English/Spanish

[Jeff 232]

OK let the debate begin!!!!!!!!!

Whats up and why is everything that you see turning to 2 languages.

I as the racist I must be, can't stand the fact that everywhere you go its English & spanish signs, notices etc etc

I go to the ATM I have to hit a button that says english. I really hate how Lowes & HD now have everything in english & spanish. I cant stand when I go to read a box of diapers or must products at a supermarket, I have to look for the english side of the package. I hate that I went in a new little neighborhood mexican restaurant and the whole menu was in spanish, NO english at all. I hate when i go to Walmart and other places I hear more spanish being spoken.

The list goes on and on

Why is this, theres no othe immigrant groups over time that had their language posted on everything

I feel if you come to this country to live & work you should make every effort possible to learn, read & write the english language. I think why I get so pissed is years ago I worked with many spanish people and all of them, I think were legal and they all knew how to speak & write english real well. But now we have sooooooooooo many illegals here they dont even try to learn the language at all or much

Lowes down the road from me started doing announcements in both english & spanish. It lasted about 2 weeks and they got so many complaints from Racist customers and the workers that they went back to only english announcements... Yay give one to the Americans

I think if you live and work and go to school learn the language and thats it. America love it or leave it and respect it by reading & writing it

Just my opinion

Jeff

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

If you look at Europe, they speak many languages. Personally I think it is enriching to speak another language. I speak some Spanish (2 years), and enough Italian to order a meal, find a bathroom or get to the airport.

Beth

[Celeste 341]

If you look at Europe, they speak many languages. Personally I think it is enriching to speak another language. I speak some Spanish (2 years), and enough Italian to order a meal, find a bathroom or get to the airport.

Beth

Second language knowledge is nice - the schools have been teaching basics for YEARS...the point is, you should not have to know another language to be in your own neighborhood in America.

[Thad 135]

When my great Grandpa came over here from Germany he learned English as quickly as possible and only taught his children English- the language of the country he had immigrated to.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Our country, their country...the whole separatist attitude is what is keeping us from all being friends. Learning a new language is a way to bring down the borders. Some want the borders to stay firm and not be bothered with others. Your choice. But those who see things this way are fast becoming the minority. There is a great deal to learn from other cultures and it cannot be done by shutting them out. Learning another language is an opportunity to understand another culture from their way of communicating.

No one in the U.S. has to learn another language to be in their own neighborhood. English is the primary language. Some people fear change especially when those changes may impinge upon them in ways they were not prepared to deal with and this is the beginnings of fear. Not being able to control everything in ones own life. The growing second language influence is one example. Yet, it is upon us and we can either embrace it or fight it. One of these options is a losing battle because those who bring the second language influence are to well established.

Our laws allow for the immigration of people from other countries and those cultures are very large and well established here in the U.S.

Jeff stated many cases in which he is bothered by the strength of the second languages influence on labeling and adaptations to accommodate them in many areas. These are the signs of his fear. He has no desire to learn another language and feeling impinged upon he has become threatened by it because his homeland is changing and he sees it's inevitability. That is scary for many and I can relate. How we deal with our fears is unique to all who have many challenges in addition to them. One can face them and conquer them or be ruled by them and create what comes from fear. Depression, anxiety, resentment, anger, hate...

I would rather face it and learn the second language and learn about the people who bring it. I can have more friends that way. Enemies are easy to make, friends take effort.

Rod!~

[Deck Guy 14]

It really doesn't bother me, although I do believe all immigrants should be teaching their children our language and assimilating them into our culture. I do think it is possible to learn our culture while still respecting their own. Their children will have better opportunities if they understand how to communicate in our language.

As far as packaging goes, it also allows them to sell the product in Spanish speaking areas of the world without having to change the manufacturing process. Alot of electronics have Spanish, English, and French on the packaging and instructions for that reason.

I lived in Germany as a kid (my mom is from Essen), so I speak English, some German, and of course...the language of love, baby!!:lgbounces

[Celeste 341]

I'm not saying that we should't learn other languages....I used to be fluent in French, started learning Japanese while living in Okinawa (where by the way I taught ESL), my kids were taught spanish in school.

I think what a lot of this boils down to is that WE Americans are making all of the effort and concessions....we are learning their languages, we are re-packaging, we are footing the bills for the illegals....at some point why don't WE as a country just put our foot down and tell them, come on over BUT do it legally and learn to communicate in a language that yours HOSTS are comfortable with!!!!!!

Celeste

[JohnW 14]

Our country, their country...the whole separatist attitude is what is keeping us from all being friends. Learning a new language is a way to bring down the borders. Some want the borders to stay firm and not be bothered with others. Your choice. But those who see things this way are fast becoming the minority. There is a great deal to learn from other cultures and it cannot be done by shutting them out. Learning another language is an opportunity to understand another culture from their way of communicating.

I don't think it's a matter of a separatist attitude. I believe it's the fact that our forfathers fought hard to give us what we have today. We have a wave of illegals crossing the border that don't just include Mexicans, but anyone who wants to enter this country without going thru the legalities of doing so. Those who don't go about gaining citizenship correctly have everything to gain and we the citizens of this country have everything to lose. I don't believe we are shutting them out, we just want them to do it the right way. On the other hand, I've kept my Spanish up since high school and I have found it to be somewhat useful in certain times.

[Jon 533]

Before I speak my mind think about this, every country in the world that I am aware of REQUIRES English as a second language but here in the USA you only need to learn a second language if you plan to go to a University. Does that make sense?

Now as for other languages, here is what I have been years, long before I was ever in the PW business.

You can speak any language you want at HOME but in public speak ENGLISH.

Why are we catering to all those that demand we print things in their language, hire people to translate to their language etc.

I can't speak for other states but when living in CA the ballots must have been printed in a dozen different languages and that is very costly.

here in NM English is the 2nd language, Spanish rules, wonder why, also they think it is perfectly legal for the illegals to vote here regardless of what you read. When Remy and I went to register to vote we were asked to bring proof of being American, when we were there I saw a few speaking Spanish and nothing was asked of them, go figure.

My biggest gripe and partly because of my deafness is those stupid automated phone systems, push 1 of English, 2 for Spanish. Get rid of that stuff and speak English period.

Now here in NM it is in many cases the other way around, push 1 for Spanish, 2 for English, that blows my mind and speaks loudly where English stands as a language.

When in America do as the Americans do, SPEAK ENGLISH.

If you don't like it get the hell out of our country.

Enough from me, stepping off the stump so another can step up and speak his or her mind.

Jon

[Celeste 341]

The biggest question that is coming to mind now is.......where is it going to stop. With the Japanese buying up every company in our country.....what's going to happen when they all come over - will we then have to learn Japanese??? Probably a bad example because the Japanese are so far ahead in their education - but go to other countries and English IS taught. Are our illegals coming mostly from "3rd" worlds where education is lax or non-existent? If this is so, why again, do we have to foot the bill?

I for one get VERY discouraged when I go to my kids' school awards programs and the majority of the awards are given to the hispanics because not only are they in the 3rd grade (barely) but they've also done something about learning the language in MY english speaking country. What message is being sent to my 3rd grader? Do your best, get the best grades in class and still not be recognized because some kid in your class read a 1st grade book!

Stump is free again!

Celeste

[Jeff 232]

I am afraid......... of our country turning into something it was not meant to be.......Which is a country that speaks another language. This is America and our language should be spoken. I'm sure that our forefathers had that in mind and its been that way for over 200 years, except this past decade

I love culture, I have no problem with how it was done years ago, you spoke your language only until you learned english.

Why would anybody want America to have 2 different spoken language, THAT DOES NOT UNITE people, it divides our country. Another thing is if you want to open our borders, what do you think will happen, the majority will speak and elect there kind and we Americans will be paying for it sooner than later

This is America and do like its been done for over 200 years learn english and become a part of the American Dream

It has nothing to do with shutting a culture out, whos doing the shutting out is it us or the people and the companies that think its fine to just speak spanish. Your wrong on this one Rod, this is America not a spanish country

[JFife 14]

No one in the U.S. has to learn another language to be in their own neighborhood. English is the primary language. Some people fear change especially when those changes may impinge upon them in ways they were not prepared to deal with and this is the beginnings of fear. Not being able to control everything in ones own life. The growing second language influence is one example. Yet, it is upon us and we can either embrace it or fight it. One of these options is a losing battle because those who bring the second language influence are to well established.

Our laws allow for the immigration of people from other countries and those cultures are very large and well established here in the U.S.

Jeff stated many cases in which he is bothered by the strength of the second languages influence on labeling and adaptations to accommodate them in many areas. These are the signs of his fear. He has no desire to learn another language and feeling impinged upon he has become threatened by it because his homeland is changing and he sees it's inevitability. That is scary for many and I can relate. How we deal with our fears is unique to all who have many challenges in addition to them. One can face them and conquer them or be ruled by them and create what comes from fear. Depression, anxiety, resentment, anger, hate...

I would rather face it and learn the second language and learn about the people who bring it. I can have more friends that way. Enemies are easy to make, friends take effort.

Rod!~

I don't know that the psycho-analysis field is ready for you just yet, Rod. Stating Jeff is fearful due to the fact he doesn't like being hassled by not being able to find the English instructions on something is laughable. Rather, I say you are fearful of possibly stepping on a toe, or hurting a feeling, so you float freely with an "anything goes" attitude, accepting of everything. If you never confront or object to anything, you won't have many enemies (a la France). That's fear--when you do nothing but straddle fences. To me, this isn't a big deal. I like the other languages....easier to tune out. But--just like with employees--subordinates must quickly learn their place, and know what will and will not be accepted, and is expected---or else the next thing might not be so small. Like I said, to me language is no big deal. Don't notice it. But what if we had an influx of Middle Eastern immigrants where the men are used to hiking up their moo-moo's in the middle of the road and taking a crap in the middle of the street?? Will we cordially accept this culture? Or a middle eastern guy slaps his wife around a little---against our laws, yes, but accepted and customary for him in his culture?? He's your new friend Rod!!:)

[Jon 533]

Is it not stated that English is the OFFICIAL language of the USA?

Then why in hell are all the cities, counties, states and worst the Feds even publishing, speaking and offiering FREE things to those that NO SPEAKY ENGLISH?

If you want to live here then you damn well better speak to me in understandable English.

Now try this for size, why is not NOT ILLEGAL to outsource to India for penny's an hour? Your medical records, you bank records, your personal information you provide many businesses and government agencies is all available in India.

Talk about better security after 9-11, yeah right, just give all my personal information to some foreign country we truly know little about. I often wonder how much of that is sold to others?

Anyone brave enough to give me your Social Security number and wait a few hours for me to call you and tell you your life history? ever had STD, can find it, ever had a child out of wedlock, I can find it, parents adopt you, I can find that too, in fact nothing I could not find on the Internet with your SS number.

Celeste I totally agree with you on how born in America kids are considered second place when they speak English.

This country has done a major flip flop on it's own people.

So Beth for PRESIDENT, CELESTE for VP. Their hubbies can carry the luggage for them.

[Barry M 73]

I live in a town that has the second highest Mexican population in the state. This is not something I dwell on but I don't agree with so many illegals living here. Because of the Lowes, Home Depots, and Walmarts bending over backwards for them, they will never have to learn English. Once again these fortune 500 companies don't care about the consequences of their actions, they only care about the money. I don't like the fact they work for nothing and take our jobs and then send our money back home to their families. Our crime is up and property values are down and the little wannabe gangsters graffitied the back of my shed. If I wanted to enlighten myself by learning about their culture I would go to Mexico, they don't belong here!!

Rod

If you had ever layed in bed all night not able to sleep because you can here the La Bamba music playing at the Fiesta down the street you wouldn't want to learn chit about their culture.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

I live in a town that has the second highest Mexican population in the state. This is not something I dwell on but I don't agree with so many illegals living here. Because of the Lowes, Home Depots, and Walmarts bending over backwards for them, they will never have to learn English. Once again these fortune 500 companies don't care about the consequences of their actions, they only care about the money. I don't like the fact they work for nothing and take our jobs and then send our money back home to their families. Our crime is up and property values are down and the little wannabe gangsters graffitied the back of my shed. If I wanted to enlighten myself by learning about their culture I would go to Mexico, they don't belong here!!

Rod

If you had ever layed in bed all night not able to sleep because you can here the La Bamba music playing at the Fiesta down the street you wouldn't want to learn chit about their culture.

Wow...you must be 100% American Indian, because most of us came from another country at some point way back when.

Beth

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Ok guys, here it is. I was born and raised in Tucson AZ. where the language and population was becoming predominantly spanish yet I spoke english because that is what was publicly expected. I had to listen to Mariachi music each and every nite because of the band that played at a bar which we lived directly next door to. Guess what, I didn't lose any sleep. I slept through it all the time. I have a background of many races in my blood and so I guess I am a mutt. But my approach is simply this; I am no better than any other race and they are no better than me.

No Jon Fife, I don't dance around things with an anything goes attitude but I do have a different way of looking at things than you do and that should not be something to admonish but to be respected. Perhaps someone could benefit from another point of view. You are right, I don't want my toes stepped on so here I practice the golden rule. Respect for others comes first. I accept people for what they are, not what I want them to be. They were not put here to benefit me, and neither was I for them.

btw, Jeff admitted he was scared, particularly on the encroachment of another race upon his ideals, so my analytical abilities are on target. We just don't agree on how to deal with it. Our forefathers new that this nation would become one of many nations so they instilled the primary point "All men are created equal" into the declaration of independence. Our language is and always will be the primary one, but we cannot stop people from using their language just because they came here.

Fear comes not knowing how to deal with what is presented or the lack of will, guts, testicular fortitude etc... to over come it. I confront and overcome much more than you would have any knowledge of to give me credit for, and as far as objections, I would have thought you knew better than that by now. I get pretty vocal when I object to things and past events not withstanding will vouch for it. I just don't go headlong into making statements I can't back up. I took pshycology and use that as the basis for my interpretations.

Yes, there are people whose culture does things that are atrocious but that is our judgment of them by our standards again. No, I don't think it is right, but if they tolerate it amongst themselves, who are we to tell them different? Until they decide to change, we cannot force them to nor should we expect them to because they live here. They must abide by our laws and they do. We don't allow them to tell us what we should be doing but we find a middle ground and a way to keep the peace and get along. That person may be a new friend but it is better than having them as an enemy don't you think? Who knows what they are capable of in that way. At least I try to make a friend and not condemn them for having ways that I don't understand. Judgment is the noose around the neck of humanity with our tendency to pass judgment upon each other. When you judge someone, you stop being open minded and miss any of the other clues that may help one to understand better than one would otherwise. It's probably the best thing you may understand as psycho-analysis but it is also a way to understanding human nature and what we are doing wrong.

I think for the most part, many are over reacting to this and have jumped to a conclusion that is not healthy. We all live here and we should be setting the example of how to conduct ourselves. Learning a second language can facilitate that by communicating with them to help them adapt.

When going to another country with family, will you drop the english language just because of it? Of course not, but in order to speak with the locals, you have to talk to them in the language they understand. I don't hesitate to be controversial and lead the way with a different point of view or way of approaching things. I don't just blend in. I stand out and I have no fear in doing so. Enough about me.

Here is the opportunity! Learn to communicate with as many people as you can on their level and increase your business' outreach and client base.

Rod!~

[RyanH 14]

Damned Whitey's marched my ancestors halfway across the country on the Trail of Tears many years ago. I guess my ancestors adapted and learned their language. When conquerors move in to conquer, the conquered must learn to speak the new language. I believe there is a thought and concerted effort for Mexicans to move into and become a dominant force in our country. They demonstrated this a few months back with the work "outage" in which they protested and didn't work (they should have all be fired same as anyone else). I for one hate that our culture is "bowing down" to this invasion and making it easier, but I also recognize that in a market economy, they are doing the "right thing." If there is a huge economic force out there with disposable income (regardless of the source), then as a business you want to be the first one on the block to offer a service to accomodate that market. Personally, I've stopped supporting certain stores that have gone this route (ala Walmart). In the (2nd) new Walmart being built in my town, the entrances and contractors signs are all in spanish (with some english sprinkled in at the bottom of the signs for good measure). If I didn't have the experience of being a foreigner working in foreign countries over the past 2 years, I might get "offended" by this, but I've been in countries where they've accomodated Americans who don't know foreign languages. I got by in central and south america with the spanish I know, and I got around germany okay. But when I go to china I won't have a friggin clue! Then I'll be glad for the co-english signs. And I've driven in those countries too, so you don't need to speak the language to have a driving permit.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

No says you must speak/read Spanish. Everything is still in English. No reason for that to bother anyone. The rest (90%) of the world is taught English in their schools. I am glad when I visit other countries. It is hospitable.

As for Lowe's/HD. I am sure it is because they purchase enough products to earn the right to have their language.

[Jeff 232]

Wow...you must be 100% American Indian, because most of us came from another country at some point way back when.

Beth

And every culture that came here for the past 2 centuries has learned our language and became part of the english speaking population.

Little Italy in Boston, everyone spoke english, The German area, spoke English, we didnt teach Italian & German in the schools, If we dont insist on learing our ways, our ways will eventually be gone

HELL The American Indian speaks ENGLISH

[Jeff 232]

If a race of people come here and really have no desire and NO NEED to blend into our country why should they. Theres a flood gate of spanish coming into this country, there WAS reasons we had limits on immigration #'s

IF THERE IS NO NEED to learn our ways and our language, eventually with the number of spanish coming here, WE, ALL of us will no longer have our ways and our language.

I know I'm sounding racist to some. But I see no real good coming from letting every illegal mexican into this country and then saying you dont have to learn any English we will put signs up in spanish, so you dont have to learn, we will look the other way when you come here Illegally, so you dont have to go by the immigration laws. We will look the other way when you have false documents and you want a job, we will look the other way when you cash your check.

Wait until the mexicans get heavy into pressure washing or wood restoration and we start to lose work and our livelihood. Do you think they are going to charge the same rates you all do, no they will cut the rates, you say they wont do as good as you quality wise, they are as smart as us, they will learn. They dont have to charge the same rates, they can afford to low ball us right out of business, Because there cost of living is less than ours, they live 2, 3, 4 famlies in one trailer home

Rod i said I was scared to see our way of life changing, I m more mad that our Goverment has no intentions to help the middle class blue collar worker from being ridden right over and all the jobs are given to illegals who dont even know how to speak the language of the land

Maybe we can have a spanish/american war someday Oh we already are

CAN I ASK WHY SHOULDNT PEOPLE LEARN OUR LANGUAGE & OUR WAYS, whats wrong with that?

I got a better idea, NUKE Mexico, The Middle East, Somolia, Russia LOL only kidding, that wouldnt be the right thing to do................ We'd get to much nuke fallout and who would we have to clean up the mess if we wiped out mexico LOL

I hope my democratic party doesnt kick me out

[squirtgun 122]

When my grand-father immigrated here from Finland in the early 1900's he came through Ellis Island.To become a citizen he had to renounce his citizenship to Finland,learn english,learn US histoy etc.

He was a proud American until his death in 1958.

This is how it should still be!!!!

[yazbird8 17]

Scott,

You nailed it in 50 words or less (actually 52 words)........You nailed it exactly to my way of thinking !!!

Stephen Andrews

Power washing

Home & Property

Care & Maintainence

[Jeff 232]

When my grand-father immigrated here from Finland in the early 1900's he came through Ellis Island.To become a citizen he had to renounce his citizenship to Finland,learn english,learn US histoy etc.

He was a proud American until his death in 1958.

This is how it should still be!!!!

You said and in a lot less words. Thank you

Thats all I'm trying to say, be the American dream , which is loving and learning its ways

[Jon 533]

Scott said it all, my grandparents came from Russia, Germany and Hungry and they went though Ellis Island also, I know my last name is true but on my mothers side they were told to shorten it to sound more American and my mother told me the story for years and the last name, I only wish I had written it down as she is long gone now as all others of her generation are.

I am outspoken on things but why must we be forced to pay higher taxes, hire special teachers and provide English/Spanish for just one group of people who refuse to learn English yet demand we give them citizenship because they are here illegally?

Racist I am not but anyone, any nationality here illegally needs to be shipped back where they came from and apply and wait the years it takes to come here legally. In the meantime they can or should learn English so when they are allowed to come here they know our language.

Oh by the way, seeing I am mixed Russian, German, Hungarian does that make me a Commie?

There is so many ways this thread could go if we wanted to keep it going, Banks allow the illegals to have accounts, to send money out of the country too, drivers licenses are a piece of cake, walk in, say I don't have no birth cert but my name is such and such and I was born in - - - - and you got a license.

They say it is illegal to hire them, why not start with the first person they come in contact with, the person who is going to rent them a place to live? make that illegal too, and no cars, bank accounts, drivers licenses, no jobs, no free education and medical, no baby born here becomes American etc.

Build a fence so high and so deep it will make the Great Wall of China and the Berlin Wall look like Play school toys.

Then post 24/7 guards with the order to shot to kill and do it, just like they did in Berlin if you got past the land mines.

Oh then stop allowing American Companies to build things in Mexico, do you drive a Dodge Pick up, guess where it was built, yup South of the Border.

VW bugs were too till they stopped making them, your Medicine probably comes from there too and heaven knows what else yet there are good things that come from there also.

I know some here are from Mexico, South America and other points south but this is not about you, it is about 100% illegals from ALL countries.

Enough ,I am off the stump for good now. I will only read and not reply so y'all can breath relaxed now.

Jon

[squirtgun 122]

They say it is illegal to hire them, why not start with the first person they come in contact with, the person who is going to rent them a place to live? make that illegal too, and no cars, bank accounts, drivers licenses, no jobs, no free education and medical, no baby born here becomes American etc

There are more and more towns adopting these laws because our federal government is failing us so poorly in this area.I applaud them for making a stand.

[RyanH 14]

There are more and more towns adopting these laws because our federal government is failing us so poorly in this area.I applaud them for making a stand.

...because our federal government is failing us so poorly...

Brother, you said a mouthful. If more people would put the focus of their efforts back on the local effort, we could eliminate so many of our problems as they stand now.