Oil vs. Latex Stains for Cedar Shake?

[jakewojcik 14]

We currently have a 10-year old house with cedar shake siding in Atlanta, GA. I can't seem to get a straight answer from local companies on how I should refinish our house. We definitely want a colored stain, so here are our questions:

• Should we apply a cleaner (such as EFC-38) before or after the house is pressure washed? There is beginning to be some black tint to shake.
  
• After cleaning we are planning to apply a oil-based primer. Should we caulk all crevises around doors and windows before applying primer, given that the house is cedar shake and there is not currently any caulk from previous stains?
  
• Should we use a oil-based or a latex-based colored stain on cedar shake??? I have asked a number of painters, and some say you should never use latex, and some say you definitely should. What is the best to use?

Thanks for the help!

Jake

[Jarrod 22]

First of all, NEVER ask a painter anything when it comes to wood restoration. I have fixed soooooooo many of their jobs it's not even funny. This might read harsh, but it is not meant to be. I'm just being direct & honest with you. USE OIL. Keep latex & your painter INSIDE THE HOUSE.

[James 624]

well said Jarrod

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

USE OIL. Keep latex...INSIDE THE HOUSE

Rock on Jarrod! :banana:

Well put!

Beth :groovy3: :sunshine: :cup:

[jakewojcik 14]

Thanks for the responses, and I can see oil is definitely the way to go. We will definitely plan to use an oil-based primer and a oil-based color stain!

One more quick question. There is currently a natural stain on the house, and we would like to clean the cedar shake before applying the primer. Would you recommend pressure washing the house, and then adding a cleaner such as EFC-38?

There is currently discoloration in the cedar shake, so what is the most effective way to prep before adding primer?

[Jarrod 22]

FINALLY, I DID SOMETHING RIGHT! Gotta go, I'm calling Brit Hume!

[RCBill 14]

I know what you mean!

Bill

[plainpainter 217]

What I would do is mix up a solution of 1/4 cup TSP to a gallon of water, add a quart of household bleach. Then pre-wet the area of the house you are going to clean, with a garden sprayer-pump on the solution - then scrub the siding with a deck brush, after 20 or so minutes, pressure wash off. I don't know what EFC-38 is, you probably can subsitute it for the recipe above I gave. Once dry - prime the house. I am a painter, this is how I prep. I don't caulk homes with shakes and oil solid stains for some reason. If I was going to paint I would - I feel the shakes can breathe so well - there is no need to caulk in case water gets behind the shakes. If you paint - well it doesn't breathe well, so you are better off trying to prevent all water ingres with caulking. As to the oil vs. latex debate - that's rooted in the EPA with all their VOC laws. And although I think it's a lot of bunk - some people high in the EPA like to pad resumes with 'I was forefront in the reduction of VOC's with Industrial coatings blah blah blah.......'

So the powers that be are going to get rid of oil.

-plainpainter

[PressurePros 248]

What I would do is mix up a solution of 1/4 cup TSP to a gallon of water, add a quart of household bleach. Then pre-wet the area of the house you are going to clean, with a garden sprayer-pump on the solution - then scrub the siding with a deck brush, after 20 or so minutes, pressure wash off. I don't know what EFC-38 is, you probably can subsitute it for the recipe above I gave.

That last statement is contradictory. You have no idea what EFC-38 is or what it does yet you advise a homeonwer to mix up a coctail of chemicals claiming the cocktail is a reasonable substitute. You're offbase by the way. I am not saying that the mix you recommended is not effective or even maybe the best treatment but recommending that a consumer mix chemicals that at the very least gives off a toxic gas, kills vegetation and can etch glass is questionable.

http://response.restoration.noaa.gov/book_shelf/react95.exe

EFC-38 contains no bleach

[jakewojcik 14]

Ken - So would you recommend EFC-38, and would you pressure wash before or after EFC-38 is used?

[JFife 14]

How's this for contradictory......why not latex?? I am assuming this homeowner wants his house to look PAINTED, not stained. Am I right?? If we are talking a stain, as in something translucent like a hardwood floor, then oil is the way to go. But if you want the shakes to look painted, I'd go latex! Dries more flexible than oil paints. And you need to be VERY specific when picking the NAME of the product......you need a SOLID COLOR STAIN, not exterior paint. This will achieve the "painted" look, but is a product more suited to cedar shake. Of course, all of this is moot if you are indeed going with a natural, stained look.

[plainpainter 217]

toxic gas, kills vegetation, etch glass?!?! Ken, I've used this formula for years - I have never killed vegetation, never etched glass, and maybe it gives off a gas - never noticed anything, certainly nothing worse than flatulence. And not to mention, read any tech sheet on sites like pratt&lambert, Muralo, California paints - and they all tell you to make similar recipes for cleaning mildew off the side of a home, or just on the side of the TSP pail - it gives formulas as well. TSP and bleach has been a great product for cleaning homes. I don't know what EFC-38 is, probably works too - but it's something I can't buy at a hardware store. I can buy bleach and TSP - and follow the directions on the side of the TSP can, and get perfect results.

-plainpainter

[plainpainter 217]

Not to mention - TSP gives old paint a "profile" for new paint to adhere well to. Is this EFc-38 a sodium percarb solution? Yeah it's great for killing mildew and getting rid of damaged wood fibers. But in the past - if I did use sodium percarb, I mixed in TSP with it as well. 1/2 cup of oxiclean, 1/4 cup TSP to a gallon of hot water. It's more expensive, and I never noticed any vegetation damage with bleach, and bleach kills the mildew faster. So why not just use bleach?

-plainpainter

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

you need a SOLID COLOR STAIN

Thank you for that clarity! That's were I was heading. To be clearer I would not paint cedar shakes, but there are solid stains that will give you the look.

Beth

[PressurePros 248]

plainpainter = professional with experience

Mr Wojcik=homeowner

That was my point. As I said in post, I am not saying that your solution wasn't viable. You aren't making suggestions to another contractor, I just think you should keep that in mind. EFC-38 has TSP in it. A couple of other ingredients that also lend it well to paint prep. If a house is coverd in mold, bleach is probably the tool. The EFC-38 will work, but the nature of vertical surface might not give it enough dwell time to effectively kill all the spores or cut through thicker growth. For what it's worth, plainpainter (what is your first name?) some of the most toxic gases have no scent.

Mr Wojcik, cleaning and sealing a cedar house is no small project. I would not even trust most guys that do decks unless I saw their work on houses.. different beast. If you insist on doing it yourself I would probably first use a very diluted bleach to kill any mold growth. Rinse well.. I would follow with EFC-38 applied per manufacturer's directions (does anyone know if Russell even sells to non-professionals?) I would then follow with a pH balancing acid. This sounds like a ton of work and it is, but I have specialty pumps and application methods (not to mention a labor force) that would allow me to do it very quickly.

For a sealer, I recommend a semi-transparent, oil or alkyd based penetrating sealer. It will look better and if you neglect maintenance, the worst thing that happens is fading. Solid stains and paints will peel. Once the substrate is exposed and water can accumulate in the wood, rot happens very quickly. In addition, you will not need a primer and multiple applications.

If you cannot find a suitable product, we sell a kit at retail that would suit your needs.

Feel free to email me at customerservice@restore-a-deck.com or send me a pm here and I will give you more info.

[plainpainter 217]

Ken, my name is Dan. Sorry didn't realize this was a homeowner. But to chime in, I think this homeowner should also invest in a long painters' pole and deck scrubbing brush head. I believe scrubbing chemicals into the siding increases the effectiveness of the chemicals - and the pole allows you to scrub most parts from the ground. I also think one can use weaker dilutions of chemicals if you scrub. As for the stain - I have used lots of oil solid stain on cedar shake homes, mine included. Solid stain doesn't usually peel, it can sometimes - but it's so minor, and it touches up easily. And unless you are going with a light color - it is self-priming.

-plainpainter

[newlook 265]

Great thread all the way around.

I don't do wood so I am going to ask a silly?...

If the stain is oil base for the cedar shake(s) couldn't the oil fuel a fire if there was one?

[plainpainter 217]

The volatiles in oil based products is the mineral spirits - and they're long gone after several weeks. As well - the wood in itself is already a fuel for fire.

-plainpainter