house washing with deck cleaning

[JohnW 14]

Hello all,

Most of you know me from elsewhere, as I haven't posted much on here, but for those that don't, I've been pressure washing part time for 2.5 years, residential and commerical.

My question is this, whenever I bid a residential job, I'm often asked about cleaning the deck. I don't currently have the knowledge to do a proper deck cleaning, so I usually try and educate the homeowner from what I do know and tell them that applying heavy pressure to a deck isn't the proper way to clean it and then I go on to let them know there is a right way, but I don't offer that type of cleaning.

If you were a part timer like myself, would you try and learn the proper way to do decks and add that as a service or would you try and sub the work out to someone else or what? I'd just like to get some feedback on this if possible.

Thanks,

John Werling

Superior Pressure Washing

Fayetteville, GA

[PLD 14]

When I started to wash off the area I previously scrubbed - all the nasty stuff just came off effortlessly, no need for pressure washing. And what was revealed was this beautiful cedar wood - the part that I had also applied chemicals to, but didn't brush, nothing came off - it looked the same as before. So what can you conclude from this? I think the above strength of chemicals is pretty spot on. I didn't use bleach, and was able to kill all fungus, lichen, moss, get rid of all dead wood fibers with just scrubbing and sodium percarbonate. If the chemicals are suppose to do all the work - how come the other areas of fence I didn't scrub, nothing came off?

"Chemicals do all the work" is a metaphor to illustrate that with proper chemicals physical pressure can be kept to a minimum. That does not mean that you can just spray soap on a house and leave. If it did, no one would need water, just a deckster and a big bag of chems. Agitation is required and that's what a pressure washer does. Your experiment just proved that agitation increases cleaning efficency.

Research this here on TGS - Time, Temperature, Chem Strength, Agitation.

Hint: pressure washing = agitation.

Plain, despite how you may feel about this thread no one here is bashing you for your methods. What you are hearing is a whole bunch of people who want you to be successful saying "Dude, you're doing what? Let me show you how to do that much faster and easier." Now, some people have more grace than others at conveying that, but the message is the same.

For example, my helper and I can do a quality wash on a 2000sq.ft house in 30 minutes. We can prep a 12x12 ground level deck for stain in less than an hour. If you can do that with a brush, you are the man! If not, there are people here who can show you how to do that with quality and without damage.

[PLD 14]

I get those same fuzzies using sodium hydroxide, sodium percarbonate, oxalic acid. Everything I have used makes fuzzies. [..] but I don't damage decks

Dan, if you're getting fuzzies with percarb you're over pressuring.

Barry - I have several tips, one is very gentle -basically for car cleaning, one is about 45 degree spray and the other is like a 5 degree spray

[...]

what exactly the pressure is, I haven't sat down to do the math

I'll bet you lunch I can tell you the pressure without ever seeing your rig. And my guess is: 2900psi. Get a gauge and then let me know where you're taking me to lunch.

Oh, and if you want to double or nothing for dessert, your "car wash" tip is probably black. That is a soap tip. Your "45" tip is white and is actually a 40deg tip. Your "5" degree is yellow, and is 15 degrees.

Do you know what "size" tip you should use for wood cleaning? Or what size you are using? If not, call me. Or anyone else here. They'll be happy to show you better, faster, and more profitable ways to achieve top shelf results.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Limeade...

PLEASE fill out your signature. See the rules please.... don't be shy, we don't bite, at least not too much.

Thank you.

Beth :cup: :dancing:

Coffee! Coffee! Give the woman coffee!!!

[plainpainter 217]

Sure I'll call a few people, as to the pressure - that's the pressure at the tip, what it is 10 inches away is a different story. As to the sodium percarbonate and fuzzies - that experiment I did where I scrubbed my cedar fence and then used my thumb over a hose to rinse, that gave the fuzzies. Fuzzies are just the dead wood fibers that haven't completely let go. What I use to gauge as to when too much pressure is being applied, is how much wood is being 'scalloped' from the spring grain as opposed to the summer grain. As long as I am not gouging out the spring grain - and the wood is pretty flat, then I am good.

-Dan

[Mike Williamson 198]

Sure I'll call a few people, as to the pressure - that's the pressure at the tip, what it is 10 inches away is a different story. As to the sodium percarbonate and fuzzies - that experiment I did where I scrubbed my cedar fence and then used my thumb over a hose to rinse, that gave the fuzzies. Fuzzies are just the dead wood fibers that haven't completely let go. What I use to gauge as to when too much pressure is being applied, is how much wood is being 'scalloped' from the spring grain as opposed to the summer grain. As long as I am not gouging out the spring grain - and the wood is pretty flat, then I am good.

-Dan

It's a board, not a tree. They're ALL dead wood fibers! They're DAMAGED wood fibers.

[PressurePros 249]

Dan, I agree with you. Fuzzies can occur regardless of chemical used or pressure. I'm still trying to figure out the holy grail to avoid them.

[plainpainter 217]

LOL - Mike, I meant UV damaged or whatever it is fiber. Basically, I only like to remove just enough wood to reveal that beautiful color fresh looking wood.

I had a friend pressure wash my deck years ago - and he gouged out all the spring grain - and the deck looked horrible.

Ken - we finally agree on something, yay! I think fuzzies are just part and parcel with cleaning wood. As I have just said - I saw my friend pulverize the dickens out of my deck - and definitely don't ever want to do that to anyone's deck. But in order to reveal fresh wood - a certain amount of wood

the so-called 'damaged' fibers have to be removed to reveal the healthier albeit dead wood. And those are what I believe are the fuzzies. Perhaps a light sanding after the deck has dried?

-Dan

[PressurePros 249]

Dan look into an Osborne brush. You use them on a 7" polisher.

[PLD 14]

Sure I'll call a few people, as to the pressure - that's the pressure at the tip, what it is 10 inches away is a different story. As to the sodium percarbonate and fuzzies - that experiment I did where I scrubbed my cedar fence and then used my thumb over a hose to rinse, that gave the fuzzies. Fuzzies are just the dead wood fibers that haven't completely let go. What I use to gauge as to when too much pressure is being applied, is how much wood is being 'scalloped' from the spring grain as opposed to the summer grain. As long as I am not gouging out the spring grain - and the wood is pretty flat, then I am good.

-Dan

Yes, that is the pressure at the tip. But done properly, the pressure at the tip should be about 800-1000.

Obviously you have made up your mind that your methods are fine. Not having seen your work it may very well be. Going only from your own descriptions posted in this thread, you are the person I use as an example of why a customer should pay me more money to have the job done right. Why? From your posts you are;

- washing with 3000 psi.

- gauging success based on how much softwood is removed.

- Consider "pretty flat" as a good benchmark.

As I said before, people here are trying to help you improve your speed and results so you can earn more money, retain more customers, and get more referral business. If you wish to disregard that advice, it is certainly your perogative to do so.

[plainpainter 217]

Philip - I am confused. I have seen alot of decks - and I have been involved with lots of deck cleanings with other companies. Why do I have to strive for 800psi at the tip? This is what is confusing to me - yes I have a 3000psi pressure washer. But I don't use the 10 degree tip and place it at 3 inches away from the wood - I am not clueless. I use a wider spray 40 degrees I believe and hold it like a foot away. I don't see any damage done to my decks when I wash this way. If in fact I am damaging - please enlighten me.

Like I said before I had a friend pressure wash my decks in the past and he would gouge out the spring grain - all I am doing is lifting off the damaged fibers. Let's see - in general I aim at the cracks between the boards and swing my wand in a pendulum motion - so as to not deliver any 'starting' marks. Then I move sideways - continually swaying the wand, so as to have an evenly cleaned board. And then move to the next crack - with my wand about a foot away at the closest approach in the swinging action. And the boards look nice and clean with no gouging of the wood - how is this an unprofessional job?

Thanks for the tip Ken.

-Dan

[Neil_Asheville 114]

Dan, I don't believe anyone intends to question your end product as being anything less than professional. I'm sure you have happy customers and that is really the prize. Proper sizing of your tips won't necessarily "earn you more money, retain more customers, or get more referral business" but it will reduce your risk of damage. I tend to take away risks when I can, not add to them. I'm finding there are as many opinions as to how to achieve the same end as there are tools to use to get there. What the thread has suggested is reduce the guesswork and pressure down to a tip you know produces a max 1000psi at 3".

It's the means to that end that have been the biggest learning curve for me. I used to use the 'white' tip to clean a deck. Actually, they're still white, just a bigger hole:lgbounces

cheers,

/neil

[plainpainter 217]

I can see your point Neil - it's getting tough doing everything by myself, and in the event I have one of my guys {who is use to exterior painting} help me out on a deck. Perhaps a tip that is max 1000 psi at 3" will save my butt in the event I hand over the wand to my help.

I do have happy customers - and some pains in the a$$ ones as well. LOL - I have this one customer with two homes on Martha's Vineyard, a home on the Maine Coast, a home on Hawaii - as well as his primary residence on the wealthy north shore of Boston, MA. And I asked $900 to apply cleaning chemicals to his deck, scrub, pressure wash, and then seal his deck. It is 10 feet by 50 feet long, wraps around an outside corner of a house about 80 feet of balustrades - two stairways each 10 steps. And he had an absolute cow at the price. And was angry that the deck needed to be resealed after two years - even though it has full southern exposure, no shade whatsoever, and is up against a white house. Made me sick to my stomach. I did the deck 2 years ago for $750 - and didn't think that was enough especially since it swallowed like 7 gallons on the first pass.

-Dan

[Don L 14]

Plainpainter,

I would be very interested in any info you have on artillery fungus.

[Crownroyal 14]

I think a deck of that size would be about 1500-2500 without seeing it; it’s hard to give a price. You need to charge more to do that type of work. Educate your customer and they will understand why it costs so much. Whenever I receive a deck lead I get excited to talk to the owners, I love educating them about decks so they understand what it takes to do the job correctly. I feel if even I give them enough info so they can make an educated decision I have accomplished something. When the other guy that give his loooww price and has no knowledge about the process or just does a splash and dash, I know I will be hearing from the owners. I tell the owners if I was first to talk to them to ask certain ?’s to the other contractors so they know what to ask. I think most people will feel good if you do that; it makes them feel like they know what they need to ask for them to make the right decision on whom to use.

[plainpainter 217]

Don - I use a gallon of hot water with 1/4 of TSP and 1 quart of bleach, apply, scrub, and then rinse like 20 minutes later. Although I have been reading that sodium hypochlorite bleach isn't really all that effective as a sanitizer in basic solutions. And in fact have read that much lower concentrations of bleach can be used as long as you make the solution acidic with white vinegar or something. so I will be reviewing my chemicals, and experimenting

Dan - I think all the professional pressure washers and deck stainers would go bankrupt up here in the Northeast. I am a painter by trade - and have been picking up more pressure washing work, just to make that trickle I call a salary a little more of a current. And I have been astonished how cheap my clients are. I did a coffee table 2 summers ago, with 4 coats of Spar/yacht varnish which was imported from the Netherlands and cost me $135/gallon.

The very best stuff money could buy, or a rip-off - not too sure. But I skipped putting on a coat last summer - but stored the coffee table in the shed out of the snow. And it still has failure! So how do you even begin to educate customers that highly thinned alkyk/linseed oil transparent deck stain can't last 5 years in New England weather, when they don't realize that 4 coats of marine varnish needs sanding and a new coat every single year!

I personally feel most of these 'nouveau' rich people - really can't afford to maintain their own properties. Sure they have BMW's, 4400 sq. ft. McMansions, summer homes, etc. But when it comes down to having a professional come down, who needs lots of money just to clear his overhead, and they balk at the price. I just lose my mind

-Dan

[Crownroyal 14]

Dan I guess where talking apples and oranges. I was talking about your prices for that half wrap around deck.

I don’t think buying $135.00 gallon stain for a coffee table makes you great at your job or even more educated in your profession; buying a Rolex doesn’t make me rich and smart I don’t see how buying expensive stain can make you a better woody.

What I meant was don’t lower your price just to get work keep yourself up high and try for an outstanding quality job. Make sure you leave them thinking damn I don’t think I’ve seen anyone work that hard and produce such great quality.

I’ve found most people in many professions think I can do x amount of jobs for this price but I have to do xxxxx amount of jobs to stay afloat. I say do x amount of jobs but charge xxxxxx amount for that work, but you better have the quality to back up the price hence (knowledge is money.) See if someone would take you up for a labor for learning deal, and gain some knowledge to better help your cause. Look into a round table meeting. Can some one from up north maybe be willing to help Dan out? After you have learned more about pw profession you will need to educate yourself on sales.

It’s worth the time. Dan You can even call me and maybe I’ll come up to help you out.

Dan Mathis

Dagan Exteriors

NN VA

757-246-1102