Cjude 14 Report post Posted June 1, 2006 I ran accross you guys while trying to find help with my 3 year old cedar deck. I built the deck myself and it is great. Unfortunately, I know little to nothing about stains and by deck looks like it. I want my deck to look good for at least a season, but so far I have stained it each of its three years with poor results. 1st, I stained with Cabbot clear oil based sealer. Big mistake, no UV protection. Next year, stripped (using Cabbot problem solver + brightner) and stained with Cabbot clear solution cedar stain. Looked nice for a week, and blothing started soon after. Last year I just put a coat of the Cabbot clear cedar stain on again, no stripping. Looks bad. I called SealMaxx for an estimate (2K for my 12 x 14 deck), They said they are like a Pella window, expensive but a life time solution. I just plain don't trust these guys as they can't answer any of my questions with a straight answer. I looked at one of their customers who were supposed to be very happy, and found out that the were very happy that Sealmaxx replaced all the shrubs they killed when they did their job. The deck looked like driftwood you see on the beach, only harder. I've read your postings and read some stuff on a website about Wood tux, it seems great. I am just looking for a good contractor to do the job as I really have had no luck. However, I don't even know what my deck needs. If anyone could educate me or point me in the right direction. Thanks, Chris. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Celeste 341 Report post Posted June 2, 2006 Where's Michael Heane? You can search for "Tropical Wave". I know he's in your area and does wood :) As for SealMaxx - I'd travel to Chicago from NC before seeing you go that route! Celeste Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Tracy Handl 108 Report post Posted June 2, 2006 A company in your area I would recommend is Roof to Decks Restoration. Their main Co. phone # is 651-699-3504. They have a local branch near you. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RPetry 564 Report post Posted June 3, 2006 Chris, Try: NORTHERN ILLINOIS DECK WORKS Since 1998 - Chicagolands Deck Restoration Specialists! www.northernillinoisdeckworks.com 847-225-0258 Business 847-877-2481 Cell Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cjude 14 Report post Posted June 3, 2006 Thanks for the responces. I will give all these guys a call. I did try Northern Illinois Deck Works, but they made a few appointments but never came out. When I have called some other companies, they have asked what I wanted. Should I tell then that I need the entire deck stripped? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PressurePros 249 Report post Posted June 3, 2006 SealMaxx: Don't get me started. I have heard NOTHING but negative things about these guys and the product. I love Wood Tux, use it all the time but.... I don't recommend a homeowner to apply it.. especially to cedar. Ready Seal would be your best bet. Strip it again, ph Balance it and buy twice as much Ready Seal as you think you will need. You may get 100 sf/gallon coverage if you are lucky. With Ready Seal you just have to clean every year and reapply. If I were a homeowner, this is what I would use exclusively. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
James 625 Report post Posted June 3, 2006 Ken, not on cedar with the coverage only PT. Cedar depends on the age and if it was sealed previously. Also what grade. Did I say I hate cedar? I just did 6 of these babies. Western, southern , eastern and northern. LOL.......Figure about 200sqft less than 5 years old and never been sealed for " oil of lay" anti aging cream RS. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PressurePros 249 Report post Posted June 3, 2006 Oil of Sealay. I hate cedar too. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Cjude 14 Report post Posted June 7, 2006 I have contacted the people you guys have suggested, and hopefully this will work out as I am absolutly certin that I am not going to do this myself. I really appreciate the knowledge base you guys have, and your willingness to share. Two quick questions: 1) what do you guys think of ready seal--one of the contractors offered this solution, and 2) I am not sure if the Tropical Wave guy is still around as his number is not in service, any one hear from him? Thanks, Chris Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Celeste 341 Report post Posted June 7, 2006 Michael H. Tropical Wave Mobile Power Wash "Exterior House Washing" "Professional Wood Restoration" "Beati Pacifici" Nextel 847-396-0695 TropicalWavePW@aol.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rlka 14 Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Chris, I just found this site, and I'm in the same position you're in, also in the Chicago area. Only difference is I have cedar siding problems, as well as deck issues. Did you follow up with any of these leads? Did any of them pan out? Thanks for any help you can give me. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFife 14 Report post Posted July 7, 2006 I've got a guy in Chi. the next few days, depending on how big the cedar home is, we could bid it. I think my email addy is in my signature, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JFife 14 Report post Posted July 7, 2006 nope... jonathanmarkfife@hotmail.com Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted July 7, 2006 Cedar is a problematic wood especially when used for decking. Rails perform well but the floors always give everyone the most trouble. Plan on annual maintenance once you have found a service provider or product you choose to use as a diy'er. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harley 14 Report post Posted July 10, 2006 I found this site because my Mom and Dad just had his deck done by Sealmaxx (I know... sorry to hear that!) and the week after, my wife and I saw it... it looked great of course. So he gave me the "flyer" and I looked up sealmaxx and here I am. I've read as much as I could (being a new member) (and Sunday night!) but I’m hoping you can help. First, it sounds like I need to get to Mom and Dad's house and seal their deck... or have one of you do it! Maybe I can seal it or stain it but you'd be the ones to tell me that! This deck sits one foot off the ground so getting underneath is not an option. They just had this done, and of course, all the sales rep told them was that there is a 25 year warranty. So Dad's thinking he's got it made, right!?? They didn't say anything about sealing it to prevent UV rays; they didn't say anything about the underside (mold and mildew). So I would like to know what to do to take care of it for them. Oh, and by the way, he gave me the "flyer" because we are looking at putting in a new deck. We were thinking of going with cedar but after reading this stuff tonight, I'm not so sure it's that great to have. Any suggestions on what type of wood to use? Has anyone heard of "GeoDeck" Sorry but I'm hearing/reading so much that I don't know which way to go. Thanks in advance for your help Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted July 10, 2006 A 25 year warranty is in relation to the life expectation of the decking. That part of the deck gets the most wear, tear and environmental degradation. If anything goes wrong with the prep phase before installing one of these unrealistic life expectancy sealers then you the owner have the arduous task of either finding someone who is willing to deal with the problems (not likely) or replacing the deck. Not many people know that these endurance figures purported on labels comes from the product being tested in an Environmental Accelerator Simulator which gives the developer some idea of how long the product could last. This is all lab testing and does not necessarily take into consideration that life happens to a deck! The technology incorporated into the product has not existed long enough to have gone through that type of real life testing to validate a 25 year endurance. It would have had to have been developed and tested since at the earliest 1980! 25-30 years is a long time to wait for a return on investment don't you think? So many other variables take place 24/7 such as 30*-50* temperature changes in as little as a couple of hours, coupled with the woods expansion and contraction rate which no product on the market can match. Moisture can be a big contributor of degradation to any surface coating in the form of aiding mold, mildew, wood fluctuation and dry rot (a fungus). As you mentioned, the deck is very close to the ground which means you cannot coat all sides of a board. This is the first clue that a label is misleading you because they all state that ALL 6 sides of the board must be coated other wise it voids the products performance. The number of builders currently doing this is probably not even happening to be more than 5 and that would happen to be by special request and at a significantly higher cost to the consumer. Once the deck is built, if not pre-coated before assembly, there are edges unreachable due to design not to mention the sides which are often so close together that access to coat them is hit and miss and more likely miss. Any coating that boasts it's life span being more than a few years without regular maintenance is promoting homeowner neglect and definite product failure. A deck is like any other part of a home and needs to be taken care of on a regular basis and that basis is entirely dependent upon the product applied to it. 1 year intervals at the least and 2-3 if you are buying a higher quality stain. Don't be fooled by marketing and extravagant claims. They are geared towards those who do not want to do much of anything to begin with and they get what they pay for...a much bigger cost of maintenance than they bargained for. I hope this clears up some of the confusion... Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harley 14 Report post Posted July 10, 2006 thanks Rod, what would you suggest we use for wood to build our deck? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted July 10, 2006 Avoid cedar or redwood. They are problematic for decking material. They can be fine for rail systems as long as they are not the rail cap piece. Pressure treated pine can be a less expensive alternative for a complete deck. If you have the budget, try building the floors at least with Ipe'. This is extremely dense and hard wood that has great durability and will outlast your home. Most people use it for the decking while those who can afford it will also have their rails built with it as well. Ipe' in our area runs about $2.85 a linear foot if your builder has volume buying power, otherwise you could spend up to $4.85 a linear foot. For the sake of comparison, PTP (pressure treated pine) goes for as little as .60-.85 a linear foot depending upon the cut. Cedar and Redwood are hard to come by in our area and can only be obtained by special order. Another alternative to wood for railing, around here PVC is becoming popular but for me it is not a preference. It is sold as a 'low maintenance' system but the drawbacks are that age makes it brittle and can be unsafe for use on high profile decks above 2' off the ground. One definite suggestion I will give is to make sure that the deck is built using screws. Nails tend to loose their grip and can allow the decking to warp and cup more readily. Back to you Harley. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harley 14 Report post Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks for the reply... I've heard of Ipe but i can't find it around here. Have you heard of GeoDeck? Oh, and should I be putting something on Mom N Dad's deck for UV protection now that they're in this "mess"? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted July 11, 2006 found this site because my Mom and Dad just had his deck done by Sealmaxx (I know... sorry to hear that!) and the week after, my wife and I saw it... it looked great of course First, it sounds like I need to get to Mom and Dad's house and seal their deck... or have one of you do it! Maybe I can seal it or stain it Now I am the one who is confused. Did they (sealmaxx) finish the job? If so, the deck should be maintained according to their directions. If not, then yes, you would need to seal it if it hasn't begun to turn grey. If it has been more than a few weeks since the deck was washed it will have the beginnings of microbial growth and that would need to be removed first. The product from my information already has UV protection incorporated into it. As you have mentioned the deck is only a foot above ground and maintaining it from cracking and peeling will be the main challenge due to the lack of proper airflow below the deck contributing to excessive moisture retention in the wood. I don't mean to lead you into believing that they are in a mess with this product installed (if that is the case) but the problems they will face not 'if' it starts to fail but more a matter of when. The other variables I am not aware of is how old the deck is to begin with, what the deck has previously had installed and the intervals at which maintenance was performed...ie every-1, 2, 3 years etc. They spent a great deal of money I would guess and the best suggestion I could give is to be attentive. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted July 11, 2006 BTW, if you are thinking composite decking, beware. They are very new and there is very little known about them and the claims are not yet field proven for more than a few years. I have seen composite decking warp and buckle, extrude stains from inside and turn unfavorable colors. While these may be isolated incidences, better armed than vulnerable. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harley 14 Report post Posted July 11, 2006 Sorry to confuse you... yes Sealmaxx did complete the job on the tops but obviously couldn't do all six sides. I guess from reading the threads, I found that, not too many out there like the Sealmaxx concept. We'll see what happens at Mom and Dad’s and I will definitely let all of you know... this is a great site! I hope I can contribute one day as payback. Regarding our future deck, I’m trying to find out the best way to go. If I go composite, it seems I’ll just be asking for trouble. If I go cedar, its problematic, and treated has very high maintenance. Is Ipe the answer? Should I find a place that can ship it in? I haven’t found a place that carries it around here. I thought about the Sealmaxx idea… being done before I build and get all six sides taken care of (I know that cuts a lot of these guys out of the business) (sorry) but if it works, great! But if petrifying the wood isn’t such a good idea, then which way do we go? Just trying to get some opinions I guess. I love decks and our last house had a patio which was very low maintenance so I got a little spoiled. But even then I wanted a deck! Now that I have the opportunity, I want to do it right. Any help I can get would be appreciated. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Beth n Rod 1,279 Report post Posted July 11, 2006 PTP has it's benefits as do the other woods. It holds a sealer better than the harder woods do but requires maintenance every couple of years. Ipe' requires a penetrating oil and to keep it looking good, annual cleaning and treatment are required. Cedar can be used for the rails (spindles and such) but not recommended for the top cap of the rail. It is very soft and can be damaged with an unskilled pressure washer operator. Also, under regular use, the wood fibers can be easily damaged making it hard for most sealers to hold onto the substrate (the part just below the surface) leading to failure and the need for annual maintence including sanding. Regarding supply of Ipe', I would contact deck builders and find out what they can get. If this does not pan out, then look into the web for sources that can ship into your area but again beware of any deck builder who is not familiar to working with Ipe'. It requires an end sealer on each cut in order to avoid moisture loss which can lead to warping and cupping. Any of these woods would be great on a deck but used in coordinance with their capabilities. I have worked on some very beautiful decks that have been a combination of all 3. The substructure was built with pressure treated pine, the rails and lattice enclosure below comprised of cedar while the rail caps and floor were completed with Ipe'. Here is an example: http://www.seedirtrun.com/gallery/showphoto.php/photo/439/cat/503 Browse around and see what you like and hopefully this will help you on your way to a decision. Rod!~ Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Harley 14 Report post Posted July 11, 2006 Thanks a lot... I appreciate your time. Good luck out there Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tropical wave 22 Report post Posted July 16, 2006 My numbers are working just fine.... 847 376-0695 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
