I Can't Hold Back Any Longer.

[Tim Smith 14]

It would be nice if the PWNA has some type of certification program - I don't mean like a wood restoration class certification - A certification program for contractor in general -- example:

To be a PWNA Certified Contractor - you must take a correspondence course (covering all aspects of pressure washing) and take a exam (Open book at home), provide proof of business (3yrs or so), provide a resume for review, and be a member of the PWNA.

Add or delete to the above suggestions - just make it where a person has to work for it - do not make it easy, or it won't mean anything, but make it convienient.

Go to your customer and say, "I'm PWNA Certified Contractor" as well as a member. Heres a brochure of the requirements and information about who and what the PWNA is all about.

COMPETITIVE ADVANTAGE - This separates you form your competitors.

and

Give the due creditability within the industry - that you as a contractor have general knowledge of the entire field and specialize in one or two particular areas - but more important, you have the initiative, drive, motivation, and desire to improve.

What do you think?

Just take a look at the home inspection field - If I tell a realtor, bank, or homeowner that I am ASHI Certified - boom, I get the job. It means something.

We have all winter to take the time to accomplish this correspondence course.

Something like this can help bring more credibility to the entire

industry. Get away with the theory of "Monkey with a garden hose" --- Professional Certified Technition.

It can't be a money making event - it needs to be backed by an organization like PWNA (not some individual). The PWNA shouldn't charge a bunch of money, just be satisfied with increase in membership. The more members the PWNA has and the more certified contractors the PWNA has - the faster they will grow both in numbers (revenue) and familiarity with the general public.

sorry, got on my soap box again.

[Scott Stone 604]

You may have time during the winter, but some of us in the armer climates work 24/7/365 Not a lot of spare time for htat kind of effort, and since I am not a PWNA member, I would see zero benefit in writing a test for them.

Scott

[Tim Smith 14]

I own several business, so I too am very busy year around. Most of us do not live in AZ or warmer climates. In general, most pressure washing companies have some down time in the winter. There are always exceptions to everything. I understand that you are busy, so am I. Successful people don't have time, they make time.

Bottom line, if your not a member, then you will not get the certification. The PWNA should write the test and administer the correspondence course if they are backing it, not us.

It has to be an organization like PWNA to mean something.

I'm not a member of PWNA either, but I might if they offer a certification program like mention above. That would mean that I actually benefit from being a member.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I would like to see this thread expanded on. This is wonderful stuff! :)

I would be glad to pass this on to the PWNA. They are working on other certifications.

Thank you BOTH, for your ideas! They are always welcome.

Beth

[Jon 533]

Good idea Tim.

The one thing that would bother me is PWNA probably would charge way to much for this at home open book test and certification as a general contractor pressure washer.

Speaking as a member but not for the PWNA they charge for the books, the class and then to take the test and be certified.

I feel it should be one price for all OR at the least books only would be a seperate cost and not a very high profit making one.

I understand they have to make money on everything they sell and I am not against that but when I added up all cost for the enviromental class it was if I recall something like $700 or so.

Add to that the yearly or every couple years recertifaction and it becomes to costly for many guys and gals.

Now what Tim suggested to me is a good idea and one they should look into.

Who would give the classes or plan the books, who would check the test to be sure you passed?

How often would it have to be retaken, retested and at what cost?

Jon

[Tim Smith 14]

Jon

I agree with you. If the PWNA could keep the cost down and look at it as a way to build membership - that would be great. Later, when the certification holds weight in the publics eye, then charge more. Instead of making money, the PWNA should view it as a benefit to the members. Thats an idea - benefit for being a member.

I moved the comments to the PWNA section - you may want to move your reply to that section to get more imput other than moderators.

[Paul B. 523]

To me, open book certifications are useless as a gage for competency. It certainly does make money for the certifyer and gives a false sense of security to the consumer.

Do you certify the owner or all employees? How do you track a certified business - do you make them provide a list of all their customers and then call all the customers to verify compliance and competency?

You can't make anyone become smarter and better if they don't desire it and you certainly will find many that will find a way around it if it is expensive. (You can buy college diplomas on the internet, can't you?)

Take for example references: When someone asks for references, what do you provide? Do you provide a list of your 10 last customers, or the ones that you think will provide the best reference? Could someone provide a list of 3 close friends as a reference if they wanted to and give a false impression?

If you want certification to be effective, it needs to be (relatively) inexpensive and it needs to contain valuable information that can make a business honestly more successful. It needs to be more than a union type set-up. Vendors, distributors and suppliers should pay for majority of the costs as they derive the most benefits (thru products). In my opinion the strategy should change to focus more on manufacturer / supplyer based funding. The pressure should be placed on them and a better strategy needs to be developed to convince them on how this provides benefits to them. (I'll throw in an example of how Sherwin Williams has benefitted by building their contractor customer basis).

Let me ask some other questions:

- How many times a year do get asked for proof of insurance by your residential customers? and How many times by commercial accounts?

- How many times per year you get asked for references (residential and commercial)?

- How many times per year does your company receive a customer inquiry thru the BBB? How useful is the BBB to a business if there is no method of positive feedback?

- How many times per year have you been asked if your labor is legal and has workers comp.?

- How many times are you asked how long you have been in business and how would you survive if you didn't get any business during your first year because of lack of hands on experience?

Just a few thoughts to ponder.

In closing, (in my opinion) certification is valuable if it is inexpensive, easily available and verifyable.

[Tim Smith 14]

Paul B

You made some good points. I too have a lot of questions. The key is not to focus on why is can't happen, but how it can happen.

I disagree with open book test being useless. A person can learn from an open book as well as a close book test. Its up to that person of how much he is going to learn. Even if the person, just looks up the answers, that person will be learning. I would hope that a person would being spending their money to learn as well as to get a certification. If an organization gave proctor (close book exams), the the cost would be a lot more plus the inconvenience on the contractor taken the test. Where do you go to take the test?

[Paul B. 523]

Tim,

I agree with your last comments other than:

"Later, when the certification holds weight in the publics eye, then charge more."

In my opinion, it should always be kept at a modest price level (if it's a non-profit organization, it should be at cost plus a nominal fee for improvements and advancements).

Let me propose another question:

(I have the answer but let me ask out loud anyway.)

Should the PWNA provide a list of insurance providers by state for the P/W industry? Should the PWNA solicit insurance companies for advertising or listing? One line listing for free and larger listing for a fee. Who would that benefit? Who would it not?

[Tim Smith 14]

I'm not aware of laws that may prevent this, but

I think the PWNA should provide a list of Insurance companies that are willing to offer a discount for PWNA members.

Yes, the PWNA should sale advertisement, if that company is going to pass benefits to the members of PWNA.

If its truly an organization for the contractors - force the manufactures and chemical sales to offer a savings (discount) to PWNA members. Create a list of companies that offer discounts to PWNA members and send it to the members. If I was a member and I wanted to buy a pressure washer - I would purchase from that list to save money.

Wait - what is this? That would be another benefit for the members of PWNA.

[Paul B. 523]

I think the list should be regardless of discounts if it is to benefit the contractor since you want the largest list available to chose from and not be limited to ones that offer discounts as even with a discount it could be more expensive than the ones without a discount. If you provide a benefit to the customers, the benefit and money will come to the organization. It's hard to convince business folks to sign up to something that has a limited membership of a few hundred and offer discounts.

It's all about the approach:

Sell one apple for $500 dollars or sell $500 apples for $1 each.

What approach will get you there faster?

[Tim Smith 14]

Beth

Can you please change the title also. It appears that the title "I can't hold back any longer" is mine. Thats was another contractors title in the Moderators section. I initially posted this thread in this section under the title "Pressure Restoration Contractor Certification".

Thanks a lot.

[ron p 500]

first year membership to the PWNA should be FREE.

This will make the membership look like a huge org.

Then after 1 year start the membership due's.

Once your in,you might stay in.

When you see the MILK ads, they dont advertise for one dairy. They advertise for everyone that has cow's,sell's milk,the people that sell the container's,trucker's,feed co's,fertilizer co's,ect...ect...

all benifit from 1 ad.

How great would it be to see "pressure washing, dose a house a world of good" right in the middle of the super bowl.

One national ad could bennifit everyone from the guy's who mfg wand's to us, the contractor.

If FREE just cant be done then a min amount.

PWNA could start slow, like maybe an ad on "this old house"

Most people dont even know professional pressure washer's exsist.

[Tim Smith 14]

Ron P

PWNA promoting the industry - thats would be great.

The PWNA could give members brochures that explain - who and what the PWNA is all about and why the public should hire a PWNA member over another contractor. Members could give these brochures to customers, which would increase that members competiitve advantage and help promote the PWNA.

Once PWNA is well known and helps contractors get jobs, you will have to fight people to keep them out.

Just another potential benefit.

I like the free trial membership - show contractors that they can benefit from being a member and they will continue their membership. If you can not show a benefit, its no more than a social club.

The PWNA has really made some great improvements and should be applauded, but when it comes down to it - the question is not what I can do for the organization, but what can the organization do for me. Bang for your buck.

[CCHSNC 14]

Rain Rain go away come in the form of snow in the winter so I can plow you!

Sorry, back to the subject @ hand.

I feel it would be a great idea BUT it would have to be worth it. I currently am not a member of the pwna or the bbb, I just don't see the bonus on spending that kind of money right now. If there were perks in it that would be a different story. (I know there are good things about both org.) If the pwna offered the program and it was done well it could be benificial but how? I give my customers alot of do's and don'ts along with a list of references heck I even provide them with a list of questions that need to be answered before hireing someone to do PW or Wood care, it all comes down to the $$ (in most cases).

They don't care if someone doesn't use the proper chems for the job, leave fuzz and stripes on the wood, use junk stain or ruin there roof with too much pressure. All they know is your higher and they can get the job done for less.

e.g.Shoot I just put a bid in for a house wash of $185.00 on a 2 story 2600sf on a place that is covered in mold and the guy said he had someone tell him less. LESS! @ $185.00 I was giving it away. I just wanted to get into the neighborhood so I gave him a good rate. So I must ask How will a certification program help in todays economy? Sorry for the tangent I've just got a bunch of people in my area doing work for rediculous prices and it's starting to drive me nutssssss. :D :mad: :goodgrief :arg: :eek:

[Paul B. 523]

Any areas where it is feasible I offer a good, better and best choice ("Good" is the lowest quality / cost and "Best" is the highest quality / cost) - 9 out of 10 times the customer chooses cost over quality. I'm strictly talking quality of materials, not workmanship, as I always make sure service is high quality. Economy plays a large part in the majority's spending habits so pricing adjustments always need to be considered.

As to organizations:

Look at principles of how local newspapers operate (ignore the content for the moment, as important that is):

Newspapers have to generate membership (readership). In order to do that, they have several price levels: they sell their product at news stand and thru the mail. The monthly/yearly subscription is minimal compared to the news stand price, even though it is delivered to your door. A large number of newspapers are also given away (FREE). The total circulation is what is sold to the real customer (the advertisers) that actually make the profit for the newspaper, as they have the big bucks and can benefit the greatest from the large circulation.

You grow the circulation first, then the advertisers will grow based on circulation.

Now apply this same principle to any organization.

Some organizations have their strategies and road map upside down (kind of like an upside down pyramid), making the climb of success a lot more difficult. Successful salespeople never sell a product, they sell the benefits.

[Tim Smith 14]

Paul B

Thats is an excellent comment "Newspaper Theory". As a business consultant, I attend seminars, research, and read business theory on a regular basis. I have never heard or read organizational theory explain in such a simple, yet systematically correct format. You are 100% correct. Your Newspaper Theory is excellent in describing the business cycle of an organization. An organization like the PWNA will never make it on membership alone. The money is with the advertisment. Any organization that stands for its member, will pass on the expense to the advertisers. I consult small business and professional organizations from time to time - I've learned that the "Organizational Mission Statement" is just a bunch of words, what the organization truly stand for lies in the Financial Statement - who pays the bills. An old saying "The members pay the light bill and the advertisers pays the mortgage" holds true for successful organizations. An organization, that the members are paying the mortgage, normally is set up for big business, not the little man (member). A lot or organizations are set-up specifically to build a customer list, if you will, easy access to the customer. Case in point - there are pressure washing boards that set up to sale products --- the same holds true for organizations.

Sorry so long - that theory stuff can be lenghty.

[CCHSNC 14]

Beth,

Instead of starting a thread for this on other boards could you put a link to this one on the other boards so everyone would be chatting on the sameone?

[Scott Stone 604]

A lot of the boards get really testy about links like this. They think that you are trying to steal their members, and will ban a person and delete the link. Nice thought though.

Scott Stone

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Well, ONE bbs in particular will do that... but we won't mention that one. There are some fine BBS's out there though. I did mention this thread via email broadcast. Of course if our members wish to mention this thread elsewhere it's up to them. The PWNA Board of Directors knows it's here. :) Ask away! Share your thoughts no matter what they may be, ask questions, post ideas. You never know what will help us to better the organization so that it might become right for you.

Beth :groovy3:

[Scott Stone 604]

Okay, here is the reason that I am not a member of the PWNA, and why I do not think that PWNA certification will do anything for any contractor. It is an issue that is discussed Ad Infinitum on all the bulletin boards, and I think that EVERY board has a section that is concerned with this aspect of our industry.

What it boils down to is, if it is not marketed to potential customers, by the sanctioning organization, it will never matter what kind of letters you have following your corporate name. This "marketing" could be as simple as being placed in the trade magazines of what ever group of people the certification would benefit. What is more, If they (the PWNA) did undertake a certification process, they could justify a higher expense to obtain Certification from the contractors.

As it is, if I went in to just about any, let's say 99.999% of the building managers, or Fleet managers, or Restaurant Managers, and tried to use a certification from the PWNA as a selling point, I would likely be laughed out of the office. The same would not hold true with the IKECA certification, or the IWCA certification, because they are recognized. Recognition is the key.

I will now make a promise, right here, IF I ever have anyone that I am sellign to ask me about what kind of certifications that I hold, I will join the PWNA, and I will obtain whatever certification is necessary. Until then, after 10 years, the PWNA only appears to represent the distributors, and the Manufacturers, and uses contractors to defray expenses. What is more is that the target market is the new contractors to become members, and most of the "workshops" at the conventions are targeted at the new contractors, unless they have changed by a huge amount.

Of course, this is just my humble opinion.

Scott Stone

[One Tough Pressure 580]

Darn, Scott stole my words. I agree completely. And If the PWNA had the same recognition as ASE does to auto repair, I would already be a member.

[Paul B. 523]

I believe you have to approach things on a multi-lane super highway (parallel path).

Organzation memberships have to be affordable and tierd to the needs of the members. (What do theaters make their money on: price of tickets or popcorn, soda and candy?)

Certification always has to be affordable to the contractor, be it small, large, new or old. You let the contractor run the ball and sell it to the costumer on one path.

On another path, you work the suppliers, distributors, retailers while they are also selling the points to the customers.

On a third path, you (the organization) work to inform the customers. (There are also other paths.)

One of the keys to this is that everyone sells the certification benefits to the customers.

Now for the certification pyramid:

To make the closed book testing work (vs. open book) and keep it affordable, you let your local existing certified pressure washers administer the test. They receive a fee for administering and forward the test to the main organization. Every state and most cities have pressure washers. You don't need a lot of space: a garage, a basement, a porch, a local restaurant can be a place to take the test. The administering P/W is also given an opportunity to participate and make a little extra money. Sell the books, administer the test, re-certify ...you get my point.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Scott,

I agree. We do need to advertise in very focused and specific areas, letting people know to look for the PWNA logo (or certificate) when selecting a contract cleaner. It would add alot of value. Consumer mindshare is critical. The way I see it, if we grow that, we may eventually end up with people looking for contract cleaners through PWNA, and then we have referals to pass members as well, thus we're able to say we are indeed helping to grow the business.

PWNA could also have banner ads placed online on the web sites for various trade publications etc...

Keep it coming folks... but keep in mind we can't pull money out of thin air. If we put ideas on the table that have a cost, we should be able to show how we can pay for the idea. Non-profit orgs do have costs. :) In some cases perhaps we can get donations or reduced rates for things. We never know until we explore it.

Beth

[Jon 533]

Beth you mention cost, how about if the PWNA shows the major players/members/sponsors how it would benefit them to cover most the cost.

Also I am sure most of not all the distributors and manufactures who are members have their own ads in trade magazines so they could help get PWNA a super discount on cost.

The biggest drawback I see is companies like Hydro Tek who go after the accounts us pressure washers have and sell them equipment to do it alone and fire us, yes they do that here, why I always considered them a competitor, does not matter if they do the work, they sell the equipment and the customer does it and I am out.

Jon

[Tim Smith 14]

Money out of then air - the Advertisers will pay if they can benefit.

First - power is in numbers - membership has to grow. PWNA has to offer the members some type of benefit for that to happen, as well as reasonable rates.

I think most organizations are more for selling products (Advertisers, maufacture, etc) then representing the members. As they say, the proof is in pudding. Show me benefits to the members & show me the benefits to the advertisers - Which gets more benefits for the money they paid & that will show where an organization stands.

If an organization stands for the members and the member receives benefits, then the members will promote the organization. The key for an organization to grow is for its members to push the organization.

You know, I'm just going to stop this thread right here - We are beating a dead horse. As long as an organization has ties to big business (People or company that want to sale you something)- big business will run it, no matter who sitting in the drivers seat, the engine will be big business.

Orgainzations are just like these boards, You can tell which one have the purpose of selling product and which one is for the contractor.

The lack of response tells all.