Downstreaming- the wave of the future

[PressurePros 248]

Or is it the wave of the past just making it retro-chic? Ok, the fire has been stirred. What's the deal with downstreaming for house washing? You mean I spent hours awake at night thinking about how my rig is to be setup, what chemical ratios work correctly etc. and now some are figuring out the old methods are the better way? Questions....

1) What tips can you use to get an effective spray height?

2) What type of downstreamer are you using to get an effective level of hypochlorite to the house?

3) What effect is the housewash going to have over the long haul on QC's, fitting and hoses?

4) What type of detergent are you using that defies the laws of mixing and allows you to mix powdered crystals into a strong enough concentrate to be downstreamed?

5) Is this a situation dependant application or do those of you trying this think it will work for most housewashes?

[PLD 14]

Downstreaming- the wave of the future or is it the wave of the past just making it retro-chic?

Not entirely wrong. I (like many others that have not been around as long) started out with an X-Jet. I see it's flaws (the bucket) and seek a better solution. Having never downstreamed to any degree (a day or two) it's flaws (low chem ratio) are not readily apparent while it's benefits (one hose, no bucket) are obvious. Hence, the grass appears greener on that side of the fence.

1) What tips can you use to get an effective spray height?

X-Jet. I find it to get much better range when soaps are not being fed from the side.

3) What effect is the housewash going to have over the long haul on QC's, fitting and hoses?

Corrosive obviously. But IMHO I can but more fittings, I cannot buy more time.

5) Is this a situation dependant application or do those of you trying this

think it will work for most housewashes?

For me, it's not situationally dependent. I love the X-Jet. Far better than a 20ft wand and a soap tip. BUT, I want to the X-Jet without the bucket. I want no tangles between x-jet hose and HP hose. I want reliable priming with a head elevation greater than 10ft. I want no more turned over buckets of wash.

I'd love to see a twinaxial or coaxial hose that drove HP water down one path and soap down another. Add a double trigger gun and you've got (IMHO) the perfect combination. Soap to nearly any height. Instant change from soap to water. No carrying buckets. No more tangles. No more loading buckets for bleach, buckets for chems, empty buckets for xjet. Just mix enough for a days work and get busy washing.

Bottom line, there is a lot of time wasted "managing" the X-jet that could be better employed working (or not, as you prefer :) )

[PressurePros 248]

How do you downstream through an X-Jet? I thought you needed a flood tip or a dual lance gun to get a downstreamer to draw? What you describe as the perfect setup is just about achievable with the ShurFlo and the X-Jet used in unison. I tie wrap the chemical hose to my wand and have the shutoff valve right above the triger of the gun.

[VanDiesel99 14]

If you want higher concentration chems, use several downstreamers in line with each other. Each one will add more chems until you have as concentrated as you want. In theory, with enough downstreamers in a row you could have more chemical coming out then water. I am not sure if this would cause excessive back pressure, the equipment guru's will have to chime in here. But I know two downstreamers won't adversely affect your machine.

[Henry B. 4]

I've used the two chemical injector thing myself and it does work quite well. I prefer x jets though for the distance I can get.

[PWkid 79]

Hello, did you hook the two injectors together? or were they seperate inline?I have tried it on my machine and only one would draw.The first one did and the second one wouldn't draw.I have been trying to figure out how to draw through two injectors for awhile.

[Celeste 341]

I've used the two chemical injector thing myself and it does work quite well. I prefer x jets though for the distance I can get.

Henry I can get the same distance or even alittle bit more with my down stream set-up. Dont get me wrong I love my x-jets they have there place in my arsenal.

Roger

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Since we are talking strictly house washing according to the questions, The right tool for the right job is the best answer I can offer.

Using a downstream injector on days of 10-15mph+ winds on an extension wand gives you less drift to worry about since the spray is going to be heavier.

Otherwise, an M-jet/X-jet is a time saver.

Effective levels of chem to the house is determined by the concentration in your bucket to start with. Most of my mix involves surfactants, rinse agents, a foaming agent ( adds dwell time) and about 1/3 gal of bleach to a 3-1/2 gal of water. This gets rid of the mildew and algae along with the dirt and wildlife staining (for lack of a better term). The effects on my equipment is negligable compared to the benefits of completing the job quickly but effectively. Wear and tear is factored into the work.

Not always is it necessary to downstream starting at the pump. You can add one on the end of your hose before the gun sparing the hose from exposure for example.

There are a few different scenarios for the use of many tools and knowing the difference comes from experience in use and evaluation of the tool under any specific condition to understand its limitations or benefits.

Use what you are comfortable with that works best for the conditions you have present at the time.

Good questions...

Rod~

[PressurePros 248]

I'm still not understanding. How are you getting height? (other than using an extension wand) What about rinsing glass and vegetation while you are working..don't you have to run back to your rig and pull the downstreamer out or do you just change tips? On a 5 gpm machine what size nozzle would you need to use to get the chemicals flowing? I use my downstreamer to apply Sil-O-Wet with the X-Jet but I have to open the dual lance wand to get the flow going. What am I missing?

[CCPC 26]

I'm still not understanding. How are you getting height? (other than using an extension wand) What about rinsing glass and vegetation while you are working..don't you have to run back to your rig and pull the downstreamer out or do you just change tips? On a 5 gpm machine what size nozzle would you need to use to get the chemicals flowing? I use my downstreamer to apply Sil-O-Wet with the X-Jet but I have to open the dual lance wand to get the flow going. What am I missing?

You acheive height downstreaming by using a 0 degree chem tip.

you stop the flow of chemicals either by pulling the line out of the chem tank, or by changing to a high pressure tip which stops the chemical draw.

[PLD 14]

How do you downstream through an X-Jet? I thought you needed a flood tip or a dual lance gun to get a downstreamer to draw? What you describe as the perfect setup is just about achievable with the ShurFlo and the X-Jet used in unison. I tie wrap the chemical hose to my wand and have the shutoff valve right above the triger of the gun.

Your right about that. Forgot that in my glee. Had an upstreamer in mind.

I think the X-jet/shurflow combo is a great idea but I forsee several new drawbacks.

1. How do you determine chem ratios with a pressurized x-jet?

2. Hose tangle does not improve and may becomes worse.

3. Must carry 250ft handheld hose reel for x-jet hose.

4. Chems pour our nozzle if you forget to close the chem valve.

[PLD 14]

You acheive height downstreaming by using a 0 degree chem tip.

you stop the flow of chemicals either by pulling the line out of the chem tank, or by changing to a high pressure tip which stops the chemical draw.

Can anyone tell me why an X-Jet can draw at high pressure, but an injector does not? Why can we not have an injector that draws at high pressure?

If we can get a high pressure injector, you could combine a solenoid in the soap line and a wireless controller (like a keyfob) and have soap on command form the business end.

[PressurePros 248]

Your right about that. Forgot that in my glee. Had an upstreamer in mind.

I think the X-jet/shurflow combo is a great idea but I forsee several new drawbacks.

1. How do you determine chem ratios with a pressurized x-jet?

I did some very crude tests letting the shurflo empty a 5 gallon bucket (while running through the X-Jet). Three different times it emptied in about a minute and 45 seconds. That flow is about half of what my machine flows so i am assuming my ratio still stays at about 1:2 for the chems

2. Hose tangle does not improve and may becomes worse.

The poly braided hose likes to coil but I only pull off what I need. It's so lightweight it's never an issue.

3. Must carry 250ft handheld hose reel for x-jet hose.

The hose reel stays at the truck, only the hose gets pulled around. Again, lugging a lightweight hose versus lugging a cart, chem tank and 50 ft of hose. I choose just the hose.

4. Chems pour our nozzle if you forget to close the chem valve.

The chemicals will pour out of any hose unless you close off the valve, including an unpressurized X-Jet. I think most of us have found that out the hard way. You'll know your flow is still on when you shut-off your gun because the chemicals shoot 4-6 feet from the wand. With a regular X-Jet setup, the chemical leaking out is more insidious as you may easily forget the valve is open.

I am not trying to sway anyone one way or the other just to share my experience with this setup. Everyone finds what they feel comfortable with and runs with it.

[PLD 14]

1. How do you determine chem ratios with a pressurized x-jet?

I did some very crude tests letting the shurflo empty a 5 gallon bucket (while running through the X-Jet). Three different times it emptied in about a minute and 45 seconds. That flow is about half of what my machine flows so i am assuming my ratio still stays at about 1:2 for the chems

Thats what I was going to try as well. What GPM was the shurflow? Mine is 3.6 and calls for a 1/2" line. I'd have to reduce it to 3/8 for the xjet. But, since we are now charging that line instead of siphoning, could we not use 1/4" line? Much lighter, cheaper, and takes up even less space. IIRC the xjet originally shipped with 1/4 but had some issues with lift/priming.

2. Hose tangle does not improve and may becomes worse.

The poly braided hose likes to coil but I only pull off what I need. It's so lightweight it's never an issue.

I was thinking of intertwining like a candy cane as the operator moves about. Not a problem during work (actually a benefit), but a PITA when it comes to rollup.

3. Must carry 250ft handheld hose reel for x-jet hose.

The hose reel stays at the truck, only the hose gets pulled around. Again, lugging a lightweight hose versus lugging a cart, chem tank and 50 ft of hose. I choose just the hose.

Handheld was someone elses solution. I'm with you on the bucket. That's my #1 complaint with the XJ and the reason I'm inquiring about this setup and possible alternatives.

Can I get a pic of your reel? Are you running chems through it? Perhaps this is an application where a cheap plastic garden hose reel is superior to an industrial hose reel. I like the idea of two hoses paying out simultaneously through a common hose guide.

4. Chems pour our nozzle if you forget to close the chem valve.

The chemicals will pour out of any hose unless you close off the valve, including an unpressurized X-Jet. I think most of us have found that out the hard way.

True. But that is a habit I broke in about 2 weeks (and 5 wasted buckets).

You'll know your flow is still on when you shut-off your gun because the chemicals shoot 4-6 feet from the wand.

Excellent point.

Ok, one more devils advocate question. Suppose I have the chem hose tie wrapped to the gun. I change lances from 3ft, to 6ft, to 12ft frequently. How do you set that up so it does not become a huge PITA. One of my pet peeves already is a valve 36" from the XJ on the end of a 12ft lance....

[R. Williamson 14]

A downstream injector is a venturi. A pressure drop greater on the outlet side than the inlet side is what causes chemical draw. Thats why a X-Jet draws under pressure because the pressure on the outlet side is less than the orifice pressure. That is also why two injectors in a row will not work, because you will only get a pressure drop on the outlet side of the last injector.

[PLD 14]

A downstream injector is a venturi. A pressure drop greater on the outlet side than the inlet side is what causes chemical draw. Thats why a X-Jet draws under pressure because the pressure on the outlet side is less than the orifice pressure. That is also why two injectors in a row will not work, because you will only get a pressure drop on the outlet side of the last injector.

I'm not sure that's 100% accurate. It may be the design of the injector and the xjet, but venturi's work the same regardless of drop across the interface.

Also from what I hear in this forum, two injectors work fine.

IIRC, if you disassemble the xjet you will see that the chem feed is prior to the reducing orifice. Hence, the pressure at the intake port is quite significant compared to what exits the nozzle. I would venture that it is at or very near line pressure.

[Ever Clean 14]

Can someone post a picture of one of "them thar x g-ets?"