Should I Or Should I Not?

[Jarrod 22]

I got a referral yesterday (amazing huh?) He has Sikkins Cetal (I think I spelled that right) on his deck. I HATE Sikkins, but I never stripped this version b4. Is it strippable or not? If yes, is it a PITA? If it's a PITA, forget it.

BTW, did I mention that I hate Sikkins?

[Celeste 341]

Sikkens Cetol DEK is a fairly tough finish to remove. We had one last year that we definitely earned our money on. HD-80 did do the job though. The bids we've lost this year have been on DEK removal because we price them substanially higher.

Celeste

[Jarrod 22]

Thanks Celest. How many times did you have to strip it? How long was the dwell time?

[Jarrod 22]

Thanks Celest. How many times did you have to strip it? How long was the dwell time?

I'm thinking $2 per sq. ft. to strip.

[Celeste 341]

I'm thinking we had a total of about an hour total dwell...may not have been as long if we weren't still learning about the patience thing last year and had done it right the first time around :) We still ended up sanding some places to get off remnants as well. Definitely a higher dollar strip job!

Celeste

[James 625]

I did a Suckkens removal 2 weeks ago on cedar. Ran two machines. 1200 sqft x 2 bucks with F18 max. I"ve used both strippers on Sick o's. I get less furring with F18. I x Jet"ed the deck first to clean off the dirt and mold then applied the stripper. I did 2 applications of 30 min's and it removed 90%.

[PressurePros 249]

From what you have told me about your customer base and your particular business model, I would say walk.

[plainpainter 217]

One potential customer told me that Sikkens is the best product out there. I figured at $60/gallon - that he had nothing better to do than spend money. The product he didn't like was a Ben Moore alkyd deck stain - that he said only looked good for a year and then failed. It seems that the heart and soul of deck restoration - at least from this site - is all about yearly maintenance, and a fairly easy product to strip. Where as customers are seeing it 180 degrees from us. They want products with the 5 year warranty, and when it starts getting crappy - it's really hard to strip.

Maybe the manufacturers are to blame? In their endless ad campaigns with their best and newest products with a so called longer warranty? With products advertizing 5 yrs, and now I think I saw 7 years somewhere. How do you convince potential customers of a product that will protect well for 12 months, and then will need to be stripped, brightened, and reapplied? I'm convinced it makes more sense for wood care. But how do you go against this constant bombardment from the manufacturers on wild claims of long life?

-Dan

[Jarrod 22]

From what you have told me about your customer base and your particular business model, I would say walk.

Ken, I have one shoe on and I am looking at the other one.

[Jarrod 22]

Dan, I hear you. The 7 year product is Olympic. It is acrylic based and will NOT last 7 years. Most educated customers know that nothing lasts 7 years on their decks. Besides, there are so many loopholes in that 7 year warranty.

Most good oils will last 18 to 24 months, unless the deck gets a lot of sun, or is near a pool, or belongs to a active family of 8 with 3 horse sized dogs.

They have been trying for years to overcome the maintenance issue.

1. Pressure treated - didn't work

2. Vinyl decks - What a joke!

3. Trex - Yeah right! We washed 4 NASTY ones this month!

4. Brick pavers. - We have restored thousands of sq. ft. this year too!

I know I left some more examples out, but I think I made my point.

Hell, if you stand outside long enough, you will need to be protected from something too.

If people can't afford to maintain their property (investment) then they need to sell it and move into an apartment!

[plainpainter 217]

Jarrod - I think you made an important point which most homeowners don't want to come to grips with. "If people can't afford to maintain their property (investment) then they need to sell it and move into an apartment!" I have come to properties with massive size decks - in the range of like 2000-3000 sq. feet, all mahogany and jacuzzi built in - with many twists and turns and balconies. And when I ask for like $5,000 - their jaws hit the floor. Obviously like you told me - these folks are house poor, and don't want to come to grips with reality. If you buy a $900,000 house with a 2,400 sq.ft deck - you're gonna have to shelve out big money to maintain it. Why so many homeowners living in a dream world?

-Dan

[RPetry 564]

Dan,

I've run into similar situations. Typically a 30 something married couple, no children, and both white collar professionals. Live in a McMansion without furniture.

Many in this area have played the trade up real estate game over the years and have acquired large homes with heavy mortgages. As long as the sellers market is strong and prices are rising, they sell and rebuy every few years. Profits are reinvested in a larger property.

What can be worrying is when the market cools off and interest rates increase. Kind of like the old game of musical chairs. One job loss and it is impossible to keep up the mortgage payments.

I also think many people have borrowed against the equity in their homes. Being property rich and cash poor is a dicey situation. Restoring their exterior wood is the least of their problems.

[plainpainter 217]

Rick - restoration indeed is the least of their worries. But why do these people call and waste my time? Do they think they will get lucky, and I will bill out $14/man-hour? Everytime I do the math, you pay someone like $17/hour. When you factor every cost to run your business and with a modest profit - it works out to at least $40/man-hour. Why do these people think I am going to break down for them? Especially when I see I will be

[PressurePros 249]

Dan,

I've run into similar situations. Typically a 30 something married couple, no children, and both white collar professionals. Live in a McMansion without furniture.

Many in this area have played the trade up real estate game over the years and have acquired large homes with heavy mortgages. As long as the sellers market is strong and prices are rising, they sell and rebuy every few years. Profits are reinvested in a larger property.

What can be worrying is when the market cools off and interest rates increase. Kind of like the old game of musical chairs. One job loss and it is impossible to keep up the mortgage payments.

I also think many people have borrowed against the equity in their homes. Being property rich and cash poor is a dicey situation. Restoring their exterior wood is the least of their problems.

Amen, Rick. You are dead on. I am on 2000 s/f decks and I look in the window and see Ikea furniture.

[Richard 17]

You are just staining a deck. How hard can that be. I'd do it myself, but I don't have time.You want how much? Some will see the benefits of a proffesional service,and some won't. I know myself, that every once in a while I get a little surprised at how much things cost.

[Anthony G 14]

Heck.....I wish that I could get that kind of money around here. You go out and price a house wash at $*** for a $125K house and people will look at you like you are crazy....much less pricing a deck. I think a lot of these people are the house poor kind of people.

[Richard 17]

Anthony

What is the bulk of your work if it's not houses and decks?

[Anthony G 14]

I work a full time job and have been doing some washing on the side for the last seven years......the best work comes from a local lake where some of the people have second homes....they dont seem to mind the extra expense to maintain them. Just making a comment about some of the house rich...money poor.

I would like to start doing the roof cleaning around here....bunch of people need it done.

[Richard 17]

I've been finding that alot of people didn't even know you could do it. It seems that they just need to be informed. Heck, it wasn't all that long ago that I found out.

[Anthony G 14]

Richard, I sent you an email through this site

[RPetry 564]

Dan,

But why do these people call and waste my time?

In most cases, I do not think anyone on purpose would waste your or my time. At least in my area, time is at a premium. Between jobs, kids, and the myrad of other things in life, a lot of people are just frantic.

If it is not a direct referral, I kind of prescreen my calls. If it sounds like a shopper, I generally suggest a handyman might better fit their needs. If the potential customer is at least somewhat serious about their wood, I will come out to do an estimate but only if someone is there.

No hard sell sales pitch, no nonsense. Patiently explain what we do and why, the products we use, and what to expect. Show pics of before and after jobs. Write up a preliminary cost estimate, discuss it with the customer, and email a contract and cover letter within a few days.

Seems to work for me. Two thirds of my in person estimates are closed. But I'm in a good area with more disposable income than time, so that makes a difference.

Wood only is a tough business. It takes at least 5 yrs. to build up a reputation and a client base.

[Jarrod 22]

Well, I passed. The deck was 10 feet from the pool and they just opened it a week ago. She was one of those snooty people too. I told her that the stain was going to be difficult to remove and that overspray was going to get in her pool. The reason that I mentioned the level of difficulty of the job was twofold - 1. To justify my price 2. So they wouldn't expect miracles. On these types of jobs, you can't come off like "Your deck will look PERFECT, SPOTLESS & BRAND NEW! I WILL GET 100% OF THIS JUNK OFF OF YOUR DECK FOR SURE!" I know better!

Oh well, I didn't need the stress anyway. She seemed like a real female dog.

[plainpainter 217]

Wouldn't it be funny if some people could never get anyone to work for them?

Just so they would realize how much of an a-hole they were, I mean it's a free society right? There's no law saying you must be able to get people to do work for you, right? If only there was a website where contractors could come together and talk about their customers - so we'd all know who the problematic customers were.

-Dan

[Jarrod 22]

Us local guys tell each other. We have a "list" at one of our suppliers, and we check it. There's only a few of us good contractors in the area and we shop at the same store. If we see a name on the list we do not do the job, now they are stuck with a lowballer!