Just finished testing 11 different chemical injectors-downstream

[5282jt 14]

Not 1 of them got over 15% even though some advertised up to 23%

I used a 25' hose on my 5.6 gpm 13hp honda pressure washer. Most ran around 9-12%

That's terrible!

Anyone know of a chemical injector that will draw around 20% or more?

I used a Quantum Super Sucker, a Robo Chem,and all the Water Canon, Envirospec oddballs I could buy.

[RogerG 14]

What type of pump do you have? The reason that I'm asking is 13hp motor is to small for a 5.6 gpm pump. You need at least 18hp. Your pump is probably not working at its full potential. If the pump is not working at its full potential then your not going to get the downstreamers full potential.

Roger

[PressurePros 248]

I get a gallon per minute uptake on my 5.5 gpm machine. (General downstreamer) so what's that, about 18%? I never have a problem removing mold and carbon buildup from siding. The keys are the right soaps, using fresh 12% s. hypochlorite, and dwell time.

Has anyone ever tried using the "double gulp" injectors? They are pricey but worth the investment if they work.

[5282jt 14]

You might have it nailed! I made the decision to replace the 4gpm pumps with 5.6 gpm pumps on my 13 hp pressure washers, without researching it 1st. Maybe that's my problem???

Been working this way for 5 years! :)

What type of pump do you have? The reason that I'm asking is 13hp motor is to small for a 5.6 gpm pump. You need at least 18hp. Your pump is probably not working at its full potential. If the pump is not working at its full potential then your not going to get the downstreamers full potential.

Roger

[5282jt 14]

Here in Florida, I seldom use any soap. Most everything here is mildew. I use fresh 12% Chlorine and a bit of Dove liquid as a wetting agent. There is no problem with removing mildew from siding, pool cage aluminum etc. I mainly want a higher % for roofs. Most of the time now, I revert to an X-Jet or Sureflo pump system.

I get a gallon per minute uptake on my 5.5 gpm machine. (General downstreamer) so what's that, about 18%? I never have a problem removing mold and carbon buildup from siding. The keys are the right soaps, using fresh 12% s. hypochlorite, and dwell time.

Has anyone ever tried using the "double gulp" injectors? They are pricey but worth the investment if they work.

[PressurePros 248]

My bad, I didn't think anyone would be wasting his time trying to find the right downstreamer to do roofs. Especially since the roof algae you guys have in FL needs to be hit with a pretty strong dilution of sodium hypochlorite. I assumed you meant for housewashing as it really is the only pertinent use for a downstreamer.

[Don Phelps 85]

Chad,

Feel free to give me a call sometime. Trying to downstream a roof is like peeing in a fan, for lack of better examples. I can save you time and make you $$$. :)

Ken,

Downstreaming on concrete can work sometimes too.

[Larry B 55]

max psi X gpm ( 5.6)= then divide by 1100 this gives you the hp needed to run pump at max.

example

3500psi X 5.6 gpm= 19600 divided by 1100= 17.81 h.p.

[5282jt 14]

I have an X-Jet and a Sureflo setup for "chemically" cleaning roofs. But I don't "chemically" clean all roofs, so in the instances where I pressure wash the roof, I prefer the highest % chem injector I can get. If a chemical injector would put out 20% chlorine, that's what I would want for pressure washing roofs. Most of the time now, I use the Sureflow system and just pump 40-50% chlorine with a bit of Dawn dish liquid as a wetting agent. That requires either a man on the ground watering plants and rinsing the roof, if it's not guttered all around. Or tarps on all the plants. Here in Florida, there's usually LOTS of stinkin' plants! :( So, the simplest 1 man job is sometimes just pressure wash it. The alternative to a good 20% downstream injector, is using the sureflow system at 20% or the X-jet and then pressure wash. Just extra bother though.

Chad,

Feel free to give me a call sometime. Trying to downstream a roof is like peeing in a fan, for lack of better examples. I can save you time and make you $$$. :)

Ken,

Downstreaming on concrete can work sometimes too.

[John Orr 206]

I recently installed a 5.5 gpm gear drive on a 13 hp Honda. (old pump died - got a deal on the gear drive) GPM is right about 5.5 and the psi is about 2500 psi. Very nice! It does not seem to effect the downstreamer - it still sucks!

[Jim Carroll 14]

I recently installed a 5.5 gpm gear drive on a 13 hp Honda. (old pump died - got a deal on the gear drive) GPM is right about 5.5 and the psi is about 2500 psi. Very nice! It does not seem to effect the downstreamer - it still sucks!

got to agree with you john.

I have been trying to figure that out if you had a 5.5 on a small motor if it would still pump 5.5 and just less pressure or if everything would be substandard. I have an 18 honda and was going to put a ts2021 general on it but was not sure if it would handle it and still give me 5.5

[COOPER 14]

max psi X gpm ( 5.6)= then divide by 1100 this gives you the hp needed to run pump at max.

example

3500psi X 5.6 gpm= 19600 divided by 1100= 17.81 h.p.

Hey Jim, Your 18hp Honda should be the perfect size for the 2021 pump.

I have had one on a 14hp Kohler for 4 years and about 4000 hours with no problems out of the motor yet. I only run it at about 2800 psi, so you shouldn't have any problems running 3500psi with an 18hp engine.

[Rfitz 14]

You only need 10% from your downstream injector, in order to remove all mold dirt etc.., as long as you are using 12% or stronger bleach / chlorine, because 1-2% chlorine / bleach will kill all mold if let to dwell 2-5 minutes at or above 50 degrees surface temp. also, dont use cheap soaps, dawn, dove, shampoo etc.. they are junk, get high quality high concentrated soap from places like pressuretek. com, or the like and use 1 gallon soap to 4 gallons of water when down streaming along with 3 gallons of bleach etc.. and with this ratio you will leave the house, building etc.. looking brand new, we wash well over 300-500 homes a year we get about 8-1 ratio with both our machines when downstreaming, if you need to know where I get mine, which are the best on the market email me and I will let you know..

and it always works well for us...:lglolly:

[John T 744]

I never was happy with any of my downstream injectors either I must have had at least 10 of them over the years. About 3-4 yrs ago I discovered the x -jet and I have never used a downstream injector again. Today I have a diesel sprayer which is similiar to what the tree companies use to spray bushes etc.. THis will be even better then the x-jet and it better be because it cost about $5000 more...But you can't go wrong with the X-jet and your shurflo sprayers.

To me those downstream injectors are a tool of the past.

[PressurePros 248]

I respectfully disagree with the you, John. I switched over (or back) to downstreaming for housewashing and never looked back. Rfitz summed up my experience perfectly. It is all in the soap (though I use more 12% than he does). You need to use something that is synergistic with the sodium hypochlorite..little hint to the backyard chemists like myself, the soap product isnt Tide, Dawn or OxyClean.

The X-Jet is a good tool for certain applications but I think everyone jumped on the wagon and touted it as the panacea to soap application issues. It's not. The distance is half of what is advertised and the dreaded chemical mist carries too far for my tastes. When I ned very high ratios on stucco or dryvit, then I use the jet.

[tropical wave 22]

question for the guys using the downstreamers....what type and size soap nozzles are you using? for distance I assume your using a zero nozzle, but what size allows you to draw chems..??

[Rfitz 14]

X Jets use to high of pressure, and take to long, I use 0040 and 0050 downstreaming and it blows xjets away 3000 sq ft houses in under 45 minutes or less ?

[Mike Williamson 198]

So, the simplest 1 man job is sometimes just pressure wash it. The alternative to a good 20% downstream injector, is using the sureflow system at 20% or the X-jet and then pressure wash. Just extra bother though.

Simple maybe, but not good for the roof! Done properly, one man can clean a roof with low pressure AND not kill the plants!

I have been trying to figure that out if you had a 5.5 on a small motor if it would still pump 5.5 and just less pressure or if everything would be substandard. I have an 18 honda and was going to put a ts2021 general on it but was not sure if it would handle it and still give me 5.5

Yes, it'll give you 5.5gpm, as long as you don't try to go above the psi rating for that motor (for example, if a 13hp engine is sufficient to give you 2500psi at 5.5gpm). If you try to go beying that limit, you'll lower the gpm.

You only need 10% from your downstream injector, in order to remove all mold dirt etc..,

Hey, Rob...good to see you back after so long. I have to disagree on the 10% draw statement...That works in many cases, but I have run into situations where it wasn't enough, and the Xjet was required. And as for roofs, you can try downstreaming them, but as Don pointed out, it's like peeing into a fan...

I never was happy with any of my downstream injectors either I must have had at least 10 of them over the years. About 3-4 yrs ago I discovered the x -jet and I have never used a downstream injector again. Today I have a diesel sprayer which is similiar to what the tree companies use to spray bushes etc.. THis will be even better then the x-jet and it better be because it cost about $5000 more...But you can't go wrong with the X-jet and your shurflo sprayers. To me those downstream injectors are a tool of the past.

You're either using a crappy downstreamer, or doing something else wrong. I used to think like you do, until someone convinced me to try a different downstreamer...now I downstream almost exclusively, get things as clean as you can with the Xjet, and I'll do it faster. No filling buckets, dragging that cursed thing around a house, etc etc. It has its place, but that place is not everywhere.

[Mike Williamson 198]

X Jets use to high of pressure, and take to long, I use 0040 and 0050 downstreaming and it blows xjets away 3000 sq ft houses in under 45 minutes or less ?

Rob:

Seems nothing has changed. I'm confused by your statement...In light of another statement you made a few months back...

And how do you clean a house in "under 45 minutes or less"?

We almost always 90% of the time X-jet, you will always get much better results, soaping from bottom up rinsing top down, we average approx. 1 hour for an average 2500 sq ft house, usually more like 45 minutes, I use a 6 GPM machine to apply soap and my 8 GPM for rinsing with a 0070 tip, it cuts rinsing time by 50-70%, one guy is soaping 2 sides then the other comes behind him and rinses with the monster 8 GPM, on average 6-8 houses a day is pretty easyily done if they arent too far away from each other, now if we add gutter scrubbing in with the house wash which in molst cases is the same price as the house wash, you can add another 40-50 minutes to the whole process, but on average a 2500 sq ft home along with gutter scrubbing/washing averages around $450 to $650 for approx 1.5 to 2 hours of work...

[bforbis 14]

Just curious about the length of hose you are using in your testing. How far from the injector to the outlet? I know the length of hose will change the injectors ability to perform. I think the advertisement for % draw is based on a very short run of hose.

When I first set up my machine I could not run much more than 100' of hose and expect the injector to work. When I went to 200' nothing at all. I have to run with 200' + to reach areas so I use the XJ. Not totally happy with it b/c it does not really reach as far as advertised and the back spray is pretty bad.

I certianly can not clean a 2500 sf house in under 1 hr and do a good job of it. I also not using 8gpm machine. Just one person, 5 gpm, warm water, chemicals applied thru bucket XJ, scrub gutters.

I would like to revisit the possiblity of downstreaming, but I don't see it with the back pressure on thehose length etc. Open for suggestions and comparisons tohelp me see the light!!!!!

Thanks

[PressurePros 248]

I am not an engineer nor a wizard with formulas so I am asking this honestly. Why would there be more back pressure with a longer hose? I have run 200 feet of hose with no issues from my DS'er. Is there a formula out there for loss? When I did my testing to determine how much draw I was getting I used what was on my reel which is 150 ft.

[bforbis 14]

It's been a few years since I've done the calculations but here's a stab at it for a quick explanation:

There is a drop in pressure from point A to B based on the energy required to move the liquid from A to B, plus any bends, restrictions etc. It can be calculated from the diameter of the hose, flow, and density of fluid and of course the length. It is usually given per foot of length for similar diameters.

Also, within the injector there is a ball and spring mechanism. That creates another resistance to the flow. If the ball is oversized for the flow, it will not pull chemicals. This is based on Bernouli's Equation. It basically states that for an increase in velocity there will be a decrease in pressure. The increased velocity comes from a restriction, any restriction. When that pressure drops within that restriction, you lose the ability to draw chemcials!

My point :was to point out a comparison of how your machine is set up with flow,psi, length of hose....Results will vary from machine to machine if they are set up differently. I would expect that is why you got less than advertised results of uptake in your experiemnts.

I sincerely apologize if this is spitting hairs for some, but there is a little more to it than grabbing this or that if you really plan to apply chemicals at a particular and specified rate.

You were doing a great job of an experiment!!!! Testing your equipment and getting good results and as I expected.

[bforbis 14]

The above notes were based on Bernouli's Equation: It basically states that for an increase in velocity there will be a decrease in pressure. The increased velocity comes from a resitrcition, any restriction. The ball in the injector, at the gun and bends all create a loss in pressure. Where there is a pressure drop you loose the ability to draw chemicals