Do you clean without chems at all?

[Tim UK 14]

With this ride I'm currently on (using chems this and chems that), I was wondering if anyone uses pressure alone to clean furniture and decking?

Is is possible to achieve great results doing this? Holding back the pressure where appropriate?

Tim

[Roger Oakley 14]

With this ride I'm currently on (using chems this and chems that), I was wondering if anyone uses pressure alone to clean furniture and decking?

Is is possible to achieve great results doing this? Holding back the pressure where appropriate?

Tim

Tim,

Nearly all the furniture I do is without chems, just keep an eye on the pressure, or you will trash the wood.

All decks i do are now "bleahed bathed" thanks to "Sir Jim Folley" it is quicker and the results are fantastic.

Roger

[Tim UK 14]

Thanks Roger,

Tried to ring you tonight, but you were still out working, the lady who answered the phone told me, sorry to miss you.

Catch you again sometime.

Tim

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Chems help us to get the best result out of the job and provides for a better surface to apply a product to.

We do not use pressure only to clean with, not even on concrete. The chems help to do the work faster and easier than would otherwise be accomplished without them. And another point being that with the chems we are able to limit any type of damage that a pressure washer can do alone because we don't need to exert force to clean with. It is more like a speed rinse. With the products we use, it (the pw'er) has become more of a speed rinse tool instead of the primary cleaning tool.

Let me give an example: Would you try to clean a dish with dried egg on it with just water and a scratch pad? Or would you use a dish soap and give it some time to soak so that when it's done, you can simply rinse off the plate and its as clean as it can be?

What about the dishes with grease on them? Does it come clean with water and wiping or do you need something to cut the grease with? Does hot water help in the process?

How about your laundry? Would you just leave it to the water and the agitation to clean your clothes? Will water alone remove the stains? Will water alone rid them of the smell? No. We all use a detergent and 'BLEECH' when needed.

When you go to a car wash, do you just use the pw'er wand to clean you vehicle with or do you apply soap?

The Philosophy is the same with pw'ing. The appropriate cleaner and dwell time gives you a better clean and minimal harm to the surface. The arguement is that chems can do harm. Yes they can if not used properly by someone who has been either educated or instructed on their proper uses and exposure limits. But where's the trade off using pressure alone to clean with? I don't see one. Pressure alone can do great damage to a surface that is not hard enough to withstand it. Even concrete can be damaged by a pw'er. Wood, especially furniture is especially susceptible to damage if not used with caution. Even pvc furniture can be damaged by using pressure alone. (trust me on this one, had to replace a table because of it in our 1st year)

I hope this gives you the information you need to make a decision on which method you want to use in the future and the choice is yours...but remember, your business and reputation will be riding on it.

Rod!~

[Tim UK 14]

Cheers, Rod.

[Roger Oakley 14]

Chems help us to get the best result out of the job and provides for a better surface to apply a product to.

We do not use pressure only to clean with, not even on concrete. The chems help to do the work faster and easier than would otherwise be accomplished without them. And another point being that with the chems we are able to limit any type of damage that a pressure washer can do alone because we don't need to exert force to clean with. It is more like a speed rinse. With the products we use, it (the pw'er) has become more of a speed rinse tool instead of the primary cleaning tool.

Let me give an example: Would you try to clean a dish with dried egg on it with just water and a scratch pad? Or would you use a dish soap and give it some time to soak so that when it's done, you can simply rinse off the plate and its as clean as it can be?

What about the dishes with grease on them? Does it come clean with water and wiping or do you need something to cut the grease with? Does hot water help in the process?

How about your laundry? Would you just leave it to the water and the agitation to clean your clothes? Will water alone remove the stains? Will water alone rid them of the smell? No. We all use a detergent and 'BLEECH' when needed.

When you go to a car wash, do you just use the pw'er wand to clean you vehicle with or do you apply soap?

The Philosophy is the same with pw'ing. The appropriate cleaner and dwell time gives you a better clean and minimal harm to the surface. The arguement is that chems can do harm. Yes they can if not used properly by someone who has been either educated or instructed on their proper uses and exposure limits. But where's the trade off using pressure alone to clean with? I don't see one. Pressure alone can do great damage to a surface that is not hard enough to withstand it. Even concrete can be damaged by a pw'er. Wood, especially furniture is especially susceptible to damage if not used with caution. Even pvc furniture can be damaged by using pressure alone. (trust me on this one, had to replace a table because of it in our 1st year)

I hope this gives you the information you need to make a decision on which method you want to use in the future and the choice is yours...but remember, your business and reputation will be riding on it.

Rod!~

Rod I agree with what you say above, but what-ever method you use, you should use great care and caution. I stated above that I use water only to clean furniture, but you need to know your machine, pressure and water flow etc, to get the results.

[PressurePros 248]

Roger, how could you get results when water, whether high flow or high pressure cannot kill mold spores unless it is very hot? Very hot water will raise grain and destroy wood furniture.

[Roger Oakley 14]

Roger, how could you get results when water, whether high flow or high pressure cannot kill mold spores unless it is very hot? Very hot water will raise grain and destroy wood furniture.

Ken,

I don't use hot water, only have a cold water machine. We have more algae and general dirt then mold really, over here. Furniture that I cleaned and treated/stained last year still looks good and was not damaged in any way.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If you are using just water and no chems, the only factor for cleaning is the water, and the tool making the water work is the PSI. Anything over 1000 PSI can cause damage. As stated above, you are not killing and mildew or algae spores this way either.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I stated above that I use water only to clean furniture, but you need to know your machine, pressure and water flow etc, to get the results.

Taking that this seems to be addressing me, I will respond. Obviously. In addition, it needs to be made aware for those reading that the distance you are using the wand to your surface can be a variable factor in the type of "chisel effect" you are using to clean with. We generally use the wand at distances of about 6-8 inches away from the surface with a 25* tip to remove the loosened fibers and material from the surface. This gives us the least amount of impact to the surface yet still completes the cleaning to our needs. Sometimes you can bring the wand in a little closer for targeted cleaning like on knots where sealer tends to be more difficult to remove.

There are many techniques involved in wood restoration and attention to many details in the process helps to obtain the results like you see on our company websites photo gallery.

Understanding the capabilities of the machine are good to know but its what you do at the end of the wand that makes the difference.

Rod!~

[Roger Oakley 14]

Rod,

I use pretty much the same techniques as you have stated.

I also use a twin lance and can control the water flow from it.

Couple of things that may differ over here are,

99% of the decks I clean are what I think you would call PT wood, and are either scandinavian redwood or yellow balau, have never been sealed, stained etc so removing sealer is not an issue. Sealing is not a big thing over here as it is in the states, people seem to like the natural colour of the wood which is mainly white. Even after washing and suggesting sealing or staining the answer is "No I just want it cleaned", or "I'll do it myself at a later date". People just don't want to pay the extra.

When washing deck's I'll bleach bath a deck as the results far outway washing with water only, if people are prepaired for the extra cost. If I am staining/sealing the deck myself then that's a different matter. The other thing the moment you say I'm going to be using chemicals to some home owners, panic panic my lawn, my plants, do you have to use chemicals etc, I 'm sure you know what I mean.

After cleaning furniture, I nearly always apply a finish of some sort, depending what the owner wants, as just washed furniture can look rough,

yes it's clean but it need's a little extra for the wow factor.

So these are some of my reasons for washing with water only.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Roger,

Understood, my initial post was for Tim's consideration and not a commentary on your methods or procedures. Every one needs to see both sides of a coin in order to understand this trade. No slight intended for washing w/o chems, just pointing out the pro's and con's which can play into the process.

Our customers have been educated to understand the benefits of protecting their investment and our business is based upon an environmental standpoint that we are doing our part to help slow deforestation by making wood structures last longer than they otherwise would if not protected.

I don't know how environmentally conscious your clientèle are in the UK but I cannot understand the shortsightedness in their decision to just clean it and not follow up with the protective part. I guess each has a different perspective on how to protect an investment.

Thanks for the insight.

Rod!~

[RPetry 564]

Roger,

the moment you say I'm going to be using chemicals to some home owners, panic panic my lawn, my plants, do you have to use chemicals etc

You Brits are a country full of gardeners. Those crazy privets sculptured into mazes, estates manicured to perfection, etc.

Here in upper middle class America, things are much different. People may talk a good line, being "green" and for some of the more wacky environmental causes. But if their neighbor's wood looks better than theirs, chemicals be damned, do whatever is necessary.

Many are the same people that bemoan global warming, air pollution, and the increasing price of petrol, yet drive their monster SUV's with abandon. It is very amusing.

[Tim UK 14]

I love the imagery of the 'Brit'. Rick!!!

If only... well, of course, some of the English are VERY particular, and some are not. I see many a wooden structure fall into disrepair - it really is as if the 'Brits' (yuk, btw!) don't want to pay to keep something going, they would rather pay more in the long run, but buying a fence and then letting it rot away. Shame.

But there are folk who Do care about every last detail... I have a window cleaning customer who takes a great deal of interest in the pure water cleaning I offer becuas ehe says it helps him to identify potential problems with his old wooden window frames. If only EVERYBODY took that sort of care with their homes.

No, some people are lazy and mean, and want an easy way out, and they aren't the kind of people I was as customers, either as pressure washing/wood care, or window cleaning either.

Bit off topic that. Sorry.

Anyway, I am a lot more enlightened now because of the interesting exhange of ideas and opinions betwixt Rod and Roger.

For myself, I shall be trying a weak sodium hypochlorite mix on Friday, on two garden chairs and a table, to see how it goes for me.

My test areas will be underneath the items, so that any differences don't show up, and I will be applying an oil (brand name in UK is Ronseal) to all items.

Thanks everyone, esp Rick, to whom I shall lend my bowler hat and red London bus!

Tim

[RPetry 564]

Tim,

I love the imagery of the 'Brit'. Rick!!!

One thing you must know, us colonials are very parochial. Most of us know next to nothing about the outer world.

it really is as if the 'Brits' (yuk, btw!)

Case in point. Is "limey" any better? See what I mean, we do not even know an acceptible term for citizens of our mother country.

No, some people are lazy and mean, and want an easy way out

That must be true throughout the world. Human nature. That is one reason I prefer dogs. English Springer Spaniels by the way!

I shall be trying a weak sodium hypochlorite mix on Friday

Very good for killing mold and mildew, make sure to add a bit of dishwashing soap for a surfacant (helps lift off the dirt). If there is no current oil in the furniture wood that you want to preserve or another type of stain, I would prefer a sodium percarbonate wood cleaner followed by an acid "bath". Really brightens up the wood, and is especially good when applying light colored or clear stains.

However, it seems that our UK cousins are lacking in the wood preparatiion products we have available in the States.

[Roger Oakley 14]

Rod,

Thanks for the reply, yes trying to educate clients that to seal/stain/protect is a good investment, but it's a up-hill task, but 'I'll get there.

As far as people being "green/environmentally conscious" goes people are really starting to do so, and here's a point for you, a couple of councils in the London area, you get fined if you don't seperate bottles, newspapers etc from your weekly refuse collection. So you can see the chemicals issue's I have sometimes.

Rick.

"Limey" mate that is so old hat.

If you guy's get "Eastenders" on BBC world out there it might help bring you up to speed. :lgsideway

Rick Quote

"Many are the same people that bemoan global warming, air pollution, and the increasing price of petrol, yet drive their monster SUV's with abandon. It is very amusing." Yep same over here too.

"However, it seems that our UK cousins are lacking in the wood preparatiion products we have available in the States."

This is also true, I am looking to import from the USA at some point,as it is a pain trying to get anything even close to what you guys have, over here.

Roger

[RPetry 564]

Roger,

"Limey" mate that is so old hat.

You think that is old, you should meet me! I think it dates from at least WWII and refers to the navy issuing limes to help prevent scurvy.

I am looking to import from the USA at some point

Sounds like a potential business venture to me.