JFife 14 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 Does anyone use a tiered-restoration model; like a gold-silver-bronze service structure?? And bid/present it each time, not just if you find the wood needs sanded/requires a premium product, etc. Theories/ideas?? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Celeste 341 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 I believe that Ken Fenner has this type of structure on his housewashing - I personally don't see how one would apply this in the wood field. Then again, we may be on the anal retentive end of how we want the end result to be and to what extent we will go to achieve it ? Celeste Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 seymore 90 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 Jon We offer 1 tier of restoration and that is a complete removal of existing stain.I will not sacrifice my quality of work for a lower price.The clientele I work for looks for quality before price.I'm usually not the lowest price bid they recieve but our experience and track record speaks for itself. So i will adjust my cleaning prices depending on the difficulty of removing the existing stain. I will also only use the Gray Away we carry and no other stain a customer might request.We have become well known for the Gray Away and customers seek us out especially for the stain. Now NEW wood is pretty simple ...we have a minimum cleaning price and then a set sqft price for decks and fences and arbors. Cedar house restoraton job prices vary depending on the difficulty etc. Oh yeah by the way Jon you still coming to Austin anytime soon? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 newlook 265 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 We offer a Power Wash Standard Package and a Power Wash Deluxe Package. Difference between the two is in the deluxe package we hit the gutters/downspouts and do all flat work (sidewalks, driveways and etc) Price difference between the two runs around $200.00 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Russell Cissell 65 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 I would agree that the translation is difficult to make in the wood restoration industry, but we used to sell two levels of service for house washing. In the event that a customer was not inclined to have us "detail" their house often we would offer to "street clean" the same house at a discounted price. The idea being the house would look fantastic from the street. The price differential was reflective of the time savings between the two services. Typically a "street clean" would include treating and rinsing with an x-jet. Rinse aid for the windows and a Zep wax on the siding. A detail would be what everyone would want if money was not an issue. We would even detail the mail box if there was one. I agree with Shane in regard to wood. There is only one right way to do it and it will be slightly different with every job. For instance we would never bid Cleaning vs Striping. To the contrary, I am in favor of the up charge. For instance if there are a number of wasp nests to contend with, we make note. If the cedar home we are bidding is surrounded by thorn bushes or steep cliffs it will effect the completion time. This is not so much a tier pricing as building in a buffer. We have a base price per square foot however we may go up a bit as circumstances dictate. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 We have offered different things in the past (year ago). The problem is, when the homeowner (this was for decks by the way) doesn't listen, or read, and won't take responsability for the choice they make. They opt for a wash, not a strip, and then don't understand why the result is what it is, regardless of how much you explain to them why the should opt to have the deck stripped. What we do now, is offer one option on jobs that we see would otherwise turnout less than favorable. We opt for the best service only. On jobs where the results will be superior at even the most basic service level, we might give an additional option. A few years back thee was a carpet cleaning company here local to us, that we used to bump into when estimating. One time a client showed us the liturature. In addition to haveing no clue how to calculate a square foot, the choices for Plan A, Plan B and Plan C would only lead any homeowner to the most expensive option. As I recall, the options read something like.... Plan A - Deck is washed with high pressure, and no cleaners. Will cause damage. One coat Sikkens will be applied. Plan B - Deck is washed with high pressure and no cleaners. Will cause damage. One coat of oxylic is applied. One coat of Sikkens is applied. Plan C - Deck is washed with low pressure, Oxylic is applied, one coat of Sikkens is applied. I kid you not. Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 There is much ignorance out there and a tiered service system has backfired on us as well. We gave an estimate for a deck previously coated with cwf/uv cedar. 2 options 1st-strip the deck and then apply sealer. $$$$ 2nd-wash the deck and then re-coat. $$$ The customer opted for the lesser and didn't take into account our informing them that the product may not be completely even in color due to UV discoloration. Well, as you can guess, they were not happy with the result regardless of what expectations we could give them in the proposal and they complained about it anyway pleading basically ignorance and that they were not told that it would turn out like this. We stood behind our work and applied more product to their liking knowing full well they had been informed...we both were there. The lesson learned is as Beth stated, we only offer the best possible service so that when it is done we know that there will not be any variables to bite us in the behind. Unless we know what is on the deck, how long it has been installed and perhaps even who did it will we consider offering any alternatives. Any warranty is conditional as such, informed in advance and in writing. Someone else said it quite well...If we didn't put it down, it comes off and we will warrant it. Otherwise we will not bid it. In the business world we have learned its not good time spent to deal with the problematic previous installation nor is it a good reflection on us if we appear in any way at fault. We know we produce quality and now understand that quality must start at the beginning. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Ethan 14 Report post Posted December 31, 2005 I use a method that gives my customers a price break if they have a larger fence than others. If they have a fence that is over 2000SF, I will give a $.02 deduction per square foot. This goes for clean and seals as well as seals only. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Jarrod 22 Report post Posted January 2, 2006 Beth, did I read you right? A CARPET CLEANER?! WOW, talk about branching out LOL! Jon, great question, I have to agree with everyone here - 1 price - 1 way. This would also be a great question for the fleet washing section. I am starting to do my fleet wash bids like that and people like it so far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Larry B 55 Report post Posted January 2, 2006 Not too highjack this but that is how I do trucks. Most take option "A" ( the cheapest) wich is fine because it is a lot faster and I can actually do more units/hour and make more $$. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PressurePros 249 Report post Posted January 2, 2006 The tiered approach has to be viewed from an angle of upselling services not changes in quality of performance. This is why I don't think you can use it in wood restoration. Wood has to be done correctly. Letting a customer choose a "cheaper" route will absolutely backfire on you and make you appear to be a putz. Property cleaning is a whole different story. You add or subtract services as the customer dictates. If they don't want the gutters manually scrubbed or a wax/ polymer added they can save some money. People are used to this type of choice as they see it every time they pull into a carwash. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 JFife 14 Report post Posted January 2, 2006 arrgghh, ....wrote a big long post last night and my comp. kicked off before i could submit it. I think we've missed the direction I had anticipated this going in. I agree, one right way, but..........I was moreso considering adding a buffing package, a sanding package, a multiple-coat stain package, etc. Not doing things wrong.......doing things differently and more intensive. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PressurePros 249 Report post Posted January 2, 2006 LOL, I had that happen a couple of times and it's very frustrating. I figured that's where you were leaning when you asked about quality. I'm sure it would work and adding in the new two part system of DMC and Wood Tux sealing could even be interesting to some people. It's well worth exploring. In my short sightedness, I still see adding the things you mentioned as part of the "right way" of doing things. Leaving off buffing the fuzzies, sanding handrails where they are dangerous to little hands are not options and are to be figured into the cost of the restoration job. By multiple coat I am assuming you mean the two part system from ES? Again, following the manufacturer's recommendation as to how many coats should be applied is not an option to me. It should be done with th cost of doing so explained to the customer and factored in. In theory, you could add finite additions to service. "Mr Customer, in addition to our usual thorough job, we have a next level of service where the floor of the deck would be sanded down and brought back to like new. To keep the deck from splintering again I also recommend going with a proprietary system JFife Decks offers. We apply a mositurizing conditioner that stays deep in the wood and then we apply a sealer that locks in that conditioning and keeps mositure out. It offers unparalleled protection." That sounds great but what would be your cost to add this? For me on a simplified 20x'20' with rails I'd start at $895 for a straight up restoration and add at least $600+ for option two. Being on the high side to begin with a customer would invariably compare my $1500 to Company B's bid of $575. I'm not saying I couldn't sell it to an educated customer but it would be tough. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 James 625 Report post Posted January 2, 2006 yes- my customer has a choice the first couple of quote's then mine. This could be considered tiered ? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Littlefield 65 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 Jon, Yes I like to offer a couple different levels, but not bronze , silver, gold. I like paper or plastic. ;) And doesn't all this only one way to do it right salesmanship go directly contrary to the everyone has a different way thread about using hot water or not, etc, etc. How about theres more than one way to skin a cat What if my customer has to have a gloss finish to one up the Sikkens job next door? How about if they can't stand the candied look? What about offering and explaining the difference between brush buffing, pad buffing, and sanding? Cob or chems? low maint coatings or regular maint coatings? Water or oil? On verticals or horizontals? How about humidity levels and sun exposure? Are all you guys telling me you have only one way to prep wood, ever??? And after you do that prep, only one stain you would ever use for every application???? Say it isn't so... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Aplus 525 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 Are all you guys telling me you have only one way to prep wood, ever??? And after you do that prep, only one stain you would ever use for every application???? Say it isn't so... Only one way to prep, and I have two different stains that I offer. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 PressurePros 249 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 Rich, I think you may be, at least in my circumstance, misunderstanding. This post isn't really about methods of prep in my opinion. I think your confusion may be in the terminology. One way to 'do it right' means the customer ends up with a deck that is 1) mold and pollutant free 2) is not tore up 3) has a sealer that will last the life of the manufacturer's warranty. How you get to that finale is subjective. If one's market can bear the added expense of cob blasting, [that is] excellent. In my post I am looking at the wood resto market as a whole and as it currently stands. In my business model I target a culmination of high margins versus diminishing customer count. It is a tedious balance. I also have to take into consideration of what my market will bear. While I would love to walk around and offer a 'GREEN' version of a restoration where no detergents are used and there is so much profit I have a few days to work on a deck, it's just not real world. There is only so much customers are willing to pay to have a deck cleaned when in 12-18 months it may look pretty crappy again. Yes, educate the customer, assess his needs with the right questions..use your skill in the field to make expert suggestions as to product choice. How does this have anything to do with a tiered sytem though, Rich? I try to present opinions that make people think. I may take a devil's advocate approach to achieve that. Take it like this, Rich. There is only one way to tighten a bolt.. in the direction of the threads. But that is not to say you cant use a ratchet, box end, a pair of pliers or your fingers to get it on there. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 JFife 14 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 Rich, As I expected, your thinking is right in line with mine. This probably would have been a better question to just ask a log restoration crowd, but it would not have got many responses. The reason I say that is because there is a vast amount of ways to properly restore a log home, many different types of stains, all which perfom/appear/maintain differently. The deck market has, well, fewer ways to properly do a job. With homes, there are a hundred different ways to do things correctly. For instance: Strip, brighten, TWP (basically what everyone does to their decks) Strip, brighten, BUFF, TWP Cob, borate, TWP Cob, borate, sand, TWP Cob, borate, three coat waterbase Cob, borate, buff/sand, three coat waterbase (etc. etc., etc.) There is nothing wrong with any of these methods, all will look different and weather differently, and be maintained differently. Where it gets tough, is trying to sell this idea. "Here are your five choices for a job." "homeowner: which will last the longest?" "Depends on what kind of maintanance you want to do" "Why should I pay more for sanding, blah, blah, blah" I was just curious if others offered a tiered approach. I've tried it and been unsuccessful, and nothing short of confusing to the customer. Now I just look at the job and determine what is the best thing for that SPECIFIC job, when looking at the desired appearance, what kind of maintenance they want to do, the value of the home, the customers "perfection" level, etc. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 kevinw 14 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 We tried the tiered approach some time ago. I thought it would help us pick up more biz from customers that balked at the price of premium service. I found out it was like the old saying about passing in football...3 things can happen and 2 of them are bad. Some customers were just confused. We offered pictures, graphics, etc. and they couldn't seem to make up their minds. Closing rate went down. Some customers called after completion to complain that their deck didn't look like they were wanted it to look, even refused to make payment. Call backs went up and we wound up staining/sealing for free just to keep customers happy. Some customers tried to use the lower tier pricing to negotiate down the premium service..."I'll let you do my deck if you'll do the Gold level for the Bronze price." We starting giving out the name of the guy that hangs his flyer on the phone pole by the stop sign..."Seal Your Deck for $400.00". Closing rate went down, call backs went up, profits went down. We stopped offering a tiered approach. For us, KISS works really well. Show the customer what you're going to do, what it will look like, give references, show up on time, under promise/over perform...and return calls promptly. It works every time. Kevin Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Celeste 341 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 I spoke to a very smart individual today, lots of work in log homes, who told me that with logs, you develop a relationship with the homeowner first, you maintain the relationship with the House. As far as what we offer for the work we do, we determine what the job needs to look and perform its best and price accordingly. The customer gets a full breakdown of what we're doing, but no options to delete a service. In other words, if it's a severe strip and there's going to be defelting, it's in there. Only real upsell we do for decks is a two tone. The other processes are required and we perform them. Celeste Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 steve r 14 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 thats a girl tell them .ill try to get ya some fish when i go to my parents Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 Very interesting thread...:corn: Beth Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 JFife 14 Report post Posted January 3, 2006 KevinW verbalized exactly what has been my experience. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Littlefield 65 Report post Posted January 4, 2006 Jon, mine too. Five choices is too much for anybody. I don't think different levels of quality are a viable tiered system. Stains that give different long term results, with homeowner educated, is a different matter. Guys, please keep in mind that the "wood resto market" is a lot more than just staining decks. Once you get into vertical surfaces, the choices really go up. Due to differences in number of coats, application method, etc, you can very easily offer a tiered COST system that makes sense to everyone. I think the big difference here is tiered cost, not quality..... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
0 Littlefield 65 Report post Posted January 4, 2006 Reply to #17- Ken, I respect your take on this. I was doing a little devilish advocating myself. I too work in the real world, believe me. East coast log restoration is not a piece of cake. Southern Appalachian work is harder still. I work in an area that is filled with baby cabins. Not a lot of cash floating around. However, I do focaus on giving my customers the best job I can, hence a lot of my cob blasting. Please don't mistake my use of alternative prep methods as evidence that I work in an alternate reality where market share, demand, and good salesmanship don't work just like wherever you're from in PA. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Does anyone use a tiered-restoration model; like a gold-silver-bronze service structure?? And bid/present it each time, not just if you find the wood needs sanded/requires a premium product, etc. Theories/ideas??
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