Hiring Illegals

[Jeff 232]

In our area, there have always been hispanic communities here. I have seen for the basis of example, landscaping crews become predominantly hispanic and the caucasian workers have basically vanished.

We can all speculate as to why this has happened but I know it is not because of the cheap wages. Many of them are earning $8-10/hour which is pretty darn good considering they are only riding a mower or toting a grass cutter etc.

Heck, if you want to see if any of them are illegal, go run by there and shout out "INS, INS, INS"

I bet that you will not see anyone running. Our area is pretty strict on payroll auditing and assure that all paperwork is in order. We have gone through it ourselves. We passed.

Rod!~

You think $8.00 - $10.00 is a good wage, with the cost of living up in your area. Thats below poverty level i would think. Just because he drives a lawn mower, doesnt mean he shouldnt earn a living wage. He still could get hurt or die on the job, its hard work landscaping. One trip to the hospital for illness and he might have no money to feed his family with those wages as a norm

You are right spanish families are great, they do have a large sense of family and they assimilate into our country.

Also some of the biggest and most dealiest GANGS in our country and taking up a great deal of our prison space are Mexican gangs/spanish gangs

To who ever comes to this country and wants to be part of the leagal american dream, good for them as long as its legal. I think they should get good wages too $8-$10 no wonder you have a hard time keeping workers if you think thats a good wage

I'm dropping out of this debate, I'm boringggggg myself and sound to much like a racist.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Jeff,

We didn't say we pay that rate. We said we have heard others pay that rate. We pay substantially more.

Beth

[FCPWLLC 233]

Jeff is right.... $8-$10/hr is not even close to actually making a decent living. Not even considering taxes removed, $400/week is just $20,800/yr.

Most any budget planner will tell you not to spend more than a 1/4 of gross on your mortgage payments. This leaves these people with trying to find a good home in a good area with a $60k home budget. So much for american dream when you can't afford it. Not much room there for future investing or vacations.

They did a study not long ago here in Lexington and figured a minimum of $11/hr was needed just to get by. Do people that do manual labor not deserve a good home or a dependable car? A good retirement? These are the very reasons that the immigrants come here. Sad thing is that they get taken advantage of due to thier illegal status and get paid less than a good wage. They accept it because it is great money when it is sent back home. They accept it because of thier legal status. So now when a legal American wants a job, he has to deal with trying to find one that actually pays his bills.

Doesn't make much sense to go out and work 40 hours real hard only to find that you still can't pay your rent/mortgage. Might as well not work. Either way the bill couldn't be paid. Only winner in working all week for what essentially is NOTHING, is the employer makes large off your aching back.

Americans don't really prefer the management position, but rather prefer the management wages.

Some think I am crazy because we pay the gals, that work for us in our cleaning biz, $14/hr. But we still make it work. We still show decent profit and have very dependable employees. Am I a softy because I don't want to pay someone less than a living wage? Maybe. But I sleep good at night knowing that they are also sleeping in a warm home and thier kids have presents under the Christmas Tree.

Then again, I am fairly negative on issues like this. I feel that if I were offered a wage less than living, I'd feel as if my face were spit in.

[Jeff 232]

Jeff is right.... $8-$10/hr is not even close to actually making a decent living. Not even considering taxes removed, $400/week is just $20,800/yr.

Most any budget planner will tell you not to spend more than a 1/4 of gross on your mortgage payments. This leaves these people with trying to find a good home in a good area with a $60k home budget. So much for american dream when you can't afford it. Not much room there for future investing or vacations.

They did a study not long ago here in Lexington and figured a minimum of $11/hr was needed just to get by. Do people that do manual labor not deserve a good home or a dependable car? A good retirement? These are the very reasons that the immigrants come here. Sad thing is that they get taken advantage of due to thier illegal status and get paid less than a good wage. They accept it because it is great money when it is sent back home. They accept it because of thier legal status. So now when a legal American wants a job, he has to deal with trying to find one that actually pays his bills.

Doesn't make much sense to go out and work 40 hours real hard only to find that you still can't pay your rent/mortgage. Might as well not work. Either way the bill couldn't be paid. Only winner in working all week for what essentially is NOTHING, is the employer makes large off your aching back.

Americans don't really prefer the management position, but rather prefer the management wages.

Some think I am crazy because we pay the gals, that work for us in our cleaning biz, $14/hr. But we still make it work. We still show decent profit and have very dependable employees. Am I a softy because I don't want to pay someone less than a living wage? Maybe. But I sleep good at night knowing that they are also sleeping in a warm home and thier kids have presents under the Christmas Tree.

Then again, I am fairly negative on issues like this. I feel that if I were offered a wage less than living, I'd feel as if my face were spit in.

Good for you and everybody that see's people need a living wage. I too sleep well knowing my men get more $$$ than most around here. I also have some very loyal workers. I am and will be paying them more and more often as my biz grow. Maybe Im being selfish, I figure the more they make, it will be harder for them to leave for something better. BUT, What could be better than working for a wondrful guy like me LOL

oops

[Jeff 232]

Jeff,

We didn't say we pay that rate. We said we have heard others pay that rate. We pay substantially more.

Beth

Beth, I was sure you paid more than that.

I just was saying $8-$10 isnt what many think it is. I used to get paid that kind of money in the late 70's & early 80's for labor work.

I guess its from my days in the union, as a biz owner I still feel the worker is the most important part of a biz and our country. Blue Collar , Just like red white & BLUE

[RyanH 14]

Not to sound like a mean spirited conservative or anything, but when did we develop the idea that we should make enough in 40 man hours to support a family and have a nice home / car / etc? It's a simple equation: if you can't make enough money at $8 - $10 per hour, you may just have to work more hours. Or get a roomate. Or husband / wife / gay lover both work. Implement the FairTax and obliterate the magnanimous waste that is our IRS and it's HUGE cost to our federal deficit and return that money back to the tax payers who pay for it. Eh all that aside....

As for why it's profitable to hire illegals...it's all about supply and demand. In my phone book there are dozens and dozens of landscaping companies. For most white-collar workers, it is more effective for them to hire someone else to do work like this than to invest the time and money to learn and do it themselves. But, one reason they became wealthy is by not throwing money away. Thus, they will go with the best valued service, which in a market where all service is comparable in quality, is the cheapest service. If someone offers me the same service for 20% less cost and I don't ask why it's so cheap, I'm just promised the same service, then that's where I'll go (well, not me PERSONALLY, but folks in general).

America has become a disposable society and we want everything to be easy and cheap. We've becomed accustomed to the $0.99 menu at Wendy's and would balk if it ever rose to $1.10, even 5 years after it was implemented. I can't remember the last time a fast food menu has changed in price (except for maybe Taco Bell). Yet other costs have increased...fuel, raw food material costs, taxes (local property definitely), etc. Businesses are either taking a hit on their profits or are just selling more product, either way they haven't kept up with market conditions of inflation. It's because Americans will storm out at the slightest hint of a price increase and go to a competitor. And if businesses don't raise costs, they can't raise wages.

Look at how many people will shop at Rooms to Go or some similar for cheap furniture that is made in China (or Handcrafted in Asia as some stores are now craftily selling it). We have a store nearby that sells handmade sofas made locally by craftsmen...these things retail for around $1500 and carry a lifetime warranty. A similar unit sans warranty would go for about $499 at a Rooms2Go location. Again, Americans shun the more expensive place with a "how dare you charge me that much" attitude and go for the cheap furnitre, figuring they'll get a new one once the financing period has run out anyway. Remember: disposable.

We can blame American consumers as a large reason American business is as it is. Businesses as a core have one goal: large profits. EVERY business owner here does it. Even if you tout your higher wages for employees as a humanitarian display of virtue, you are really doing it because you recognize that you can retain that talent and in the long run it will make you more money. There is no conspiracy to pull anything over our eyes or to change our country. It is our drive for cheap commercial goods and services that push businesses to find new and innovative ideas to meet our demands. Manufactured goods are 2/3 labor cost and 1/3 material cost (roughly). So the next time some fat blooded American says "they took my jorb" you can say "quit being so damned cheap and start supporting American commerce!" because until we stop demanding cheap goods, we won't stop getting imported goods / labor.

[Jeff 232]

Not to sound like a mean spirited conservative or anything, but when did we develop the idea that we should make enough in 40 man hours to support a family and have a nice home / car / etc? It's a simple equation: if you can't make enough money at $8 - $10 per hour, you may just have to work more hours. Or get a roomate. Or husband / wife / gay lover both work. Implement the FairTax and obliterate the magnanimous waste that is our IRS and it's HUGE cost to our federal deficit and return that money back to the tax payers who pay for it. Eh all that aside....

As for why it's profitable to hire illegals...it's all about supply and demand. In my phone book there are dozens and dozens of landscaping companies. For most white-collar workers, it is more effective for them to hire someone else to do work like this than to invest the time and money to learn and do it themselves. But, one reason they became wealthy is by not throwing money away. Thus, they will go with the best valued service, which in a market where all service is comparable in quality, is the cheapest service. If someone offers me the same service for 20% less cost and I don't ask why it's so cheap, I'm just promised the same service, then that's where I'll go (well, not me PERSONALLY, but folks in general).

America has become a disposable society and we want everything to be easy and cheap. We've becomed accustomed to the $0.99 menu at Wendy's and would balk if it ever rose to $1.10, even 5 years after it was implemented. I can't remember the last time a fast food menu has changed in price (except for maybe Taco Bell). Yet other costs have increased...fuel, raw food material costs, taxes (local property definitely), etc. Businesses are either taking a hit on their profits or are just selling more product, either way they haven't kept up with market conditions of inflation. It's because Americans will storm out at the slightest hint of a price increase and go to a competitor. And if businesses don't raise costs, they can't raise wages.

Look at how many people will shop at Rooms to Go or some similar for cheap furniture that is made in China (or Handcrafted in Asia as some stores are now craftily selling it). We have a store nearby that sells handmade sofas made locally by craftsmen...these things retail for around $1500 and carry a lifetime warranty. A similar unit sans warranty would go for about $499 at a Rooms2Go location. Again, Americans shun the more expensive place with a "how dare you charge me that much" attitude and go for the cheap furnitre, figuring they'll get a new one once the financing period has run out anyway. Remember: disposable.

We can blame American consumers as a large reason American business is as it is. Businesses as a core have one goal: large profits. EVERY business owner here does it. Even if you tout your higher wages for employees as a humanitarian display of virtue, you are really doing it because you recognize that you can retain that talent and in the long run it will make you more money. There is no conspiracy to pull anything over our eyes or to change our country. It is our drive for cheap commercial goods and services that push businesses to find new and innovative ideas to meet our demands. Manufactured goods are 2/3 labor cost and 1/3 material cost (roughly). So the next time some fat blooded American says "they took my jorb" you can say "quit being so damned cheap and start supporting American commerce!" because until we stop demanding cheap goods, we won't stop getting imported goods / labor.

Have you noticed the Wendy's $.99 Biggie soda isnt so big anymore

[squirtgun 122]

We can blame American consumers as a large reason American business is as it is. Businesses as a core have one goal: large profits. EVERY business owner here does it. Even if you tout your higher wages for employees as a humanitarian display of virtue, you are really doing it because you recognize that you can retain that talent and in the long run it will make you more money. There is no conspiracy to pull anything over our eyes or to change our country. It is our drive for cheap commercial goods and services that push businesses to find new and innovative ideas to meet our demands. Manufactured goods are 2/3 labor cost and 1/3 material cost (roughly). So the next time some fat blooded American says "they took my jorb" you can say "quit being so damned cheap and start supporting American commerce!" because until we stop demanding cheap goods, we won't stop getting imported goods / labor.

Walmart is the culprit.The mentality they project upon businesses they deal with has spread to consumers like a virus.

[FCPWLLC 233]

Not to sound like a mean spirited conservative or anything, but when did we develop the idea that we should make enough in 40 man hours to support a family and have a nice home / car / etc?

The same time you and I started our own businesses.

It's a simple equation: if you can't make enough money at $8 - $10 per hour, you may just have to work more hours.

There is still only 24 hours in a day.

Or get a roomate. Or husband / wife / gay lover both work.

Or start a Business and invest.

Implement the FairTax and obliterate the magnanimous waste that is our IRS and it's HUGE cost to our federal deficit and return that money back to the tax payers who pay for it. Eh all that aside....

We can all hope LOL

Yes, I do make good money while paying my employees well.

[RyanH 14]

Michael...

You missed my point. I aim to tear down this concept of "entitlement." Nobody is entitled to anything but the opportunity to start from zero and go wherever their dedication takes them. Some do it, and some complain about it being too difficult. The day I realized that I needed more than $3 per hour doing lawn work around the neighborhood, I moved up to washing cars at $10 per pop. When I learned that doing this 2 or 3 times per week didn't give me the income I desired, I got a job for minimum wage but had more hours to work. When I realized I couldn't get by on $5 per hour, I found a place that paid $7 and proved myself. Then on to $12 per hour doing lab crap then to $40 cleaning bathrooms and kitchens and then to $90 by pressure washing. Then I moved to something else making less but enjoyed more. Everytime I required more money or opportunity, I found new and different ways to make it. But there were times when I needed more income than any of those would provide and I worked 3 jobs at any given time until I was 26. Nowhere is it stated that you 66% of your day should be free to do whatever and 2 out of 7 days in teh week should be free. The only truth in our lives is that we do with it what we will. When our desires outweigh our abilities to pay for them, then we should either rethink our goals or our methods of getting there. We are not entitled to niceties or wealth or anything else. Don't defend those who aren't making more than $10 per hour; we are all in positions in our lives because of the sum of choices we've made. I've tried to help others and offer advice on how to better themselves. So far, nobody wants to make the difficult choices it takes to resituate themselves in life, and they continue to despair and complain.

Now I need to re-evaluate my path for getting my porch complete and quit wasting time on the internet. Pics to come soon!

[Thad 135]

Ryan, you got me all fired up and I jumped up and starting yelling, "Hell YEAH!" and scared the wife, kids, and dogs half to death.

:)