Thoughts on composites?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I thought I would get a discussion going on composites...we see them here all the time. What are your thoughts on them as a professional, and what are you running into?

Beth

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

I see few composite decks in this area but have cleaned and repaired a few.

I don't know if it is the installers fault or that the material swells but two Trex decks that I worked on had no gaps between the boards. On one deck, two boards had buckled up from swelling and had to be removed, ripped 1/4", and reinstalled. Not a fun job.

Trying to clean these two was a nightmare. Water pooled up an inch deep & I had to use the pressure washer to constantly "push" the water over the edge. The poor owners must have a skating rink in the winter.

Of course the grey "weathered" look was gone and the material reverted back to an ugly brown. Both were warned of this.

The stuff is very expensive. Why not buy and install ipe?

[RyanH 14]

I'm interested in hearing more. I don't look to service these professionally but I was very seriously thinking of installing it at my house.

Hmmm....read more on ipe I shall yes.:yoda:

[RPetry 564]

Ryan,

I think you will find ipe less expensive than composites. I replaced my deck, steps, and top rail last year with ipe and 5/4 x 6 cost $1.78 per linear ft.

The tough part is installing it correctly. The following link addresses this on another web site.

http://www.deckcare.org/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=1749&highlight=ipe+stainless+steel

Carbide tools are a must. On any cuts, make sure to apply a special sealent to prevent checking. When you get the wood at the lumber yard, there should be a waxy substance on both ends. Forget the name of the stuff but the lumber retailer should carry it.

Use stainless steel screws, preferably with a torx or square drive head. Swan Secure Products, Inc. of Baltimore, Md. sells terrific fasteners. I used their #305 Swaneze finishing stainless steel screws, size #7 x 3" with only a few stripped heads. Swan has a web site and you can order online.

With stainless fasteners and ipe, the deck will probably outlive your house!

[PressurePros 249]

I am not a fan of the composites. Expect at least 25% color fade. They are also more of a pain to clean. You have to use ultra low pressure and high concentrations of bleach make the fading even worse. Mold spores and tannin bleed still seem to be big issues even with the nwere generations. Both Timber Tech and Trex recommend sealing and the products are $50+ per gallon.

[RyanH 14]

Anybody have some pictures of these decks after 1,2, 3+ years?

[RPetry 564]

Ryan,

Thank god its raining and I can take the day off. Here's a picture I just shot.

Sanded with 80 grit after putting in about 1200 plugs, cleaned with sodium percarbonate & brightened with citric acid. Oiled with Cabot's Australian Timber Oil, Mahogany Flame color. All this was done a little over a year ago.

This deck gets full sun virtually all day. Obvious where the mat was, even that is faded. If you are going to finish it, plan on doing it every year. Ipe is so hard and dense, you can't get much oil into the wood.

But why even think of finishing it? When you mentioned considering installing a composite, I assumed one of the primary reasons was low maintenance. Ipe doesn't need a finish. Its virtually rot and insect proof, hard as nails, and water can't penetrate. The stuff sinks in water. It will naturally fade to a silver/grey color, similar to weathered teak.

[RyanH 14]

Ryan,

But why even think of finishing it? When you mentioned considering installing a composite, I assumed one of the primary reasons was low maintenance. Ipe doesn't need a finish.

I love the look of wood that is stained or sealed, especially the hard woods. I'm not a fan of the weathered gray look....more of a redwood or cedar. I don't even know where to get ipe around here (GA). I'll have to check into it. My primary reason for looking towards composite was the low maintenance but also because it seems that southern pine is the wood of choice in the south and I really have not seen any pine decks that look good after more than two weeks. Here is a picture of the what I plan on doing. The house is actually going to be white after it's painted. I threw the drawings together with PowerPoint, so they aren't the highest quality. The deck will be about 16' x 50', so understandably I don't want to have to strip and finish this thing every year or two, which was my reasoning for composite. But, if composite is going to look like crap in a year or so and will require maintenance, then I'll just put the money towards real wood and good stain (assuming I can find quality wood here).

PS---I kind of got the idea for this color scheme from a picture Reed put up awhile back. The main difference will be the brick columns over the wood. Brick will match the brick on the front of the house. I'm open to criticism on the design if anyone has other ideas.

[CCPC 26]

Wow! looks like you've got a lot of work ahead of you. Just out curiosity, are you planning on hiring out out the construction part, or are you planning on tackling the whole thing yourself? Imagine the parties and barbaque's you could throw on that sucker.

[RyanH 14]

I intend to do it on my own. I may get my brother or a coworker's son to help with some of the physical lifting, but the design and primary construction will be all on me. I love doing this stuff and can't wait. I'm not one for television, and I'll primarily be doing local washing on the weekends, so this will be my passtime. I also want to put an underdeck waterproofing on it so that the underside can be used as a pavilion.

Hey beth! Still waiting on those pics of the hottub support :) I'm thinking of having it near the stairs (concrete wall there can lend a supporting hand).

Sorry I diverted this thread away from the original intent, which was to discuss cleaning of composites.

[tropical wave 22]

composites blow...........I mean c'mon, its fake wood...if a plastic deck is what is wanted then these folks should just get one of those nice white vinyl decks....those are sweet (sarcasm).............wood is beautiful if its taken care of.....homeowners are looking for maint. free everything and they dont exist. years ago nobody wanted to paint their houses anymore so aluminum was the wave of the future, well that stunk it up, so then vinyl came along as maint. free and we now know differently.....but these issues and new inventions keep coming and we'll stay in business, because it its outside in the elements, it get dirty, it oxidizes, mold and mildew will grow on it etc etc.......

yet to have to deal with a trex deck and I'd like to keep it that way, but if I get the call, I'll be searching the board for answers......

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ryan, I went to crawl under there and it was very gross...and there were bugs. I'll dig up my blueprints and tell you what they said. I know we went wild on the supports, and opted to have extras, I think we may have had them every 4 feet if I recall correctly ( just under the tub). I'll double check.

As for the trex, run... you are far, far, far better off with a hardwood like Ipe than with that synthetic stuff. Of course, I'm a wood geek.

Beth :sunshine:

p.s. http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3404&highlight=aussie

[Everett Abrams 501]

None of these products will ever be endorsed to be "better" than wood as it stands today. They are all inferior and if it has wood content in it it needs a preservative. It was VERY irresponsible for these companies to promote their products as they did and are now retracting most, if not all, of their initial recommendations. I have seen where these products have been tested and ALL of them had significant issues in regards to mold and mildew. The problem now is that these companies have a lot of money resources to market their products. Think of composites as the equivilant of Thompson's in the coatings products.

[RyanH 14]

Ryan, I went to crawl under there and it was very gross...and there were bugs. I'll dig up my blueprints and tell you what they said. I know we went wild on the supports, and opted to have extras, I think we may have had them every 4 feet if I recall correctly ( just under the tub). I'll double check.

As for the trex, run... you are far, far, far better off with a hardwood like Ipe than with that synthetic stuff. Of course, I'm a wood geek.

Beth :sunshine:

p.s. http://www.thegrimescene.com/forums/showthread.php?t=3404&highlight=aussie

I remember this thread, but now the link I remember being there...I can't find. Thanks for the post spacing info. I realized yesterday while going over my plans that there is a high concrete retaining wall on both sides I can use as a backbone for the centerline of the hottub. As for ipe, I'm in love with all the pictures I see of it. I see places like ipedepot.com advertising it. I'll check them out.

Thanks again.

[JFife 14]

Ryan,

Should be easy to find local, check a lumber yard (not hd or lowes), maybe even 84 Lumber. If you want a premium look, you could stain it with 2 coats of Sikkens DEK.

[PressurePros 249]

If you decide to go with the ipe, call George at East Teak Lumber. He is an awesome guy, delivers on time and has very high quality lumber. (800) 338-5636. He is in SC and delivers all over.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Think of composites as the equivilant of Thompson's in the coatings products.

Ick! Yuck! Personal feeling, what a waste of money. (regarding composites)

If you want a premium look, you could stain it with 2 coats of Sikkens DEK.

We use and like the DEK product, on certain species of wood, certain height off the ground, boards in a certain condition. We don't apply DEK to Ipe, and don't suggest it. On Ipe if you plan to seal it, you need a very, very, very, very long oil.

Just my hard wood loving .02...

Beth :groovy3:

[PressurePros 249]

Just my hard wood loving .02...

Beth :groovy3:

Hey Beth, does Rod know you're out here talkin' trash? LOL, I couldn't resist.