General Q about your set ups

[Richard Ivy 14]

Trying to keep my questions focussed and in the right forums, so hope this is ok.

I have alluded in some of my other questions about where you get your water supply from.

Now, I have been reading about GPM being more important that PSI for cleaning - am I right in thinking that this is because you tend to let the chemicals do the work, not pressure?

Secondly, and more about the water supply, do you guys generally carry a water tank with you to jobs, either full of water, or you fill it from the customer's supply? I can see huge implications for me if this is the case vis-a-vis a vehicle to buy (or more likely a truck and trailer?)

So, you carry your water, meaning you have hefty trucks and/or trailers, and add the detergent/chemicals to the tank if 'upstreaming', or add the cehms to another bottle of some kind, much smaller, and draw the correct mix from there, which you call 'downstreaming'?

Finally, you can regulate the amount of chemicals with this thing called and x-jet, and/or you regulate the amount by altering the mixture in the chemical container (when downstreaming.?)

Sorry for several points in one post - if they can be addressed, then thank you. I have been reading the FAQs etc., and these are the questions that I have come up with so far.

Brilliant site, btw, well-impressed.

Richard :)

[RogerG 14]

Trying to keep my questions focussed and in the right forums, so hope this is ok.

I have alluded in some of my other questions about where you get your water supply from.

Now, I have been reading about GPM being more important that PSI for cleaning - am I right in thinking that this is because you tend to let the chemicals do the work, not pressure?

I let the chems do alot of the work. You are right higher GPM will allow you to work at a faster rate. When I wash a house I use around 600 to 700 PSI at the tip. What that means is that the house is being hit by about 450 PSI because of the distance the tip is away from the house.

Secondly, and more about the water supply, do you guys generally carry a water tank with you to jobs, either full of water, or you fill it from the customer's supply? I can see huge implications for me if this is the case vis-a-vis a vehicle to buy (or more likely a truck and trailer?)

I will carry about 75 gals. of water with me to start with, but I do hook up to the customer's water supply. The water I take is so I dont have to wait for the tank to fill up to the point that I can start.

So, you carry your water, meaning you have hefty trucks and/or trailers, and add the detergent/chemicals to the tank if 'upstreaming', or add the cehms to another bottle of some kind, much smaller, and draw the correct mix from there, which you call 'downstreaming'?

You don't add your chems to your main water tank. A upstreamer will have a supply hose that you put in your chem bucket, it's before the pump(not recommended). Downstreaming has a supply hose also but it is after the pump. Which is better for long life of the pump. I downstream my house wash. For me it's faster than x-jetting, less stuff to drag around, unload and load back up.

Finally, you can regulate the amount of chemicals with this thing called and x-jet, and/or you regulate the amount by altering the mixture in the chemical container (when downstreaming.?)

The x-jet is different than downstreaming. When x-jetting you are appling chems at high pressure unless you put the fan tip on, downstreaming is done at low pressure.

Sorry for several points in one post - if they can be addressed, then thank you. I have been reading the FAQs etc., and these are the questions that I have come up with so far.

Brilliant site, btw, well-impressed.

Richard :)

Don't think twice about asking questions here. That's one of the reasons why it's here.

Roger

[PressurePros 249]

I'll answer a couple for you, Richard. You are correct about the use of chemicals doing the lion's share of the cleaning thus the higher flow rate (gpm) is used to rinse. A higher flow rate will make you more efficient. Here is a ridiculous analogy but one that puts things into perspective. Imagine you are washing dishes. You pull a plate from the sudsy water and its time to rinse. Would you be more apt to finish quicker using a spray bottle with pressurized water to rinse or using the lower pressure flow from the faucet? Besides doing flatwork like concrete, I very rarely go above 1000 psi but my machine flows 5.5 gpm and often I wish it was more like 8 gpm.

I carry a small reserve water supply in my truck (50 gallons). Some may consider that more of a float tank than a water supply and they would be right. I use customer's water primarily. Municipal supply in my area is fine 99% of the time. For me, I have to test the customer's flow rate from the spigot before I take the job. My feeling is if you aren't going to have a real resererve tank (250 gallons+) at the very least you need a decent float tank with the bypass line on the unloader plumbed into it.

The water supply always stays clean. You never add chemicals to it. In fact, get yourself a high quality, see through, filter to install inline on the supply side of the machine. Up- and down- streamers usually have a small flexible tube attached to them. This device can be attached prior to the pump allowing chemicals to get circulated through expensive parts where the chemicals will corrode and cause premature damage. I do not know a single professional that uses an upstreamer setup like this. The other alternative of downstreaming is the one I employ. It is a simliar setup with a short length flexible tube attached to hardware. The major difference being where it is placed in the "assembly line". It is located after all the working parts of your machine plumbed into the output side of things (the high pressure hose). This tubing is placed into a bucket of detergent. Most downstreamers will dilute your detergent so much that you won't have a need to meter. I prefer to adjust the strength of the chemicals in the bucket whether I am using downstreaming or an X-Jet.

The final method of chemical injection is the X-Jet. If you consider the progression of where an upstreamer and a downstreamer go in the "assembly line" the X-Jet is the very last in line. It is a piece of stainless steel (don't underestimate it's design or buy a cheaper substitute) that goes onto the end of your lance in place of a regular high pressure nozzle. It also has a tube that gets inserted into a bucket of detergent. The X-Jet is the king of ratio draw. Where with a downstreamer you will be lucky to get one part water to five parts chemical, the X-Jet will draw one to one. There is a metering system that comes with the X-Jet so you can adjust but I think most of us do not mess with the tiny pieces of plastic that adjust venturi size. Again, learn your detergents and adjust dilution in the bucket. The X-Jet is an impresive piece of hardware that will shoot chemicals fairly high into the air. You will hear some exagerated claims of exactly how high, but in my opinion this tool is a 'must have' in the arsenal of a professional. The bigest downfall is carrying a bucket of chemical around with you that limits mobolity and can cause damage to grassy surfaces if it falls over (which can be quite often until you get used to it)

PS: Some of these answers are redundant as Roger and I posted at the same time.

[Richard Ivy 14]

Well Ken and Roger - many thanks for the comprehensive replies; I think I'm gettign closer to understanding how things work. Some of the confusion is in the terminology, but that's sorted for the most part.

Where you use a lance to get you up high, it sounds like the spray goes fairly widely over the house - the roof (if that's what you're doing), certainly the sides of the house and the windows and on the ground.

Even this x-jet fitting dosn't concentrate the jet into a pin-point, and nor is that the idea - the idea being to let a large amount of water and chemical to settle on the building, and cling. You then let it dwell and then rinse.

Presumeably you can judge how long this is for, given the chems you are using? You then rinse, being mindful of 'etching' the window glass (is this certain chems that do this?)

Sometimes you use heated water, sometimes not. Sometimes chems are used on driveways, sometimes not.

Are these basic statement pretty much true?

Thank again. :)

ps, in an ideal world, would you wrap the entire house in a plastic bag and fill that bag with chems and water, let it dwell and then remove the bag and throw a couple of lakes of water over it to rinse? (obviously not literally!)

[Scott Stone 604]

Now, I have been reading about GPM being more important that PSI for cleaning - am I right in thinking that this is because you tend to let the chemicals do the work, not pressure?

Volume is king. It is easier to clean something with a high volume than a low volume.

Secondly, and more about the water supply, do you guys generally carry a water tank with you to jobs, either full of water, or you fill it from the customer's supply? I can see huge implications for me if this is the case vis-a-vis a vehicle to buy (or more likely a truck and trailer?)

I do a lot of work that requires me to have a water supply, and may be washign at a job site for 8 hours or more, that is machine hours. My smallest trailer is 325 gallons, my biggest is 525 gallons. They are both designed with a particular job in mind. I prefer the bigger tank, especially when we are loading from a static tank. (I have some jobs that 525 gallons is not near enough to do, and there is no close water access. So I set up a static tank with a float that is always hooked up, and then use a big pool pump to pump water from it to my wash tank. A little ponderous, but it is a great gig.) I also have some jobs where we amy 30 stops in a row, that all take 10 minutes, literally, and none of them have water access, so we use the tanks there, as well.

So, you carry your water, meaning you have hefty trucks and/or trailers, and add the detergent/chemicals to the tank if 'upstreaming', or add the cehms to another bottle of some kind, much smaller, and draw the correct mix from there, which you call 'downstreaming'?

Think as the soap injector as a proportioning device. There is a soap tank with a low pressure hose running to it, and the high pressure water is running through the injector. As it goes through, it proportions the chemicals to the volume of water. so you will need a stand alone soap tank

Finally, you can regulate the amount of chemicals with this thing called and x-jet, and/or you regulate the amount by altering the mixture in the chemical container (when downstreaming.?)

See above, but an X-jet is way to send the soap at the surface to be cleaned at pressure. There are advantages and disadvantages to using one. FOr what I do, they are not efficient. So you will need, on a case by case basis, decide if it works for you.

Sorry for several points in one post - if they can be addressed, then thank you. I have been reading the FAQs etc., and these are the questions that I have come up with so far.

Brilliant site, btw, well-impressed.

Richard :)

Well, there you go. That is my opinion, but I do different types of work than most people onhere.

Scott Stone

[Jeff 232]

Richard, these are some pictures of the Xjet in use. They're not real close ups but you can get the picture. The Xjet is attached at the end of the gun/wand. The first pic is an Xjet attached right to the gun with quick connects

You'll see there is a hose coming off the Xjet that is the hose that draws/sucks up the chemical from a bucket. my hose is about 35 ft long. That is the major draw back about an Xjet, you have to carry the hose around & a bucket, but other than that I love the Xjet. The bucket & hose dont really bother me, when rinsing I pull the hose off, I'll coat a big section with chem, pull hose off and rinse. Sometimes I use a 5 gallon bucket with the chem or a 15 gallon drum and walk it around on a 2 wheeler dolly. The Xjet draws more chem than other ways and thats what I also like about it. The newer M5 Xket comes with an adjustable fan head, it closes up to a more direct pattern or opens to a nice size fan. The Xjet can shoot 20-30 ft tops, much less when the fan is open. The adjustable fan is great for when your in close areas. The chemicals only go through the Xjet, not the pump, hose or even the wand. It has a shut off valve close to the tip so you can turn the chemical on & off ass you need it, shut it off and you r rinsing with just water, turn it on and you have water chem mix. In a five gallon bucket you would use about 2 gallons of 12.5% chlorine/bleach some soap and the rest water, there are some other additives you can mix in such as wax, rinsing agent

The Xjet is a handy tool, Hope the pics help show what it is & can do

Good luck

JL

[Richard Ivy 14]

Thanks Jeff, all really useful stuff.

Richard.