Residential/Commercial??

[Jeff 232]

I wondering someday if I'll drop my residential side of my business.

Anybody out here that has been in business for awhile and maybe started their biz with alot of residetial work, then dropped it over time and just do commercial

Residential work I get still fills in some of the slower times I have and i plan on still offering residetialbut can possibly see sometime in the future dropping it for a couple reason

1) May have to much commercial work or enough to support biz without doing residential

2) Profit isnt as good as commercial

3) Residential is much more time consuming, estimates, so many of them take alot of time & $$$ fuel

4) Residential isnt a great money maker, compared to my commercial work. I'd say 50% of my residential is good money, roofs, concrete and highend homes. But many of the neighborhoods that I do are not great money makers.

5) targeting & marketing of residential takes alot of time and money. Time mainly. The more I tim I spend on residential marketing the less time I have for comm. targeting

Now I'm thinking two different ways when it comes to residential. Should I find that my commercial supports me just fine should I drop Res. Or should I work harder to grow residential and have a part of my biz/crew dedicated to residential.

Its a crossroads in my biz that I know Ill have to cross within the next several months or at least with in the next couple years. Do I keep res. or drop it

Has anyone out here dropped their residential side and just gone with commercial & why?

JL

[James 625]

Jeff up north it's the opposite.

[PressurePros 249]

I agree with James. I started in this business doing commercial work and switched to residential because that is where the money is.

[John T 744]

Hey Jeff,

I'm with you on your thinking here. My best paydays as far as money made per day I do much better doing Commercial work then Residential. A great day fo me doing Residential is when I make anywhere near $1000/day. On the Commercial side I've made as high as $2000/day and I have a Commercial job coming up n March that if we put in a long day I could make as much as $3000 in that day. The other thing with Commercial work is if you can get it where the job is done every so often then its even more $$$$ in the bank.

On our PWNA BOD is a guy named Jim Grady who owns http://www.tristatehighriseservices.com/ he is strictly commercial and in season he has about 45 employees.. He lives in upstate NY where is there's tons of mountains. I'm not sure how far he has to drive to get into his office but his business targets cities. He has a couple of offices and he does quite well. I believe the tallest building he has dealt with was about 40+ stories.

On the other hand Residential pays pretty fast and you can get alot of jobs near to your home..So IMO I would hold on to the residential end untill the time comes when you can fill your days with Commercial then if it was me I would at that time get away from Residential

[James 625]

John your higher pay day's are due to your new machine and out put ?

On average my I perfer residential however; some of my largest paid day's have been commercial jobs.

[PressurePros 249]

Daily paydays don't tell the story though. It's probably more accurate to average it over the course of a month. Now if someone is making two grand per day and is booked 5-6 days per weeek that is ni$e money. I will immediately retract my above statement and start hawking commercial jobs. I consider $600 net per day (consistent) per crew good moolah That's about where I would like to be.

Disclaimer to homeowners, out of work painters and landscapers and those that think they can run a business because Home Depot sells pressure washers: It takes a few years, some sleepless nights, working six and seven days per week and about $50,000 invested in your biz to get there. And lest I forget.. business sense, staying power, integrity and a ton of prayers

[Jeff 232]

House washing rates are tough around here and just doing the estimates are a PITA and only land 50% tops. Out of the past 10 house estimates Ive done these past few weeks I got 3 jobs. Its all getting to time consuming and cost

I like making thousand doing commercial/condos instead of hundreds in a day and thats how it is with residential around here

They do house washes for $65-$80 2200sq ft or less

I have one neighborhood Ive charged $100 for a wash for past 2 1/2 years, these homes are 1500-2200sq ft they're easy but Ive done 4 homes in this neighborhood out of probably 50 estimates in person and probably 20 over the phone. When some one calls from this neighborhood I now tell them most homes are around $100 and they say they'll call back or to much etc

My commercial I just do so much better and less time. I can go on one estimate and have work for a week or 2.

Im going to keep residential at least another year then maybe make a decision

[CCPC 26]

House washing rates are tough around here and just doing the estimates are a PITA and only land 50% tops. Out of the past 10 house estimates Ive done these past few weeks I got 3 jobs. Its all getting to time consuming and cost

I like making thousand doing commercial/condos instead of hundreds in a day and thats how it is with residential around here

They do house washes for $65-$80 2200sq ft or less

I have one neighborhood Ive charged $100 for a wash for past 2 1/2 years, these homes are 1500-2200sq ft they're easy but Ive done 4 homes in this neighborhood out of probably 50 estimates in person and probably 20 over the phone. When some one calls from this neighborhood I now tell them most homes are around $100 and they say they'll call back or to much etc

My commercial I just do so much better and less time. I can go on one estimate and have work for a week or 2.

Im going to keep residential at least another year then maybe make a decision

I always thought that Florida was the land of low ballers, but from what you described, Myrtle beach sounds much worse.

[PLD 14]

I consider $600 net per day (consistent) per crew good moolah That's about where I would like to be.

Net? If so, that's great. If you mean gross, I concur. We run 4-700 gross/day with about 500/day being the average.

[Don Phelps 85]

One of the differences I see here is trying to compare 'residential' to 'commercial.' Since this is a rather broad stroke, here is an example. I have a restuarant (drive-thru/sidewalks) that I clean twice a month for $140/each cleaning. It's nothing special, $280 for 5 hrs. work (alone). However, when things are slow, this money is always there and in the bank. On the residential side, we can get anywhere from $185 to $595 for roof cleanings and/or package price cleanings, etc. Then, as John, Jeff and a few others here will understand, there are commercial jobs where some very lucrative cash can be made in a very short amount of time. Since some will probably try to split hairs and draw more differences to support their cases, I'll simply caveat this by saying that this next 'commercial' job is a 'roof cleaning only' job and it involved 16 three story residential buildings, 1 office/clubhouse and approximately 8-10 one story parking/storage buildings, gazebos, etc. The bid (including lift) was almost $31,500. It took us 13 days to complete the entire job and after all the overhead was deducted, I netted almost $20,000. I normally don't openly speak about pricing (nor does Jeff L.) However, the point needs to be made that there are a few of us around that are capable of making a very good profit on 'commercial' cleaning. As this end of our business continues to grow I'm faced with the decision of dropping one and going with the other. I can't speak for other areas of the country, but it seems to be an easy decision to make in Orlando, FL (where pw'ers can work year-round and there are 200 listings in the phone book). In the end, if the math works for you, that's all that matters, isn't it? Just make sure it does.

Just my .02 :)

[JFife 14]

First, I'd base a decision on what you like, case closed.

Second, I'd tend to think you biz value would be greatly increased if the portfolio was made up of commercial work. May be wrong.

Third, I definitely think everyone is way too tied up on price. For commercial, I think it comes down to speed, and getting things done when you say you will. That is why I believe in the direction John T. has gone with his biz, I have no doubt it will pay off big. I'd say by '08 he'll consistantly be in the 2k-3k (daily) ballpark, if not more, simply because of his capability.

Fourth, what I do (log homes) is far less threatened by lowballer syndrome, and the reason is because it is an impossible job for a part-timer or beginner to do. As well, huge commercial will always pay better for the same reason, there won't be an influx of beginners starting up overnight and competing such as it is with decks, resi. drives, houses, gutters, etc.

The work we do is chump change to most big biz. If it costs 30K to do a bunch of washing on a massive hotel, they'll be FAR more concerned with the speed in which is it done, than saving 8K and going cheap. If you went in and bid a big hotel at 30K, they aren't looking at it like, "how much is this guy putting in his pocket?", the way a homeowner does. If you went into the hotel bid and said you guaranteed you'd have it done within 24 hrs. of when you start, that is what would sell the job.

I'm bidding on a little log repair at a timeshare resort, and it could lead to some bigger things. The bid process is really screwed up, but at this point I am the highest bid, more than twice the next person. ...To make things worse, I'm trying to sell to a person in FL who has no idea what to expect/look for/etc., and will be going with the person that is the middle price, I'm sure of it. The middle price is around $7500, and my price was 16,500 (again, screwed up bid, we probably aren't even bidding the same thing), and she essentially told me mine was far higher and implied wouldn't have a chance. I want to get in with this resort, so I am going to email them with a harder sell, what is needed, blah, blah, blah, BUT the kicker is that I'm going to guarantee we'll have it done within three days (easily doable). We can probably do it in two days. The thing is, the area we are working in is about 10' from the main entrance door, where all the prospective clients come in, so they'll want whoever does it out ASAP. I'll gonna push this----I'll let you know how it goes:)

[Celeste 341]

Hey Jeff.....one thing not to lose sight of, especially since you're the pressure washing cheerleader inspirational one we all look to (:)) The amount of money becomes less important when you don't enjoy the work anymore and you're too tied up or stressed by time constraints to enjoy the money you're making! At the end of the day, if the bills are paid and you are surrounded with and enjoying what's important, you've done well. You'll know how to balance it all when the opportunity presents itself :)

Celeste

PS...Don't get me wrong....I'd love for CPW to routinely make $2K per day!

[Jeff 232]

I'm thinking of it more becuase of the time factor, which is also money. But the time spent is really bugging me. I have to drive all over hell & back one day, say doing 10 estimates Ive lined up. It takes 3-5 hours of my time and I get 5 of the jobs but there simple house washes and say there is no upsell. So those 5 jobs total $850. Not great money but ok even if I can have them all done in a day, Ive spent so much time on them. Taking 10 calls for estimates, going to do the ten estimates, driving all over, only getting the 5 jobs for not that great of money.

Now add that I have to do estimate like that twice a week totalling 6-10 hours spent doing them calls & estimates. Thats a long 6-10 hours just for 2 days work.

Id say 75% of residential around here is 1200-2500 sq ft homes and there almost all vinyl. If I charged $200 Id be lucky to sell 1 or 2

I like residential and Im pretty good at upselling so my figures are probably better than my example but Its just taking to much time!!!!!! Ive been very busy and Im looking at this as a time management thing, weighing the pros & cons.

If I could get better prices for house washes I wouldnt even think of dropping residential, but the more I up my prices the less jobs I am getting and Im pretty good at sales, tell them the benifits of hiring a pro Im personable and the peple like me and how I explain the process, but they still dont want to pay

Between the banks I do,contract condo gutter cleaning jobs and say 1 big condo job which all of this takes say a total of 40 days to do. I make more than all the houses I wash in a year and it takes many more days than 40 days to do the house/ You get what Im saying

Plus Im really liking the condo & gutter cleaning work. Ive been pretty darn busy this winter and it looks like it will continue and then some the rest of the year. So Im looking at being busy year round year after year (hopefully) Now I need time to keep this busy stuff coming and need time for my family and cant work 5-6 days a week 52 weeks a year. With the commercial condo and other commercial I do I can can have my 2 fulltimes guys and my seasonal fulltime workers do almost all the work and I'll actually just be supervising much more. I can have my guys on jobs that my reg guys can oversee/work while Im doing other stuff. A condo complex I can go the first day explain what has to be done & how to do it and then I actually could leave for the 5 days it takes and they would get it done( now I wouldnt not check a job for 5 days but I could)

Now residential I have to explian each job, what to do house, drive, gutters etc. I like to check behind my guys also TO MUCH TIME involved compared to commercial. I do 18 banks twice a year plus 1/4ly drivethroughs Now I send the guys to do them and I have Sundays with my family, just any way I look at it I come up with better time management doing commercial.

Time is money, but time is also just time and Im not liking the time it takes for residential. Now if I could get $250 or more per house it would be different.

For now Im keeping residential, a year from now who knows

Thanks everyone theres been some GREAT input on this. You all are a great help I love TGS

JL

[John T 744]

Jeff,

It sounds like Commercial is the way to go for you if you can get enough work..but..since your pretty good with the sales and your a personable guy why not keep doing both but just maybe hire another person or two so they along with your other guys can do all the work that you line up??

This way you can just about be certain that your guys will always be busy and you don't have to do any of the physical labor. You can keep selling and selling and because of this your company will be making more and more money and you will become wealthier...and your body will love you for it:)

My partner at my "Other Job" owns this pool company www.jjspools.com which is one of the largest on Long Island NY. His business exploded when he decided at about the ripe old age of 27 or so to not do any of the physical work but to keep hiring and firing workers untill he had a bunch of great Crews. He is forever riding me because I continuously do the physical work in my business along with 1-2 workers. I know he is right because to really get to the bigs you have to relinquish the labor process to the workers. Any of the owners of the bigger businesses in most fields will tell you this. Still for me I'm not sure what direction I'm going to take because as Popeye use to say.."I am what I am" and I am a laborer who happens to have two jobs and one of them is my very own business...I could just hear my partner here telling me that I'm just afraid to get to the next level..and maybe he's right or maybe I'm doing Ok where I'm at in my life..Could I be content?? I hope not

[James 625]

After a couple years we all find are niche's to keep the average dollar per day where needed. In the last couple of years I started doing cedar sided houses. I'm bidding one now that will take a month.I find when I do a job like this I can break away and do allot of small jobs to break up the mundaneness of being on a long lasting job.