7-25 year guarantee

[hack 14]

Anybody ever heard of Sealwize or Sealmax or Sealmaster?? From what I gather the pretty much petrify(sp?) the wood. Is that right or am I missing something. We went to the home show and one of them said a 7 year guarantee and one other I heard said like 25 years. Anybody????

[StainlessDeal 16]

Some people I know are pretty pumped about this product as a maintainable product, in a composite decking sort of way. Others are more doubtful. Nobody I know is sold on it yet, but I know a couple that are getting nearer, at last report.

What were your impressions?

We're practically neighbors, welcome to TGS!:lgwave:

(We'll see if anybody else wants to add their opinion)

[PressurePros 249]

JUNK... saw decks with this stuff after one year and they look horrible. You can't strip it.

[garcii2 14]

looking at their website:

ZEROVOC is a water-based, solvent free, super hydrophobic, self-reactive siliconate HYBRID protective water sealer.

ZEROVOC combines the latest advances in the water sealer technology with tried and proven silicate technology creating a protective water sealer that is unmatched and unsurpassed at withstanding the elements.

ZEROVOC is a “one-of-a-kind” protective water sealer and is the result of years of research based upon advanced reactive siliconate technology. It is in a class by itself and differs greatly from other water repellents and water sealers on the market.

seem like pure BS :lgbonk: I never liked to put water base sealer on wood especially acrylic!!!!!

[hack 14]

Don`t think I have an opinion yet. Just have seen them at some home shows a little. Never seen any of them out working but who knows. Just looks and sounds to me like it petrifys the wood and basically makes it one solid mass.

We are almost neighbors, we usually come up every year for the College WS in Omaha. Love it up there. Great baseball, Great city.

Have a good year everyone.

[PressurePros 249]

Hack, can we get a signature from you, bro?

[jhutch 14]

JUNK... saw decks with this stuff after one year and they look horrible. You can't strip it.

When were you in the KC area?

[PressurePros 249]

I have an office there and we do 200 decks per year in Kansas City.

[KC Deck 14]

Where is your office located??? Kansas City is pretty big.

I have my office in the northland, but have done decks in Stanley, OP, Lenexa, Olathe, etc...

[PressurePros 249]

Nah, I don't have an office there, I just don't know who this jhutch is.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

Nah, I don't have an office there, I just don't know who this jhutch is.

Ken, You crack me up... lol

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Sounds like precat lacquer or waterbased acrylic hype. Could be like the waterbased epoxy stuff too since the term reactive is used. Who knows with all that fancy lingo..could even be just like conversion varnish which can look like hell after a short time out of doors.

All I know is everything is oil when ya break it down and it's durability depends on it's carrier, catylization, and curing methods. Ran up on a dang good website about wood coatings one time and it takes ya through each and every product through history and explains all the differences between.

The two very best permenant coatings that seal are catylized urethane and solvent based epoxy period. With that said, if you want to get such coatings off when they do fail (wear, element & Sun exposure, hydrostatic pressure, etc.) your looking at very caustic, dangerous, and expensive epoxy paint removers like Jasco or Aircraft Stripper. Lacquer thinner helps too in that goal of getting off....But Never put a permenant product on a surface that will be harmed by its remover's!!

Personaly I believe most wood should be allowed to breath, flex, and swell with the seasons..

Can anyone confirm a product that keeps its gloss out of doors for a year or more under say $40 a gal that isn't cat or epoxy.? Heck I would love to test it out.

[Rfitz 14]

Also, with this product, there is no tint, it is clear, so basically, it would need to be re washed every s 6 months to one year, due to UV damage from the sun, all I know is hear they keep changing their name...?

Companies typically that do this are usually being chased by lots of unsatisfied customers...?????

And so far the company says it has no plans in the future to offer color / tinting whatsoever, basically what I found out is the product cant be tinted,

in any way shape or form, and for that kind of annual maintenenace would you be willing to spend $4 to $6 a sq ft for the initila treatment that needs that kind of constant washing...??

I wouldnt....

[reed 500]

They don't strip either. If your deck has a prior stain on it they don't strip, but clean and put their silicone crap on it. Here in the St. Louis area they have quite a few BBB actions. Plus, they are way over priced, almost double of what you and I would charge.

Product was developed for concrete overpasses, not wood.

Say away from this stuff and discourage it's use on wood whenever you can.

MHO.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

They don't strip either. If your deck has a prior stain on it they don't strip, but clean and put their silicone crap on it. Here in the St. Louis area they have quite a few BBB actions. Plus, they are way over priced, almost double of what you and I would charge.

Product was developed for concrete overpasses, not wood.

Say away from this stuff and discourage it's use on wood whenever you can.

MHO.

ooo.. sounds like yer saying it is that densifier stuff to make concrete waterproof when it can be made that way in first place...

btw.. link please..or is that discouraged here. I forget

[PressurePros 249]

SealMaxx: Deck, Concrete & Masonry Sealant

The power of fluff marketing at its best. I have heard of contractors getting $8 per s/f to apply it. I doubt it will be enough to keep them afloat. Their customer service is lousy based upon the hundreds of homeowners I have had contact with around the country. I was in a campaign gathering evidence against them after their attornies sent me a letter to stop bad mouthing their crap. I've since given that to the hands of God. Companies like that hang themselves.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

thanx for the link...apparently it is a penetrating sealer rather than a surface product.

In terms of concrete sealing and strengthening it doesn't sound like anything magical beyond that of other products. Concrete gets stronger as it cures at slower rates so most anything that will keep the water in does such. I don't think the psi breaking point and penetration amounts they site are anything to brag about and are low pressures to site. Modern concrete mixes with admix are standard up around 4k to begin with aren't they? ..and 5 to 7k for a tad bit more money. The strengthening is important for vehicle traffic and forklift traffic early on in new warehouse and hanger type places and so they often times need a bit more strength faster regardless of this kinda stuff.

But there is something to be considered about the differences between products that are just water proof and products that are a vapor barrier. Vapor barrier stuff is about $80 to $150 per gal. Last time I checked HD.

One thing lots of folks don't understand is that just cause a surface is waterproof doesn't mean water vapor won't pass through it. Some places need vapor barrier but I neverhad the priviledge of knowing anybody that applies it in the construction field.

With that said, they don't even claim this stuff to be a vapor barrier from what the literature says..If I missed it please can someone let me know..

How much is this stuff costing folks?

[PressurePros 249]

I think you have to be a franchisee to purchase.

I would think think if you were to put a vapor barrier on wood it will rot unless you coat it on all sides. Moisture neds to be able to pass through wood. Thats why paints and even solid stains eventually peel.

This is a chemical petrification process. I cannot claim to be an expert by any stretch but from what little I do understand it is a silica that cures in the wood. This process occurs in sunlight.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Pressure pros,

Two entirely different animals wood and crete are but apparently not in the case of being able to be penetrated and densified. Apparently also the wood product is different than the concrete product from what yer saying about the needing sunlight to do its silica cure. I only looked at the crete info cause it interests me as to what this stuff is and I didn't see anything on how it cures. I think Reed is correct in its origins. By petrify I assume you mean making harder and what...most likely not as flexable? That has to be the case. I wouldn't want it on my stained woods or furniture type stuff. Just wouldn't be wood anymore really. But hey we got to admit others might want it on their various things.

Wouldn't doubt the same stuff can be found in the concrete field though and that they didn't really invent anything. I've heard about such fancy stuff least a decade ago.

Maybe a google search of penetrating silica will bring some light..

....But to change the subject.. I want to try and make some sense of the whole vapor barrier thing....

Vapor barrier in wood would be no different then when a piece of wood is flush against some other non penetratable (to both water and vapor)object such as metal. The part of the wood that got touched by the vapor barrier would pass no vapor and the part that didn't quite get protected would pass the vapor as normal in whatever direction around it same as any other time. It would not be a thing of water collecting at the spot just next to the spot of no protection within the wood cause two reasons. For one the vapor stays vapor due to the temp that is why it is vapor. It don't condense is what I mean to say until temp changes and is always present. And for two it doesn't condense unless it can have a space to do such. Could be a void next to any water proof coating actually.

The vapor barrier does not fail due to vapor though where as sealers and paints and acrylics, etc, on outside can by way of lost grip, etc.. The wicking action of a part of the wood unsealed would have a problem same as any other product that attempted to water seal only part of the wood. Picture normal coatings used on wood painted on a sheet of metal on top of say a deck. The coating will not fail from inside out(grip wise)cause vapor did not try and pass through the metal and the wood would not rot unless standing water was allowed between the metal (metaphorical vapor barrier)and the wood by way of an air space. Like you could picture raising the metal as a roof above.. well then there is a whole lot of air space for water to collect under if you allowed it there. If the metal is exactly flush though, liquid water can not get in and everything is fine. No airspace equals sealed to water. The vapor barrier product would be similar result as that except it is really flush and actual within the wood. This is how it is for concrete problem situations how places keep coatings from failing in an extreme enviroment on concrete where vapor comes from beneith. And I view about same for wood. a slab or a deck both can be on an invisable steam bed of humidity sorta....Well there..I talked and rambled myself through that to what end I don't know..lol.what I just say?

[RPetry 564]

Kevin,

You raise some interesting ideas and I've been somewhat stumped on the "why's" of some things I've seen in the field.

For example, acrylic stains on exterior wood. Fail they do over time, maybe from wear, but possibly from temperature expansion and contraction. In temperate climates, air temperatures can vary 40 degrees F. over a 24 hr. period. My speculation has been that the hard, plastic like film will eventually develop micro cracks, allowing liquid water to penetrate into the wood.

I have seen a clear cedar deck, rotting in areas from the inside towards the surface. Even vertical spindles, held together by the stain skin itself. Cedar you could poke your finger into. Rotten to the core. No standing water that day, but the Delmhorst moisture meter with pins in all the way off the chart.

Pressure treated decks with acrylic stains, the wood so swelled there are no more gaps between deck boards. PT decks actually out of plumb and line due to wood expansion. Somehow, it seems liquid water or possibly vapor gets into the wood, and cannot escape.

This is certainly not true for all acrylic coated exterior wood decks. And not knowing how the wood was prepped before the coating was applied may also be key. Is it possible that the wood was wet (ie. high moisture content) when the acrylic coating was applied and the water (vapor, liquid, whatever) could not escape?

All I know is that I have seen some substantial damage from these coatings, including latex stains. Naturally led me early on in this business to avoid any exterior stains that form any type of "film".

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Some examples I consider of sealing and moisture behavior within the objects of our cleaning desires whether they are wood, concrete or carpet;

I picture them all as a sponge that can whick moisture to anywhere within that isn't sealed almost as if there is a river flowing underneith the filming seal. If the rivers source is minimized then of course there will be less chance for damage. In the case of carpet the water (along with missed dirt) will whick or leach back up to surface if so much was introduced in the first place to where it can not dry quik enough. Relying on prespotter and less water is best for carpet and they really should not be coated with teflon type stain prevention stuff till dry. Wood is similar. You cut off the flow of water as much as you can by not having sprinklers underneaith and you use PT when it is placed into the greatest sponge the ground. But! , even though Pt is through and through treated it still contains moisture as it is a preservative against bacteria and not a seal. It will whick, swell, and warp just fine. (or terrible depending on how you view it)..

If you take a sponge and soak it in an acrylic type product and when dry it will end up hard and you can then dunk it in water with it not being effected. However an actual sponges poors are much more absorbant and the product can fully get to all parts of it. Wood and concrete won't absorb the acrylic deep at all cause of likely both it's carrier is not a good solvent and its particles are probably rather big and so acrylic is a top coat. Now with pure constantly liquid oil and a sponge you can dunk it in water without it being effected and is flexible all the time. ( yer long oils versus short oils in wood care). Oil/solvent goes much deeper in both wood and concrete hence sealing better. This is good for wood of course but you have to replenish it as it is never totally solid and it evaporates leaving voids. For my purposes in concrete care the oil is no good as then I can't get proper binding to it with the hard acrylic top coats cause the oil is too flexible and they just don't mix usually neither. But in the case of concrete our products are described in percentages of solids left after they dry.. solvent base usually carry more solid as it is better at keeping things liquid and they penetrate deeper cause they keep the solids dissolved smaller....

When considering the actual topic here I guess we should hand it to whoem ever the inventors are of a product that gets silica deep into things for to densify them permenantly cause everything else is just oil..

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Note the lumber and concrete treatment info:

Sodium silicate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

..wonder if we can make a similar sealer more cheaply out of the Red Devil TSP: Household Products Database ..anyone know how much it costs?

The wikipedia mentions about how they had been trying to come up with ways of making it permenant treatment as they apparently now have in this Sealmax product. I might be able to get satisfactory results with a home brew on crete.

p.s. -

But oh wait..why bother going through all that trouble? Here is probably most likely an equivlent to the sealmax stuff for $32 per gal. Concrete Sealer, Concrete Sealant - VSeal

Not a bad deal for a 20 year seal that apparently keeps a natural look to whatever substrate your heart desires it on..

[PressurePros 249]

V-Seal makes decent products

[Greg R 82]

The stuff is kind of interesting to me... I took a gallon of One-Time and poured some in a plastic pop bottle to set out in the sun and the stuff cured into a solid mass. I would imagine it's similar to that of Sealmaxx and Sealwise both of which are applying the Sealit product I believe. The product can be tinted but it doesn't change the fact that the deck is going to need to maintained for appearance purposes. Been toying with the product for about 2 months now just trying to figure it out to see if it actually does anything to PRESERVE the wood.

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Depending on what dilution and what yer mixing it with it seems the silicate can be a penetrating seal or a contributor to certain cleaning mixtures both concrete and wood.

Ken and I was discussing such earlier today...Maybe he'll pay a visit and offer up anything new he may have on it's possable uses.

[PressurePros 249]

The problem wiith these curing silica sealers is what Greg mentions.. You cannot get them to release from the wood (to my knowlege) The wood is basically chemically petrified. Even if one were to pre-stain the wood or tint the product it will wear. Pigment is UV sacrificial. Eventually you end up with a gray mess that you have to live with. I have heard banter here and there about water borne stains to go over these type of products but how long will that last before it peels? I think these products could be used to deter rot (as an undercoat for paint) but aesthetically they hold no value.