic idea of what they might need to consider when hiring a company?Assuming there is no PWNA company in their area couldn't you simply say, " We can not recommend a non-member company to you,however,in your search you may want to check for business license,insurance and references."

What Scott wants done is wishfull thinking because he is not considering the liability factors. We as the PWNA have to consider the liability factors and any repercussions that involve us.

You and Everett have both taken your shots at me and I have done my very best to reply in a professonal manner.I sincerely hope some day we can all see eye to eye on just one topic.

[Don Phelps 85]

Either join the org or don't.....What's the big deal?

[squirtgun 122]

I guess the big deal is.....we should all be able to share our opinions or ideas on the industry without it turning into a war of underhanded comments and chest pounding.All of which I may/or/may not have taken part in at one time or another.

[PLD 14]

IF there is no PWNA member in an area you wouldn't EDUCATE that person(someone seeking pressure washing) on the best way to find a legit company.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I will offer that I agree with this statement. If there is no member in a given area, it is much better for us all to send the customer back to the yellow pages armed with some pertinent decision making criteria so they don't get taken by a fly-by-nighter. When customers get screwed we all look bad. And a national org representing XYZ trade should prevent that above all.

IMHO, the decision tree should fall as follows.

1. Help a customer, benefit a member.

2. Help a customer, benefit a non-member.

3. Help a customer, no benefit to anyone.

4. Help a customer, negative benefit to member.

5. Help a customer, negative benefit to non-member.

6. Offer no help.

And by negative benefit, I mean something like this "Here's the info you need to select a contractor. We are aware of A, B, & C contractors who are reported to be reputable, but do not meet our stringent criteria of X, Y, or Z" There are some who would argue that you should never recommend a contractor who does not meet all criteria, but a contractor who has been around in the same town 10 years and and is known for good work is a far better recommendation than letting the prospective customer throw darts at the yellow pages.

What I am hearing as the preferred MO is this:

1. Help a customer, benefit a member.

2. Offer no help.

That's not a policy that will ever get PWNA recognized by the consumer as an authoritative body, much less ever allow it to be recognized as the "UL seal of approval" for pressure washing. With that policy, the PWNA will never be seen as anything by an obscure trade organization.

Philip

P.S. Before someone starts publishing volumes about the PWNA's liability from making recommendations, I'd suggest that you spend a few days away from the lawyers, let the paranoia subside, and do some research. Yes, it is *possible* that a liability *can* result from a referral. But it's not probable. There are thousands of organizations that make contractor referrals every day without fear of culpablity. Most notably is Home Depot and Lowes. Second to mind is nearly every paint store, ace hardware, etc. in America. Third is every university in the country who refers service requests out to it's alumni.

[John T 744]

Of course if someone was to call the PWNA and to look for a member in there area to possibly do some work and there were none they can ask what should they look for in a contractor and they will get a suitable answer such as look to see that there insured etc..

This is the paranoia thats out there when people think that the PWNA will not help anyone unless there members. Of course we would answer some of the questions that are out there but would we recommend someone that is not a member???? Who really cares. If the concern is that you will not be recommended by the PWNA then just join. IF not then stop worrying about whether the PWNA will recommend you or not.

Just ask yourself can you benefit being a PWNA member or not and then move on and do what you think is best for you.

[PLD 14]

would we recommend someone that is not a member???? Who really cares.

I may. If the PWNA is merely a PW trade association then, you are right. Non-members can offer comments, but should have no expectation that that will be followed or even given an audience. However, If the goals of the PWNA include establishing itself as the industry representative for legitimate power washing, then the PWNA has chosen to represent me. If one of the goals of the PWNA is to affect/lobby industry legislation (i.e. recovery, licensing, etc.), then the PWNA has chosen to represent me. And if the PWNA is actively representing me, then I have every right to expect that my opinions will be heard or that they will cease representing me.

If the concern is that you will not be recommended by the PWNA then just join. IF not then stop worrying about whether the PWNA will recommend you or not.

I agree. But what concerns me (and I believe others) is that non-members will be portrayed as illegitimate. And while insurance and licensing are generally indicators of a legitimate business, I'm not aware that sending a check to the PWNA offers any type of protection for prospective customers.

Perhaps I'm a little bit skittish, but I am a member of two national orgs that have become so large and entrenched that they are now codified into law as the official arbiters of who may legally sell product and who may not. And for the past ten years there has been constant warfare about who got a brother-in-law approval and who got put out of business (de-licensed) because they PO'd a board member over a difference of opinion. Some of it is true, some false but all and all, it has been very destructive to everyone (members and non-members alike). It is so bad now that the national orgs are facing the potential of being stripped of their authority and the entire group (members and non) being regulated by the govt.

Bottom line, if the goals of the PWNA include establishing itself as the industry representative for legitimate power washing, then I care a great deal.

[newlook 265]

Maybe I am wrong but I don't think the general public would even call PWNA today and ask for recommendation and/or direction on picking a contractor for power washing. I am not saying or implying that the PWNA is not capable of doing this but I just think that the PWNA is not exposed to the general public to the degree that a customer wakes up one morning and say's "I am going to call the PWNA because I am thinking about getting my house power washed next week".

I do see the PWNA migrating in the right direction as it relates to localizing the awareness of the organization with the local chapters. How these chapters blossom will be vital as it relates to the general public awareness of the PWNA. When the PWNA reaches that plateau of public awareness and confidence, that is when I feel the general public can default to the PWNA (local & national) and ask for direction as it relates to selecting a contractor.

I do agree with Scott on the subject of the PWNA stating what a legitimate contractor should posses (insurance, license and etc) in the event there is not a PWNA member operating nearby. I would not expect the PWNA to recommend any specific contractor if they are not current members of the organization. I do not see the harm in the PWNA telling a customer that a contractor SHOULD have certain credentials...the PWNA requires certain credentials for membership.

On the lighter side of things, Kaui was great :) Just got back on Sat from 8 days of great weather and beautiful beaches. I will post pics later.

[tidyjet 14]

Bottom line, if the goals of the PWNA include establishing itself as the industry representative for legitimate power washing, then I care a great deal.

I couldn't agree more.

Are the vendors and suppliers we rely on making a financial or otherwise contribution to support PWNA. ie: Why the exceedingly expensive conventions and seminars? It's seeminly totally on the back of the members. I would submit that the majority of PWNA's costs/expenses should be borne by those we buy from.

In my former life as an ALPA member (Airline Pilots Asso.) my 1.8% of sal mbrship dues got me legal representation if slapped with work related violation, a voice at the gov't level, a very decent, well written monthly magazine amongst a lot of other benies.

With the exception of a fancy logo (I have my own thankyou). PWNA does not offer anything for my money.

[Celeste 341]

With the exception of a fancy logo (I have my own thankyou). PWNA does not offer anything for my money.

This one is a dead dog - members do get benefits other than the use of the logo and those benefits are increasing. You can find the benefits listed at the pwna.org website.

$195 annually is a housewash for heaven's sake. If, for once, everyone would look at the REALLY big reason we all need to come together for this - eliminating the illegitimate, lowballers...we might be able to stay on the same page.

Technically, according to some of the non-profit regulations I have read, lobbying activity is prohibited or at the very least, strictly limited.

With the births of the state chapters, the PWNA is going to be more "local friendly" and much more publicized. The chapters are SELF-GOVERNED. If you want an answer about what your local PWNA is doing, it's at your doorstep when you pick up the phone. It will become a stronger marketing tool - AGAINST THE LOWBALLERS AND ILLEGITIMATES.

And finally, if anyone has a concern about the PWNA claiming to be a representative, do what you do during the elections of our presidents, governors, etc... PARTICIPATE. The voice of many speaks much louder. The PWNA has not done anything to DAMAGE this industry - if they had, I wouldn't have sent my dues in. But if you don't want to join, geez, don't. If you can go with the flow, be successful without it, good for you - keep on keepin' on. But if you want it to work for you - join up and promote it - it's what you make of it, just like anything else.

Celeste

[squirtgun 122]

As of 10AM this morning none of this is important anymore.There are greater prorities in life that fighting about who is right or wrong about this BS.

http://www.thecleanernetwork.com/showthread.php?p=30420#post30420

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Actually, the Vendor Members have higher dues than the Contractor Members do. Also if they have a booth at the trade show, they have booth costs, etc. Also many of the vendors donate items to be raffled off or given away as door prizes. As a former vendor, I can say firsthand, you give, and give and give. What folks need to understand, is that conventions have costs. Hotels are in the business of making money, they sell the room space for both sleeping and meetings, they sell the meals, etc.

The PWNA has expenses. This is not new either. We ALL have expenses in business. I can tell you this, as a former BOD member, I went to these conventions, on my own nickle, bought the same convention tickets everyone else did, and was there longer due to BOD required meetings, so add in an extra night or two hotel stay as well. Plus, all face to face meetings were mandatory, and on your own nickle.

The point here, is that the BOD gives, and gives, and gives....of time, of money, and of personal energy. The office can not be run for free. People need money to make a living, and offices - all offices - have expenses.

In my opinion, $195.00 is not too expensive. Not after what I have seen, first hand.

Beth

[Henry B. 4]

Hey Scott,

I'm sorry to hear about your loss I've been there myself and it sucks but as you said in your post, she's not suffering anymore and she's moved on to a better place.

Henry

[squirtgun 122]

Henry,

Thank you.When things like this happen it makes the petty stuff seem pointless.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Scott,

Rod and I are very sorry to hear of your loss. We have both been through it as well. It will hurt for a long time. Hold on to the sweet and wonderful times, they can get you through some very rough days.

You and your family are in our thoughts and prayers.

Beth & Rod

[tidyjet 14]

The point here' date=' is that the BOD gives, and gives, and gives....of time, of money, and of personal energy. The office can not be run for free. People need money to make a living, and offices - all offices - have expenses.

In my opinion, $195.00 is not too expensive. Not after what I have seen, first hand.

Beth[/quote']

From what I've heard Beth you have given, given, given to PWNA both monetarily and with your expertise and received no recognition or much of anything else for that.

My hat's off to you for your efforts to all those in this industry.

[tidyjet 14]

As of 10AM this morning none of this is important anymore.There are greater prorities in life that fighting about who is right or wrong about this BS.

http://www.thecleanernetwork.com/showthread.php?p=30420#post30420

Scott,

My sincerest condolences. I've been in your shoes. Everyone copes with the loss of a loved one differently thus the grieving experience is at times lonely indeed. No one else can understand your pain. It's very personal.

Ditto. Remember the good times. Ultimately,it's all good.

I came across this shortly after losing my 19 yr old son (a bright young lad with a promising future and so very much to contribute to society) 3-yrs ago: "Our old friends are like the ship in which we sail through life. There's no replacing people like these, and there's nothing better that life has to offer. We are just fortunate to make the trip in their company".

I couldn't agree more.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Paul,

I have received quite alot actually. I receive thank you's from folks who I help, and that is the biggest thing. I love to hear success stories. I have gotten awards of recognition from the BOD as well, and those are also appreciated. But I have to say the best part, is the success of others.

Beth