Jump to content
  • Announcements

    • Beth n Rod

      The Grime Scene Terms Of Service and Forum Rules   08/23/2007

      Terms of Service Warning: The contracting trades are an activity in which there exists the potential for serious injury or death. ALL Users must read and agree to these Terms of Service before using this site. This web site is dedicated to the contracting trades, an activity which is inherently dangerous. You should not depend on information gleaned from this site for your personal safety. Your safety depends upon your own judgment based on competent instruction, experience, and a realistic assessment of ability. There are no warranties, either expressed or implied, that the information on this website are accurate and reliable. Your use of this site indicates your assumption of the risk of death or serious injury and is an acknowledgment of your own sole responsibility for your safety. The following terms and conditions are in reference to the The Grime Scene web site and discussion board (www.thegrimescene.com), here in referred to as "The Grime Scene". These terms and conditions apply to all sites, services, and resources within the The Grime Scene. ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS The Grime Scene provides its service to you, subject to the following Terms of Service (referred to as "TOS"), which may be updated by us from time to time without notice. You may review the most current version of the TOS at any time in the Announcements. In addition, when using particular The Grime Scene services, you shall be subject to any posted guidelines or rules applicable to such services.
      [*]DESCRIPTION OF SERVICE The Grime Scene provides users with access to informational resources including communication and interactive resources pertaining to the contracting industry. Under no circumstances shall The Grime Scene be liable to any user on account of that user's use or misuse of the site or reliance on the site. Such limitation of liability shall apply to prevent recovery of direct, indirect, incidental, consequential, special, punitive and exemplary damages (even if The Grime Scene has been advised of the possibility of such damages). Such limitation of liability shall apply whether the damages arise from use or misuse of the site or reliance on the site, from inability to use the site, or from the interruption, suspension, or termination of the site or services offered on the site (including such damages incurred by third parties).
      Such limitation shall also apply with respect to damages incurred by reason of other services or goods received through or advertised on the site or received through any links provided on the site. .Such limitation shall apply, without limitation, to the costs of procurement of substitute goods or services, lost profits, or lost data. These limitations shall apply notwithstanding any failure of essential purpose of any limited remedy. The Grime Scene makes no warranties as to the accuracy of its information and due to the volatile nature of the information contained within The Grime Scene. The Grime Scene can not screen or authenticate all articles, posts, listings or other information.
      [*]TERMS OF MEMBERSHIP & USAGE RESTRICTIONS Site Membership Membership is available to any person over the age of 13 who registers and accurately provides all the required information, provides a legitimate electronic mail address and obtains a unique The Grime Scene member name and password. Membership is non-transferable. The use of web-based email accounts may be denied due to abuse.
      All membership information must be accurate and belong to the person registering. Invalid, incomplete, or falsified information can result in the immediate termination of all membership privileges for that user and, possibly a permanent ban, restricting the member from using any of The Grime Scene’s services at any time.
      Usage of this site is restricted to persons under the age of 13. (you must be over 13 to participate here)
      The Grime Scene is not responsible for the content of any member's posts, and the views expressed on The Grime Scene are the responsibility of the posting member and not The Grime Scene. The Grime Scene does not preview member posts in any way before they appear on the site. Any link posted to a third-party internet address does not imply an endorsement of that site or its content by The Grime Scene.
      The Grime Scene forums are for the discussion of the contracting trades and related topics. While the administrators and moderators of The Grime Scene will attempt to keep all off-topic messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of The Grime Scene Room nor the moderators will be held responsible for the content of any message.
      The Grime Scene forums may contain profanity.
      As a condition of buying and selling items listed in any forum of The Grime Scene, Buyer and Seller agree that The Grime Scene is not brokering or otherwise participating in any purchase or sale. The Grime Scene has no knowledge of the terms of sale, the condition of any items offered for sale, the accuracy of any aspect of the sale or the use to which any item shall be put. Buyer assumes all responsibility for proper use of any item so purchased. Buyer acknowledges that improper use of some or all of the items offered for sale on The Grime Scene may cause serious injury or death. Buyer shall seek qualified assistance and instruction in the use of all items purchased.
      Pornography of any type is not allowed.
      The owners, administrators, and moderators of The Grime Scene reserve both the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason, and the right to suspend or delete any user account for any reason we feel is in violation of the TOS, both explicit and implied.
      Membership in The Grime Scene is a privilege, not a right. We reserve the right to deny service to any person at any time without cause.
      [*]INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY It is the policy of The Grime Scene to respond expeditiously to claims of intellectual property infringement. The Grime Scene will promptly process and investigate notices of alleged infringement and will take appropriate actions under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act ("DMCA"). Should a violation of intellectual property be discovered, the document(s) or messages in such violation will be removed in a timely manner after any and all investigating has been completed to prove the authenticity of such a claim.
      [*]PUBLIC CONTENT ON THE GRIME SCENE Any and all content posted for inclusion in publicly accessible areas of The Grime Scene are the responsibility of the creator. The Grime Scene makes no claims or warranties about such information or its authenticity. Upon posting any content on The Grime Scene, you grant The Grime Scene the non-exclusive right to publish, modify and use such content solely for the purpose of displaying such content.
      [*]LIMITATION OF RE-USE You agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes or noncommercial purposes any portion of the services or content contained within The Grime Scene and its subsidiary sites. In order to use any content, graphical art, photos or files owned by or published by The Grime Scene, direct, written authorization must be obtained from The Grime Scene with no exceptions at any time for any reason.
      [*]LEGAL RESTRICTIONS This agreement shall be constructed and controlled by the laws of the State of Maryland, without regard to its conflict of law provisions. Any dispute arising hereunder will be governed by the laws of the State of Maryland. Each member agrees to personal jurisdiction by tile state and federal courts of the State of Maryland.
      The Grime Scene reserves the right to change, modify or update this TOS agreement at any time without notification. Membership in and the use of resources contained within The Grime Scene constitutes full agreement and acknowledgment of the restrictions, limitations and terms set forth in this agreement.
      [*]Forum Posting Rules The following is a list of basic guidelines about what is and is not allowed while posting on The Grime Scene. These rules are in addition to what is listed in our Terms Of Service . Please read through all of these sections before using our site and contact us if you have questions. Users shall treat each other with respect at all times on The Grime Scene. Name calling, personal attacks, or other inappropriate behavior will not be allowed and may cause your account to be banned.
      Advertising on our site is specific to Contractors and to those Manufacturers and Distributors serving our industry. All Manufacturers and Distributors must have a signature, and should not solicit in the main forums. Please use the vendor area. Members who try to sell products and/or services to contracting professionals in the main forum area may have their accounts privileges suspended or revoked.
      No pornographic material or links to pornographic material may be posted on this site.
      Profanity shall be kept to a minimum. Words that appear to be blanked out with stars (*) are not allowed.
      You may only post material and content that you own. Posting copyrighted material, trademarks, and other violations of the DMCA is prohibited. Anyone posting an article must credit the author and provide a link to the original data.
      These rules may be altered at anytime without notice so please check the Announcements often.
Sign in to follow this  
bforbis

Commercial Tile Cleaning

Recommended Posts

I do a LOT of regrouting and tile repair for fast food chains along with basic repair and maintenance and have been searching for a dry vapor steam cleaner to clean interior tile and to remove gum on the sidewalks.

I would not feel comfortable letting all of that excess water sit on the floors like that. Most chains do not seal their grout or use water proof backer board or even green board on the walls. All that excess water wicks up the wall rotting out the bottom 16 inches or so of drywall behind the tile or FRP board.

At the very least some of the base cove tile or vinyl base will eventually fall off due to wall deterioration and severe mold. Most of my tile repair is because of over zealous employees using a garden hose and stiff bristle brush to clean the tile after closing.

I’m not telling you how to do your work…only reporting on what I see on a weekly basis. That is why I am on the hunt for an affordable steam cleaner like the gum buster.

I just finished up formica repairs in a large cafiteria at the Truman Bldg. and they were asking about having the grout cleaned at all of the state buildings around here (I live in the state capital) If anyone has any experience with a dry steam vapor cleaner I would sure like to hear how you like it and what it cost. This will be a great add on for my existing clientell.

Thanks allot,:)

Jesse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If u go after all that t&g I would look at a scrubber put out by Karcher, I have been field testing it for a few months now, and it is incredible, I do alot or residential cleaning, and it has cut all my job times in half a little pricey, but they have different brushes u can buy, ie. red for t&g, they have a grey one for scrubbing concrete trying that next, I will try to find a link to it. It is a little pricey though. Here ya go http://www.tornadovac.com/product_solutions/product_details.asp?PARENT_ROW_ID=4&CHILD_ROW_ID=27&PRODUCT_ROW_ID=51

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
If u go after all that t&g I would look at a scrubber put out by Karcher, I have been field testing it for a few months now, and it is incredible, I do alot or residential cleaning, and it has cut all my job times in half a little pricey, but they have different brushes u can buy, ie. red for t&g, they have a grey one for scrubbing concrete trying that next, I will try to find a link to it. It is a little pricey though. Here ya go http://www.tornadovac.com/product_solutions/product_details.asp?PARENT_ROW_ID=4&CHILD_ROW_ID=27&PRODUCT_ROW_ID=51

Thanks for the link Steve. Just a couple of questions:

How much does the unit you are using sell for?

Does it use water or steam and how much?

Will it erode the grout quickly like the hand held stiff bristle brushes they are now using in the franchises?

I cant tell much from the web site and have no time to listen to a salesman.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.

Jesse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Most commercial kitchens are being built with urethane grout.

Older units have this old style cheap sand grout and it doesn’t last in my own house under normal conditions.

We clean a dairy that replaced the urethane after 10 years and let me tell you it was tough.

Dairies use ammonia and acids to clean. Yes they mix them; I realize this make deadly gas. The stacks are a few hundred feet high. I have never been present when sterilization is being done that I’m aware of.

This was one of the original installs for this urethane grout. I have been doing commercial interiors for about 15 years.

Most major chains Outback Corp., Darden, Brinker & Yum are installing this and replacing old with the urethane by Dupont.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Most commercial kitchens are being built with urethane grout.

Older units have this old style cheap sand grout and it doesn’t last in my own house under normal conditions.

We clean a dairy that replaced the urethane after 10 years and let me tell you it was tough.

Dairies use ammonia and acids to clean. Yes they mix them; I realize this make deadly gas. The stacks are a few hundred feet high. I have never been present when sterilization is being done that I’m aware of.

This was one of the original installs for this urethane grout. I have been doing commercial interiors for about 15 years.

Most major chains Outback Corp., Darden, Brinker & Yum are installing this and replacing old with the urethane by Dupont.

Thanks for The info Ron.

The black sanded grout with red quarry tile and base cove is exactly what is used in 90% of the places that I repair.

I will do a search on this new grout and recommend it to my clients. They tear down and rebuild their stores every 10-15 years but are still slow to change things that arnt working (like using 5/8 regular drywall instead of hardi board in the kitchens).

Thanks,

Jesse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thanks for the link Steve. Just a couple of questions:

How much does the unit you are using sell for?

Does it use water or steam and how much?

Will it erode the grout quickly like the hand held stiff bristle brushes they are now using in the franchises?

I cant tell much from the web site and have no time to listen to a salesman.

Thanks again and have a great weekend.

Jesse

I got one for around 2300 and some change can't remember figure, it is a scrubber which replaces the little 8 in. brush on a pole that I started out using, it comes with a weight or a water tank, the weight I use when doing the t&g and concrete, the water tank can be used when stripping floors, and it has a little lever on the handle to dispense water, this thing is spinning at 3000 rpm, I did a dressing room at the local shake joint last weekend and after laying down cleaner, hit with scrubber, and rinse at low pressure. Cut almost an hour off my time, from doing it last yr. I have never seen "eroding" grout yet, should be interesting though, all I have to deal with is air pockets. I did however go to a ladies house and when i did a spot test in her closet, after appling the cleaner and hittine with the brush the brush looked like the color of the grout, and when I hit with the cleaning wand, it took the grout out completely, not sure why, kinda like the cleaner liquified the grout again. I am not too worried about it, that is the first time in the 8 yrs I have been cleaning t&g to see that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Jeese, I do a lot of repair in places and repair with the epoxy modified.urethane grout and it is a much better product. As well I use a water proofing adhesive for the base boards and seal top and bottom so the water is locked out.

We use industrial vacs to remove the water, so the water is not sitting there long. Most of these restaurants have far more damage in place before I get there and I try to advise them on corrective path.

The initial construction is where the fail lies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hey Brent,

How do you feel about the installation of the urethane grout versus standard black sanded grout? I am referring to dry time, clean up and how well it blends with the existing grout.

I am scared to death of how this stuff will clean up if it is that strong. We hit the black grout with a scouring pad to remove haze then damp rags and hundreds of buckets of clean water are exchanged as fast as I can switch them. The very, very light haze is left for the minimum wage workers to get that next night after closing.

I have tried to sell them on the benefits of sealing (including ease of clean up and less eroding) but it falls on deaf ears.

Thanks for your thoughts,

Jesse

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A few things...

Ron, Realize some these prejects on here are not always done with pressurewash equipment so pricing varies for that reason as well as for reasons of locale and competition level. I use autoscrubbers which have a lower overhead to run and more people offering such services. But hey..trust me I love to get $80-$100 per hr for scrubbing floors but it don't always at all work out that way. On inside work I usually have to be providing actual finish removal services to get to the .20-.30 per sqft. range. (translates into just about same $ an hour figures above for me).

This mornings 4 hour job translated into $60 an hour my share but that was a special deal for my brothers janitorial company in order for him to score daily office cleaning contract. We did 20k sqft of 30k nasty warehouse space in 4 hours..

The thing about these kitchen areas for me is that I don't like the soak and wait time involved of flooding the floor either (is just about required with any method other than hot pressure) so am interested in hooking up a recovery vacuum to my sureface cleaner such as Alan runs...

....Alan, How often does the rubber have to be replaced on the surface cleaners edge. Getting such going on the homemade jobber I run may be too much a pain as you mention butit may be worth a shot..

Far as sanded grout versus urethane...contractors I see use Admix (probably urethane based) in there mortar/sanded grout mix these days so perhaps worrying about such is moot point now...least where I am at anyways. From where I stand with 20 years doing inside cleaning work of all types I got to call it shoddy workmanship from the get go that a place would have to regrout. If a regrouting is to take place the surface sure had better be degreased first and then acid etched or it will just fall out again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

....Alan, How often does the rubber have to be replaced on the surface cleaners edge. Getting such going on the homemade jobber I run may be too much a pain as you mention butit may be worth a shot..

.

My recovery surface cleaners have a very stiff bristle brush custom made by Fuller brush Company. They keep the water in and allow air to enter for the vacuum. If you had rubber, it would suck to the floor and not move very easy, if at all. If I crank the vacuum to high, it will suck mine to the floor and they will not move.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
My recovery surface cleaners have a very stiff bristle brush custom made by Fuller brush Company. They keep the water in and allow air to enter for the vacuum. If you had rubber, it would suck to the floor and not move very easy, if at all. If I crank the vacuum to high, it will suck mine to the floor and they will not move.

ahh.....Have a pic or a link by chance?.. Is it around edge only sorta like a bonnet pad driver for a carpet cleaning?...Regular scrub machine pad drivers or the nylogrit type scrub brushes cover the whole bottom of a traditional swing floor machine and but have open areas for water to get through during scrubbing so I assume that is not what yer refering to..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The brush is not as thick as the bonnet pad driver and is only around the outside of the surface cleaner. The spray bar is basically the same as all others and is installed on a dual shell surface cleaner. The bar spins inside of the inner shell, and then you have a 1/4" or so gap where the suction comes into play, surrounded by the brush on the outer shell.

So the bar spins and everything gets pushed out. The brush keeps it in so that the vacuum can suck it up.

I can find my pics, I will try to get some tonight when I am out.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is actually what got me into PWing. I modified an inexpensive surface cleaner with a perimeter vacuum attachment to clean tile/grout in my restaurant. I took a 3 man (2 hours each) job and cut it to 1 man (1.5 hour) job and the tile had never looked so good. The difficult part I have found is that restaurants require a system for cleanliness. Cost for frequency at even medium rates are sometimes impossible for operators to budget.

post-1971-137772164243_thumb.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you feel about the installation of the urethane grout versus standard black sanded grout? I am referring to dry time, clean up and how well it blends with the existing grout.

Funny thing, I first cleaned this urethane mess up and after a few years I ran into a contractor that had a nifty little trick.

I went and looked at the job and the grout was all over the tile. Sand grout it doesn’t mater because the grout doesn’t adhere to the ceramic that easily. This urethane is ridiculous. He spread this stuff all over the tile. I couldn’t even see the tile, I thought big dollars and what a mess. He had used a candle wax on the tiles first. This job came clean ten times faster and looked 300% better than any other I had done.

Urethane is rated 4000 to 6000 PSi regular sand is 2000psi

Acid is the bets thing to clean grout. Caustic will also be a safer choice in side and area that’s not ventilated.

Grout will be missing in the dish rooms and near milk machines. Lactose is deadly on grout. Grease is the third reason grout repair guys stay in business.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They also have a few brands of seal made to prevent stickage that ya can spray on or mop down over at the local HD... Cheapo Behr is one they got for such construction protection. After grouting such stuff can be stripped off or left for a fair to good seal for the business opening..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I use as little pressure as possible, mainly b/c you really don't know how good the grout or installation is. You can be cruising along and blow out a section of grout. But don't panic...it's not difficult to replace. The key is to inspect the area and expect it from some areas and inform the customer. Bill accordingly.

I inspect the area(s) before cleaning and look for anything that might be a problem. I do minor tile repair (some has turned into major repairs b/c of it was just needed...not b/c of highpressure) and regrouting.

I have developed a procedure, that even "tile isntallers" do not go to this much detail, for restaurants and use materials that are epoxy modified and really last.

I just did one last night, in a cooler of a Lone Star. If you don't mind the night life, there is good niche for interior tile cleaning for restaurants.

This morning I confirmed another Red Lobster for a complete interior cleaning of thekitchen and prep areas (no hoods), floors, walls, under equipment, sanitization...

This is the niche I am interested in, do you mind if I give you a call sometime with a few questions? Ifyou don't mind, when is a good time to call?

Thanks,

Scott

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

How do you feel about the installation of the urethane grout versus standard black sanded grout? I am referring to dry time, clean up and how well it blends with the existing grout.

Funny thing, I first cleaned this urethane mess up and after a few years I ran into a contractor that had a nifty little trick.

I went and looked at the job and the grout was all over the tile. Sand grout it doesn’t mater because the grout doesn’t adhere to the ceramic that easily. This urethane is ridiculous. He spread this stuff all over the tile. I couldn’t even see the tile, I thought big dollars and what a mess. He had used a candle wax on the tiles first. This job came clean ten times faster and looked 300% better than any other I had done.

Urethane is rated 4000 to 6000 PSi regular sand is 2000psi

Candle wax?! I never would have thought of that. I used an admix 1 time on my very first regrout job in a Perkins Restuarant job. What a nightmare! That stuff is still on the tile face.

I will try these sealing ideas before grouting and hopefully have a much easier cleanup time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
That's a great thread here sir, we love to read it, very informative although, and we hope you'll share more posts like this in future too. And thanks you for sharing your thoughts. I want to read all about cleaning stuff.

It is a great thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Sign in to follow this  

×