I need a gun

[CCPC 26]

I need to buy a hand gun, but have little knowledge or experience with guns. I know some of you have guns, and some of you are police officers any advice on pro's and con's of different hand guns would be great.

[PressurePros 249]

What are you going to use it for? If for home protection I would recommend something that is single action since you have no experience as a shooter. I started with a model 19 S&W. It's a .357 with a small barell (2.5" ?). The sound from this thing alone would scare off an attacker. It definitely has a bark. Load it with .38 ammo for less of a kick.

I have a Walther PPK stainless now. It's a .380 If you ever saw the gun carried by James Bond, the one with the round hammer, thats it. It's been reliable, accurate and carryable. I load with "non ricochet" rounds. I doubt there is anyone big enough that it wouldn't knock down.

If I were going to buy something strictly for home protection it would be a Para-Ordnance P14.45. Loaded with 14 rounds of .45 ACP a pistol marksman could hold off an assault squad.

Make sure you practice with any gun. I go to the range once per month to stay sharp and make sure the pistol is in good working order.

[Douglas Hicks 128]

Oregon law requires a permit to carry concealed. One of the requirements is to be fingerprinted and have your name run through LEDs. We also had to take an NRA gun saftey class. Any gun shop in the area should be able to help you contact NRA for the time and place of a class.

Why do want a gun? Is it for personal protection? Have you thought about if you can shoot someone? Carrying a weapon requires some serious thought.

The .380 is a good choice for concealed carry. The .357 is more than I want to carry, or even aim.

Douglas Hicks

General Fire Equipment Co of Eastern Oregon, Inc

[CCPC 26]

I been giving the gun thing a lot of thought for the past couple of years. The short answer to why I want one is for the "just in case" senerio. To elaborate, I think Americans, including myself, have become way to comfortable in the're confidence that this country will stay strong, and provide all the security they need. For most Americans, the thought of complete anarchy in the U.S. is somthing unimaginable.

I've been planning and trying to make simple preperations for such events, I believe having some level of protection for my family and I is part of smart planning. Frankly, if the S##t hits the fan, I don't want to be a sitting duck.

With a 14 year old in the house, the gun will have to be locked up, I'm not really interested in having it available for a home invasion, more so for reasons described above. I do plan for my fiancee and I to take some classes on handling and saftey.

[Larry B 55]

See if there are any indoor shooting ranges you can go to. Some of them rent guns. This is a great way to get a feel for what you want and can handle. One thing about guns is you usually get what you pay for. The cheaper imitations have flaws that cause reliabilty issues and they are not as fun to shoot either.

Look at ammo affordability also. For just in case ammo it is hard to beat 9mm. Still used by the military and very easy to come by. I also consider 9mm to be the smallest of the reliable manstoppers.

[timbertramp 14]

I have several hand guns, both wheel and auto. If I was going to buy just one and not use it much, I would go with a single action .357. You can shoot .38 ammo and not have the big recoil.

The most important thing is to take a firearms safety class and have your son take it with you. Most ranges or shooting clubs will be glad to assist you with the class and help you find a weapon that would work best for you. Kem

[JFife 14]

Lance,

First, though I am not a father, I'll offer this--talk openly about guns with your son (or whatever the relationship is). Maybe even through hunting--teach him to respect firearms and their power....and he will. I think one good reason to take kids hunting is that they see "death" and how serious it is. Seeing something die before your eyes is powerful and a good lesson for kids, especially boys. THIS IS NOT AN OPENING TO A DEBATE!! MERELY MY THOUGHTS ON GUNS.

As far as guns go, just like a roof cleaning chemical, find what works best for you in your application. Things like the size of your hands, preference of sites, etc. will all be factors. Get what "feels" right. I love my Sig Sauer handguns. I'd not want anything else. Chambered in 40cal, it would be a show-stopper. Next choice would be Colt.

For the purposes you've outlined, I'd suggest considering a 12 gauge shotgun, or the Street Sweeper. You won't miss if you are nervous with a shotgun.

[Celeste 341]

Jon makes a very good point about indicating to your son what a gun can do. I did not have to go the the extent of killing an animal when demonstrating the power of handguns to my daughters - watermelons and pumpkins were very effective splatfests. We have multiple firearms in our home since we're both avid hunters - we've never had one child even so much as TOUCH one (knock on wood) without one of us present. We also keep them unloaded and trigger locked as well as a cable with an audible alarm on it. Our elementary school went as far as to give away trigger locks this past fall!

Celeste

[RyanH 14]

If you get an automatic handgun, go with a Glock. I carry a model 21C (.45 ACP, 13 rounds) or a model 26 (9mm "baby glock"). Glock also has very good .40 and .357 and .380 calibers. Most officers I know carry a .40 because of it's capacity and stopping power. All are very reliable (never had a jam) and simple to operate. No safety switch, but there are safety mechanisms built in so the gun won't discharge if you drop it (used to be common with hammered automatics). My wife has a Beretta but it has jammed once in the past. I have a few others (Taurus, Beretta, Star, Colt, Ruger) but the Glocks are my favs.

If you want a revolver (your best bet for a never-jam scenario), I really like Smith & Wesson and Taurus.

If you really want to scare the **** out of someone, you can go with a Desert Eagle 50 caliber. You should see that thing chamber a round....it looks like a heavy artillery mechanism.

Of course, if you are wanting something to defend your home in the event that our government cannot provide adequate protection in events like Hurricanes (as they have proven recently), I like my AK-47 with 30-round mags to sweep my property. The shotguns are pretty cool too.

And whatever one you choose, get VERY familiar with it. If your gun ever jams you want to be able to clear the chamber and have it ready to fire in seconds without having to think about it.

[Jon 533]

This will begin a debate but taking a kid hunting to teach him about guns and death is not a good way to learn about guns. It could have a very negative effect.

I would only kill an animal for two reasons, one if it were to attack me or someone else or is attacking them and two if it were for survival reasons.

Killing as a sport to me just is not what a owning a gun is all about but that is me.

As for joining NRA yes do it as a family and that means the wife too and all of you take the NRA class at your local gun store/range.

What to buy, personal thing, some want to be Make My Day Harry with a Mag 44, others want something small and light.

I have had many guns, sold most but kept a few, and wish I had kept one I sold. Main reason is it cannot be found anymore and was a Swiss gun. Oh well what can I say:)

Go here: http://www.nra.org/

Then go to and read till you fall asleep: http://glocktalk.com/showthread.php?threadid=448564

[JFife 14]

Jon,

I agree to an extent....everyone has their limits. I personally don't "enjoy" killing animals. I find it to be gut-wrenching. But I think exposure to death is profound, especially if you are involved with firearms. Kids have a different view today of firearms IMO---they are something they shoot a kid from NJ or Germany or Japan with while saving a city in their online video game. If a kid transitions from shoot-em-ups to live firearms, they should be witness to real death with the blood, gasps for air, and last breaths. Our generations have never "had" to kill for food, so people have escaped creating death, but have reaped the benefits of others having to do it, each time you eat your beef, fish or chicken. I think killing should be revered in the way the Indians did it, and I think that is a healthy lesson, and one that kids (esp. males) should receive, if they want to own/carry guns. IMO!!!!

[racechaser 64]

Of course, if you are wanting something to defend your home in the event that our government cannot provide adequate protection in events like Hurricanes (as they have proven recently), I like my AK-47 with 30-round mags to sweep my property. The shotguns are pretty cool too.

Keep ammo on hand too. Find a dealer that only sells guns in your area too. During Katrina there were the rumors of thugs leaving the city and coming to your town on the way out. There was also the looting threat everywhere. At that point I decided to get a couple more boxes of fresh rounds for my .40 cal Taurus. Most everyplace that carried guns and ammo as "side items" (such as chain stores from Wal Mart to Academy Sports) sent all their inventory back to warehouse and suppliers. The time you needed it you weren't able to get it.Another example of where the thieves stole guns from New Orleans and Harry homeowner couldn't buy a gun to protect his family.

There is plenty to learn from Katrina for everyone. Please do!!!

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I have a bit of experience on Karma where guns are concerned I would like to share for the benefit of others to consider on their own. I understand the karmic fact that if you bring a gun into your life, you bring anything associated with it into your life as well. I do not posses guns because of this.

When I was a kid I owned a BB gun and used it for what I will leave at 'target practice'. While I was the only one among my friends who had done such a thing, I unknowingly brought what is called karmic retribution upon my friends all the same. I learned the karmic lessons of shooting at a creature that was unarmed during an unprovoked BB Air Rifle attack upon myself and some friends who were just hiking on a mountain and were shot at several times while we ourselves were unarmed. Yes we got hit regardless of the distance advantage, I consider this tangible evidence.

Consider if you would:

Ever had road rage and yelled at someone you thought for whatever reason was a bad driver? Ever been yelled or honked at furiously by someone when you were driving and couldn't understand why? What was your response??? "Whats that *******'* problem?"

Karma has a strange way of invoking itself upon those who would submit themselves to it. It's real!

Rod!~

[RyanH 14]

Rod,

You make some valid points, but I would like to point out a few flaws in people's thinking when it comes to guns:

1. Many people get guns for when they are in a "dangerous area." When I was doing taekwondo, the best defense we learned was to not put yourself in a situation that has an elevated chance of putting yourself at unecessary risk. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and carry mine often. I have one for one of those "just in case" scenarios. But i DON'T intentionally go into areas where I know there is an elevated risk. I'm not looking to use it and I pray I never have the need to.

2. Many people are weak in their control over themselves. Some people show this weakness by their addictions (ever seen anyone stand out in the cold or rain and suck on a cigarette because they can't smoke inside), some show it by immaturity (how many people do you know that won't confess to a mistake and will continue to make excuses), and some show it by allowing anger to dictate their actions. Having a weapon at hand will not increase a person's disposition to use it at a whim; rather, it will give another avenue for retribution to those who already are prone to lose control of their rational thought when invoked. I'm able to make the distinction between "What's that *******'* problem" and waving my pistol at him.

I believe that everyone has to right to enjoy their freedom and not have someone else's actions act to diminish their freedom. Everyone has the right....the GOD GIVEN RIGHT....to their own lives. When someone's elses actions work to reduce my freedom, threaten my life, or take away my property solely on the virtue that they want it, then I will do whatever I have the capacity to do to protect those things.

Owning a firearm will not invite a greater chance of danger. The act of it being present does not increase your odds that danger will come to your door. The *irresponsibility*, hosever, of some WILL increase those odds. Owning a gun is not like owning a lottery ticket. The chance that you may need to use it is a constant risk indifferent to your ability to defend yourself, but being able to protect yourself greatly increases the chance that your rights/freedoms/life/family's life will not be taken away by someone else's desire to take them from you.

Now, consider this: you and I are standing in front of a crowd. You claim that you don't own weapons and that the only means you have to defend yourself in your home is a telephone and a stick of some sort. I claim that I have a gun, I am trained on how to use it and no other person in my home is at risk by it being there (including visitors with children because it is secured). Which of us has a greater chance of being victimized? The only thing I will grant in your favor is that should someone still try to take my property, they will feel a greater pressure to prepare themselves in a more forceful manner than they would if they were going to try to take yours. But people being as they are, a predator will take the easy road and go after those who will offer the least resistance. Your decision to not own a weapon is perfecty fine and I will not condemn anyone for that decision. I just don't accept that people are safer from violence from others...through Karma or whatever else...because they choose to be pacifist in defense.

[RyanH 14]

Sheesh.....just read through a few threads on the Glock forum. Okay, so there DO appear to many folks out there who are just waiting for the day when society crumbles and we are in all-out anarchy. Sounds to me like many of those guys (and gals) are just looking for an excuse to test out their firepower on another human. For the record, I AINT IN THAT CROWD.

Another thing....when I used to carry my gun into theaters (we went regularly), I spoke with all the cops who worked in there and let them know that I had one and showed them my permit. Three of them told me that I was actually not supposed to have it in there and that it should remain in my car. I asked two questions in this order:

1. When was the last time someone who went through the "trouble" to acquire a carrying permit and legally bought a firearm opened fire in a theater?

Two answered along the lines of "can't remember" and kind of chuckled. The other got really stern and said that's irrelevant.

My second question:

2. How many car break-ins were reported last month where stuff was stolen from the cars when you guys were inside keeping order?

The smiles went away with this question. There was a mutual understanding that guns are safer in the possession of a responsible person than in a car where someone who is already prone to criminal action can steal it. They all said that they had no problem with me carrying it so long as I kept it concealed. See, WE (citizens) hire law enforcement officers to protect us from those who don't follow all laws. But they can't protect us at all times and even they realize it. Politicians don't realize it, and nobody in support of full government control acknowledges it, but it is true.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

All that said, I see it is subjective. Being objective in mind is not something everyone is capable of and is why so many have the flaws in which you speak. The influence of safety and the persuasiveness of protection should not be validated by possession of a gun. Don't get me started with da budda stuff too! :)

The laws of probability imply that there is always someone or something in any situation that cannot be foreseen that can beat any person possessing a gun. There are no absolutes! Owning a gun is a choice, using one is a choice, living without one is a choice. As long as they are around, someone will find a reason to justify using one and that is the risk we all take by allowing them to even exist.

While I cannot make all the right choices and avoid all the risks of becoming a victim, I am aware that I have the choice of how to handle the situation should it arise. There are far worse things in life than death.

To each his own.

Rod!~

See, WE (citizens) hire law enforcement officers to protect us from those who don't follow all laws. But they can't protect us at all times and even they realize it. Politicians don't realize it, and nobody in support of full government control acknowledges it, but it is true.

Yes it is Ryan. Very true indeed.

[PressurePros 249]

1. Many people get guns for when they are in a "dangerous area." When I was doing taekwondo, the best defense we learned was to not put yourself in a situation that has an elevated chance of putting yourself at unecessary risk. I have a permit to carry a concealed weapon and carry mine often. I have one for one of those "just in case" scenarios. But i DON'T intentionally go into areas where I know there is an elevated risk. I'm not looking to use it and I pray I never have the need to.

Okay I follow you're train of thinking here but then you say...

Sheesh.....just read through a few threads on the Glock forum. Okay, so there DO appear to many folks out there who are just waiting for the day when society crumbles and we are in all-out anarchy. Sounds to me like many of those guys (and gals) are just looking for an excuse to test out their firepower on another human. For the record, I AINT IN THAT CROWD.

Another thing....when I used to carry my gun into theaters (we went regularly), I spoke with all the cops who worked in there and let them know that I had one and showed them my permit. Three of them told me that I was actually not supposed to have it in there and that it should remain in my car.

Ryan, do not take this personally but I am going to tell you how this reads to someone that doesn't know you.. The person carrying a loaded weapon into a movie theater seems to me very alarmist and more on the scale of the anarchist thinking. You posed questions to the officers in seeming logic but I pose to you similar questions on probability.

1) Of the millions of movies shown yearly in this country, when was the last time somoene stood up and opened fire on the crowd?

2) If it did happen, are you telling me in the ensuing mayhem that a citizen would have the training and self control you spoke of to calmly pull his weapon, and take out the shooter?

A more likely scenario would be (if it ever happened in the firstplace) that you would pull out your gun, make more people panic and end up either hurting someone else or in the worst case end up being shot by one of the officers present. So much for the reasoning of carying a gun in the first place..to protect yourself. I would call carrying a gun into a theater a perfect example of creating elevated risk. If you can carry a gun, then I can carry a gun. If we can carry a gun so can that not-so-stable manic depressive sitting in front of you who is a little aggravated that your kids won't stop whispering to each other.

Staying on your scenario, keeping the theme of self preservation in mind, even if someone stole your weapon from your vehicle at least you would be alive. I'm sorry, I respectfully have to disagree with you. I am pro-choice, so to speak, as to owning a gun but it should stay in your house. Unless you have a job where you are in constant risk of being attacked or robbed carrying a weapon should be left to professionals that are trained to do so.

[RyanH 14]

Unless you have a job where you are in constant risk of being attacked or robbed carrying a weapon should be left to professionals that are trained to do so.

The premise there being that "professionals" are around to do it. I maintain that they are not.

As for my reasons on carrying one...

I went to school at GA Tech. For those that don't know, it is in downtown Atlanta and is an open campus. To get to the campus, you have to go through some pretty rough areas. I didn't live on campus so I had to go through this area. Because I went to school during the day and worked evenings, I often had reason to be on campus at 3 AM to study. I can tell you that the only "law enforcement" I ever saw in my five years there during these hours was the one guy who rode around putting parking tickets on cars illegally parked. Well, there was that one lady who caught us while up to some "no good" in the backseat, but that's another funny story). I'll come right out and say it: I carried my gun into the school building when I went in to study and while walking across campus it was in my pocket. Once inside the building I removed the magazine and broke down the gun (very very fast and easy to do with a glock) and kept it in a case in my bag. I passed a few students and others here and there but none ever presented any type of threat to me. While driving to school one night I crossed the bridge where many homeless people hang out (beside The Varsity for those who are familiar with the area) and a guy walks up to my window and puts his hand on the glass. I could see as he approached that he didn't have a weapon, and as threatening as his approach may have seemed to others I didn't think he was a real danger. I had my gun in my lap but never even showed it to the guy....he said something that truly didn't make any sense (dementia, perhaps?), I said "No thanks," he stepped away and I drove off (through the red light). Again, you have to be sensible when carrying a weapon.

On to why I carried it into the theater....

Because I had my gun during the day and didn't make it home often (slept in my car and showered at school often), I woudl usually have it at night also. If I took my wife (then-girlfriend) out it was still with me. The theater we went to often was getting worse in the types of people hanging around in the parking lot. We saw groups of people kicking cars and smashing windshields of someone who apparently pissed them off one night, Amanda's cousin had been robbed by a teenager, and an armed guard was shot one night while unloading his truck (we never went back after hearing about that). I didn't have my gun hoping to be the vigilante and I'm smart enough to realize that if someone starts shooting the last thing I want to be is someone whom nobody recognizes as a cop while holding a gun.

I had it for those moments when we would walk to my car at night after the film and no "professionals" were there to escort us out.

I had it when thieves returned to my grandparents house the night after they robbed it the first time to get what they didn't get the first time around (the came down the long driveway and saw the lights on and turned around and burned rubber out of there...but imagine if they had the idea that it was just some old people in there and had come in anyway....the phone lines had been cut the night before).

As for Karma and all that....I'm not saying that I agree nor disagree with it, but I have some ideas and opinions on how it influences events in our lives, and I believe that it is based on perception of events, not likelihood.

Oh, and as for those homeless folks around the school...I stopped one night and put down my window beside the guy who cuddled up in the doorway of a shop at night and handed him a coat and $20 when the weather started getting cold. I always carried a $5 bill in my left pocket for some of the people who walked around up there (gun in my right just in case they wanted to take more). And I paid for a cab for a lady to get from Atlanta to her young daughter somewhere on the other side of town when her car was broken down. I'm not above helping others, but I'm also not about to let someone else cause harm to me. Again, I've never had to use my gun defensively and pray I never have to, but it's there if I need it. It was a tool of defense before law was law. Before guns the predators had knives. Before knives they had swords, sticks, and stones. Never in the history of conflict of interests have the predators not sought the upperhand to acheive objects of their desires by dishonorable intentions. Take away all guns, and all we do is revert to the day when the criminals will use baseball bats, crowbars, and knives to perpetrate their crimes on the unarmed. If we are to preach anything, it should be responsibility and accountability.

[Jon 533]

Pressure Pros:Staying on your scenario, keeping the theme of self preservation in mind, even if someone stole your weapon from your vehicle at least you would be alive.

Alive yes but truth is now your responsible for anything and anyone that gets hurt with that gun stolen from the car. You need to make a police report and hope it clears you and how many police departments take broken into car reports today?

The police department motto of "to protect and serve" does not mean protect YOU the average tax paying citizen but to ENFORCE the laws, period.

That is why they are not around when you see someone run a red light, someone steal an apple or whatever, they are out there looking for big fish to haul in.

Oh and don't forget the local donut shop that always has a cop stop by for coffee and donut!

For those of you that do not feel people should have CCP (concealed carry permits) check out what is required to gain one. Here in Albuquerque you spend $200 for a full two day course on gun safety, training and target shooting and must score I believe they said 10 out of 12 shots inside the circle.

Then you take your proof of passing to the local police department, pay to be fingerprinted and photo'ed, have a background check against you and wait up to SIX month for them to process your applacation. That cost another $100 or so dollars. And there is NO guarantee you will get the permit so you could be out $300 plus dollars.

In CA you had to have a compelling reason to want that permit and the amount of paperwork you had to fill out was about two hours worth, then you had to have a letter of good referrence from the local police and that means they have to know you personally. I was friends of the Asst. Chief so was not a problem. Oh then you can only chose ONE GUN to qualify with and the permit was issued for THAT GUN.

Ryan I know Atlanta area and the school location well, also the Underground near the Coke muesum since I have been there a few times. Not a good place to be at night indeed.

GUNS by themselves are not a danger, it is the sick minded person that uses them that is the problem.

To bring up gun control it bothers me that some of those politicians most for it own guns and see it as only US that should not have them. CA has a two females who are the most anti-gun as you can find and one of them mind you has a permit to carry a sub-nose 38, is that fair? I won't get into politics here other then to say if it is good enough for them then it is damn well good enough for all of us. That is as long as no one is a felon!.

[PressurePros 249]

I understand your reasoning, Ryan. I carried for a few years when I owned and operated a small family owned retail shop. The shop was located in West Philadelphia which is about 90% ethnic, drugs on every corner and a population that could step right over a dead body without blinking. My grandfather opened the shop in a different era and never had any problems.

My father was completely against having a weapon in the store. His logic was this.. the split second you make that decision to pull out the gun, there is no turning back. You better be prepared to use it. There are times when you're profession dictates it is wise to protect yourself. The unanswerable question is..when is the right time to pull it? Most people would have a very hard time taking a human life.

Suppose the homeless guy had reached in and sucker punched you just because he was demented. Would you have shot him? You may be very well justified to do so, but could you live with it?

There are obviously varying degrees of alarmist. You adamantly declare yourself opposed to that crowd that sits in a bunker holding an assault rifle eating a can of Spam. I say bringing a weapon into a theater is still a bit extreme. I know you to be a rational person from what I have read on here. But to be honest, it would put me on high alert if I happened to see you rounding a corner on campus unloading a 9mm (or even hearing the familiar sound in a bathroom stall). If I was carrying a gun, I'd pull it.. you'd probably be scrambling to re-chamber. We both could end up hurt or killed.

No hard feelings, we just disagree on the topic.

[Specialized 14]

Ok....I just wanted to answer the "which gun" question but first....

Jon....Police respond to all auto burglaries where a firearm was taken...and no the owner of the firearm isnt responsible for all crimes commited with it until a report is taken. He may be questioned about it...but hes not responsible for its new "owners" actions. Also, I dont eat donuts. This is a new era....you'll find me at Starbucks.

For the "which gun" question. I like Ryan's idea of the Glock. I carry a Glock 22C for the exact reasons he stated. But....If I were a homeowner I wouldnt carry it at home because the Glock has very few safety mechanisms. If your not familiar with guns I would go with a semi-auto handgun with a hammer and safety switch....especially if there are kids in the house. If money is an issue then Ruger make a decent low cost gun...if money is no object then I would look at Beretta or HK. As far as the caliber, I recommend a .40 or .45 because they wont penitrate the walls in your home as much as a small 9mm or large .357 or 44 would so kids in other rooms or neighbors are "slightly" safer.

I hope this helped w/o causing to much confusion.

[JFife 14]

Specialized,

....Interesting fact about "wall penetration". I've never heard that, and it is very good advice. Surprised I am the only Sig advocate thus far......anyone else a fan?? Reasons why or why not??

....and I'll go ahead and open this can or worms....why is everyone so hostile towards the govt in the wake of Katrina??? Can I be honest??----Here is what I saw---people (90-95%) that were too dumb to heed the advice to get outa town. I know, I know, some were unable, but the authorities could have more easily got to them if the others were gone. .....So what are you left with??? The predators and the vulnerable. And a situation where it was next to impossible for the authorities to provide help, because of MOTHER NATURE!! Besides, why does everyone need/expect the GOVT to take care of them???? If I hear a tornado is coming, I don't expect the govt to come and wisk me from my home....I'd like to think I am intelligent enough to deal with a) the situation, and b) the aftermath.

I for one think people expect too much of the govt. People says this shows just how poorly-prepared we are for a nuclear attack......ya think??? Are we to expect preparedness to the point of zero casualties in such an attack?? No.......people will die, lots of them. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.........I'd rather nuke a handful of countries and nip an attack in the bud rather than be concerned about our preparedness for when they come and dirty-bomb us.

[RyanH 14]

Suppose the homeless guy had reached in and sucker punched you just because he was demented. Would you have shot him? You may be very well justified to do so, but could you live with it?

No, using violence is an absolute resort. Given the options of stepping on the gas, hitting him back, or shooting him, I'd step on the gas. I value human life and would feel pretty about shooting someone. Everyone has a story, and you never know everyone's story. Their actions could be that of desperation for their starving children. Would I want to kill someone and live with know ing that someone is going to grow up without a parent because of my split-second decision? Not really. However, given the choice between my family and someone else, I am always going to choose my family. So if I truly believe that harm will come to myself or my family, I will act in the interest of self-preservation. And there are always means to disarm or "neutralize" someone without killing them.

If anyone has seen the movie "Crash" then you probably got a better appreciation for gun safety and responsible use. If you haven't seen it, consider renting it and watching it one night. It's an emotional roller coaster for sure and will make you think twice about the responsibility that is inherent with gun-ownership.

Oh, and I have had a gun stolen from my car before. It was a .22 taurus snub nose. Now perhaps the person who stole it just wanted to pawn it off for some quick cash. I like to think that was the case.

Also....Charles Daly makes a decent pistol. Their 1911 model is pretty sweet and shoots very well, but I don't have much experience with it beyond a few hours of range time.

[Specialized 14]

Jon,

My bad.....Sig is also highly recomended. But it also falls under the expensive catagory.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ok...I was not going to weigh in here, but here I go.

First of all I believe in our right to bear arms. However, I do believe that it is a right that has a huge potential cost associated with it. We do have a gun in our home.

Now... A true story....

My step brother when he was a teenager, had his best friend over at the house. Now these young men both grew up with family, hunting, knew all about how to use guns, clean guns, care for guns and be safe with them.

They went outside and were shooting at a large wasp/hornet nest up in a tree. They went back into the house, and were cleaning the guns. My step brothers gun went off accidentally and blew his best friends brains out. It was a terrible accident. Accidents happen even to those who are careful, to those who exercise caution.

Just be careful. That's all I have to say.

Beth

[steve r 14]

all i will say is TREAT A GUN AS ALWAYS IF IT IS LOADED.no matter what .i own several and accidents do happen with an empty gun .its not the loaded one .its the empty one that will hurt. be carefull and be safe .its not people killing people .its the people behind the gun.my 2 cents worth.