Inside 911

[Jeff 232]

Anybody watch National Geographics show "Inside 911" I've seen it 2 times already and I always when there on watch shows of 911. I just get so mad! Are we much safer today and I just wonder why we took a lot of our troops off chasing Bin Laden

Radical Clerics..............CIA kill those who speak to kill us. You know they are going to get us again, it could be in 10 days or 10 years, but they get us

Damn I hate these peice of crap radical Islam or what ever you want to call them. Hell we let every Illegal in over the borders for cheap labor , guess were the radicals will come in if they want. Hell we'll let them cash a check at Bank of America so they can buy bomb making stuff and it will be a phony ID. Some times I think we are just doomed, I pray not

Nuke em all and lets finish it now

Sorry for the rant 911 shows really get to me. God Bless all the 911 familys

[PLD 14]

Hey Phil, what credible evidence is there that Bin Laden is dead?

We haven't been able to find him, so he obviously never existed...

[Jeff 232]

We haven't been able to find him, so he obviously never existed...

Oh OK , now I understand

As someone once said (Quote,PD)......."That said, I'm not ever going to sit back and let recently invented facts fly without calling BS"

As Joe Friday(Dragnet) would say......Just the Facts Phil, Just the Facts......... or should I say B-------

[Jeff 232]

And this is where I have a problem with war opponents saying they *support* the troops. Follow my logic:

They (the troops) are there on the ground, front and center. They are seeing it for real, not on CNN. They sleep in the dirt. The bombs they hear do not come from the radio speakers. They don't just know someone who lost a son, they saw, smelled, and tasted a buddy's brains splattered on their clothes. For them it is not a BS session on TGS. It is for real, no bullshit, life or death. 3200 dead is not a statistic, it's their odds a life sized game of russian roulette. AND THEY SUPPORT THE WAR. Strongly enough to wager their OWN LIFE...

Now; If they are for the war and you are against it, how exactly are you supporting them?

Oh now you know for a fact that they all are for the war. Whens the last time you talked to ALL the soldiers or do the 100,000+ of them email you

I'm supporting them by my words & feelings on the Iraq war, I just dont have to play follow the leader to prove it

Phil you can try to paint me anyway you want. but I have ALWAYS supported our men & women in the military. I have ALWAYS supported a large & strong military budget, ALWAYS supported veterans programs and ALWAYS have held our military in the highest regard. I love what these men & women do for us. I love and am very proud of their bravery that they show in war & peace time FOR US. God bless them

I personally know of and talked to a few that ARE NOT FOR THE WAR in Iraq, but they do their job and do it well and with pride, yes I also know a few that are for it also. I know 2 brothers & a father ( National Guard)that spent a year in Iraq and they went and served together, the father who served with them and the mother that gave the military the OK for them to serve together are both against the war in Iraq. this mother & father said if they (The 2 sons & father) are going to Iraq they are going as a family to watch & protect each other and yes possibly die together. The Father is against being in Iraq and the 2 boys are for it. They are an amazing & brave family ( They are some big boys too, I'd hate to get into hand to hand with them)

So am I for or against the military or just against the war in Iraq.

[PLD 14]

Great observation, Jeff. You were right to call BS on me. My statement was patently absurd. No intelligent person could conclude that just because we cannot find UBL that he does not exist. Particularly when we know he was there before we arrived.

It's kind of like those pesky WMD's. No reasonable person could conclude that just because we cannot find them that they do not exist. Particularly we knew they once did.

As someone once said (Quote,PD)......."That said, I'm not ever going to sit back and let recently invented facts fly without calling BS"

We haven't been able to find him, so he obviously never existed...

[PLD 14]

Oh now you know for a fact that they all are for the war. Whens the last time you talked to ALL the soldiers or do the 100,000+ of them email you

Now that's a brilliant response. Did you pick that one up in 3rd grade debate class? Since you know that I didn't received the 100k emails, I assume that you did?

Back to reality: No, Jeff I haven't talked to them all. Nor have I based my opinion on anecdotal conversations with 4 people that I know. I have based it on published information about enlistment rates, re-enlistment rates, and AWOL rates. ALL of which show that people are willing to stake their lives on what we are doing in Iraq. Like I said before; They are there on the ground, front and center. For them it is for real, no bullshit, life or death. And they support the war strongly enough to wager their own life.

Hence, I pose this question: One man is there risking his own life and believes that the cause is a good one. The other guy is sitting on his couch 6000 miles away and basing his opinions on what gets shown on the evening news. Who should a reasonable person believe about the truth?

[Jeff 232]

Great observation, Jeff. You were right to call BS on me. My statement was patently absurd. No intelligent person could conclude that just because we cannot find UBL that he does not exist. Particularly when we know he was there before we arrived.

It's kind of like those pesky WMD's. No reasonable person could conclude that just because we cannot find them that they do not exist. Particularly we knew they once did.

I just dont know when to stop Phil. Now if we could just get BinLaden & WMD's together and blow them both up. KABOOM. That would be a good day for sure

Phil, as for that credible evidence about UBL, I just havent heard it or read it, I think it would be an interesting read. Could you point me in the right direction, buddy?

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Hence, I pose this question: One man is there risking his own life and believes that the cause is a good one. The other guy is sitting on his couch 6000 miles away and basing his opinions on what gets shown on the evening news. Who should a reasonable person believe about the truth?

Too arbitrary. The one in the thick of it is bound by duty and consequences for disobeying orders, the other is being fed information with a spin. They both have been lead to believe something through one influence or another. Hate is an easy fire to fuel, thus your enlistment rates are still active but heres another catch: How many of them were tricked into enlisting for the money and the promise of not having to go over seas? This is a factor not published is it? I have seen recruiters in action and an introspective was shown on them as well. Did you know they get incentives for quota?

What is reasonable in a person when it is entirely dependent upon ones point of view and influences? Again, too arbitrary.

How is this for being a reasonable person: Consider both sides. Now that's being fair.

How about this question: Why is our government a proponent of hate?

How about I postulate something in regard to the supposed wmd's never found; perhaps they sold them to make money to pay for the damages of the first war we launched on them? Perhaps they rented out facilities to other nations interested in using them for development, thus making money to help rebuild? Whose their neighbor who now has nuke capabilities?

And why aren't we jumping on them? Historically, any country that has nuke capabilities has been handled with kid gloves. With Iraq, there never was any threat from them directly, but we went in on assumptions anyway. So, why are we really there is the next 'logical' question. Oil exploration rights anyone? This is why we are having such a bad time there. The Iraqi's know it.

I have nothing against Iraq because nothing conclusive has been given to show that they as a country were behind 911. Not like Japan who played with us while planning and 'executing' a direct and full fledged attack. What we have been sold is speculation based upon intelligence information that was proven to be incorrect. Without going into details, I like so many other Americans watched much of what was being televised in direct relation to the preliminary process of going to war. I watched as C. Powell gave a testimonial that the intelligence reports were inconclusive and did not substantiate any claims of nukes in Iraq. We sent in the U.N. inspectors and they came back with the same report but still we went. Now who do you think I am going to believe or be swayed by? Philip or the ones who were there conducting the inspections?

Philip loses. Since you are so willing to support this war which is a 'reality', so why not join?

I am sure they could use your knowledge to kill someone.

Rod!~

[Jeff 232]

Now that's a brilliant response. Did you pick that one up in 3rd grade debate class? Since you know that I didn't received the 100k emails, I assume that you did?

Even for as you say a 3rd grade debate response Phil its a very good point. You always are saying you are for the troops and I'm not, so obviously you dont know sh*T because no matter how many times you say it, I have and always will support the troops. I just figured since you always state you know what the troops ALL are thinking or want that maybe they all were emailing you.

Oh Ya, As for 3rd grade debate class remark...........How can I put this nicely..................**** **:lgbugeyes ...... I know, I know Phil, a very uneducated & stupid remark, but not anymore than yours.

Back to reality: No, Jeff I haven't talked to them all. Nor have I based my opinion on anecdotal conversations with 4 people that I know. I have based it on published information about enlistment rates, re-enlistment rates, and AWOL rates. ALL of which show that people are willing to stake their lives on what we are doing in Iraq. Like I said before; They are there on the ground, front and center. For them it is for real, no bullshit, life or death. And they support the war strongly enough to wager their own life.

Anecdotal conversation!!!-- I rather hear it from a real person living it, than some report

Alright you havent talked to them all, so how do you know what they all want? I know tons of soldiers are 100% behind this war in Iraq, I also know that tons of them are not. So why dont you support the ones that are not behind this war, Are they unAmerica??? can you say they are wrong to have their beliefs ( Tell me Phil why dont you support them!!!! They are the troops you keep talking about too). I'll give you that the majority of the military support the war in Iraq ( Althou I dont know that for sure I would assume they do) But the ones that are there and dont support it are just as great of americans than those who do. That 1 father who is in the military with his 2 sons his opinion matters

Yes I have had conversations with 4 people its actually more than that, but I listen to them and they are just as important than your published infomation, wether they support it or dont

This is based on published infomation, thats almost funny Phil. Not being blindly faithful of Goverment reports, I figure some of these reports are tilted towards the ones that are publishing them, the military & the administration. Im sort of surprised at you Phil, I would of thought you would be more of a free thinker

Facts are the enlistment & reenlistment rates were down quite a bit. The military has adjusted their standards because they werent having enough people enlisting or reenlisting. They now will let people in their 40's in the military in a war zone, I'm talking Grunts not brass. They have lowered educational standards. They dont have enough regular military or people enlisting so this is why they are using National Guard and sending them in tour after tour of duty( This isnt what the Guard was designed for and i can guarantee you that they all arent 100% behind the Iraq war, They must be Unamerican), they are cutting back on time at home for them. They promised Guard & regular military a year or more back home before redeployment and have cut those times down. They have raised reenlistment bonuses ( Which they should have done) To keep the soldiers in, because they were losing to many. They have over 100,000 private contractors that are doing jobs the military usually would have done. This isnt counting the other private contractors, this is contractors that their jobs are basically military jobs BUT THEY JUST DONT HAVE ENOUGH SOLDIERS(security, supply and other military jobs). There are some military that want out, their time is up and they CAN'T get out, because its war time and the military can keep them even thou the only signed on for say 2-3 years

So as for your published infomation, I can can make the reports look good too if I can change the rules and guidelines as I go

Yes these great men & women will stake their lives in Iraq, but it doesnt mean they support it 100% or at all. You know what would happen to a soldier that refused to go, because they didnt support the Iraq war, or because their time was up, or they wanted what they were promised, a year back home. What are they going to do Say sorry I dont support this Iraq war, sorry my time is up, sorry I refuse to go, sorry you said I'd have a year back home. No they cant do that so they just go do their job, whether they support the Iraq War or not. Just like that 1 father I talked to

Phil I'm playing the devils advocate on some of this I know and it may sound to some that I am anti military, but some know Im not and can see where I'm coming from and can see or undersatnd others veiws and I know I'm not anti military, I just Know am anti Iraq war for many of the reasons I've stated in the past., just like some in those published reports you quote, some dont believe in the Iraq war, but they signed up to do a job and God love them they are doing it. Phil if there was a draft today and they drafted me at 45 to go to Iraq, I would, I wouldnt like it. If I was in my 20's and there was a draft I would go ( Yes, I would not volunteer to go to Iraq) But I would go, because it would be required of me and the law, if they are drafting people it probably would be a real need and I as a good American I would do what I have to do. Phil this is all very real to me. I have a son that is turning 4 and someday my son may have to go to war. I'd hate it. My wife and i talk about our son and my wife keeps saying my son will never go to a war, she wouldnt let it happen. I argue with her and I tell her my son will do what is required of him, thats part of being an American. We ( my family) have a vested intrest in how we as a country conduct our foreign policy. If we dont do the right things now my son & maybe my daughter some day may have to pay for the mistakes of our president or others now. I think Iraq was a mistake and has inflamed a whole region and caused more terrorism and I thought this before things started going badly or even before we went in. I wouldnt be a good American if I just let things happen that I thought were wrong. I dont just post here I also email my politicians and the Whitehouse on this and other matters. I email them when I dont support or agree with them and I email them when I support & agree with them too.

Phil you're what us dumb people call Book Smart. you have your head so far up your ass in books, numbers and published reports, that you cant ever be wrong or even just understand someone else's views. Thats to bad!! I can understand your view

I'm am truly surprised you didnt read back some, to the reports that stated enlistments and reenlistments were down or did you just forget to mention them. Ha

Hence, I pose this question: One man is there risking his own life and believes that the cause is a good one. The other guy is sitting on his couch 6000 miles away and basing his opinions on what gets shown on the evening news. Who should a reasonable person believe about the truth?

Pose your question to the good soldier that thinks the cause isnt a good one and the Iraq war is wrong. You dont know, you are on that same couch

Agree to disagree I guess, I got to go, I have to go sit on my couch

I await your response with great anticipation:wave: I'm sure it will be interesting to say the least

[PLD 14]

I await your response with great anticipation. I'm sure it will be interesting to say the least

Actually, it will be quite boring. I'm simply not going to take the time to formulate a response because your perspective is so dislocated from reality that it would take pages and pages to provide an intelligent rebuttal.

[Jeff 232]

Actually, it will be quite boring. I'm simply not going to take the time to formulate a response because your perspective is so dislocated from reality that it would take pages and pages to provide an intelligent rebuttal.

Good!!! So should we call this the end. Its fine with me it doesnt sound like either one of us really want to beat this dead horse anymore. Have a good one Phil

Life is Good

Jeff

[PLD 14]

Good!!! So should we call this the end. Its fine with me it doesnt sound like either one of us really want to beat this dead horse anymore. Have a good one Phil

Until next time... :)

PD

[squirtgun 122]

Until next time... :)

PD

Does this mean it's done?

Thank you God...........:lgbow:

[Jeff 232]

The End

[Jeff 232]

Does this mean it's done?

Thank you God...........:lgbow:

Hey did you hear John T is doing Hillary, dont tell anyone

I think I'm going to try to stay out of all political & religious discussions for 3 months, just to see if I can

APRIL FOOLS, I'LL BE BACK. I'll try

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Does this mean it's done?

Thank you God...........:lgbow:

YOUR WELCOME

Rod!~

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Actually, it will be quite boring. I'm simply not going to take the time to formulate a response because your perspective is so dislocated from reality that it would take pages and pages to provide an intelligent rebuttal.

Right. :hmmm:

I would take that more like "uhoh, I'm alone on this one and don't have anything to really rebut with so I'll just play the I am too smart for them and leave them feeling like I think they are beneath me."

That's just my take on it but it does not matter, nothing would have been produced out of all this anyway to change the world or make it a better place for all our sakes and the arguments would have gone on indefinitely.

I am glad to put this one to bed (for good) and hope that those who have read this thread like so many other politically charged ones that they are not going to as someone put it so eloquently "Give us truth or knowledge" but a venue for drama which we have developed an inherent nature for not unlike a moth to a flame in so much as we cannot help ourselves but be the primal creatures we have always been and never learn how to become something above it.

My lesson out of this is that there are too many people in the world who are so into the status quo and will not speak up against it because they are convinced of it as the only way.

Rod!~

ps. Reality, that is a good one, again, too arbitrary and not a valid argument. 'click' (out go the lights)

[PLD 14]

Does this mean it's done?

APRIL FOOLS!

Jeff and I just said that to get you guys. We'll fire this one back up again this evening...

[PLD 14]

I would take that more like "uhoh, I'm alone on this one and don't have anything to really rebut with so I'll just play the I am too smart for them and leave them feeling like I think they are beneath me."

Well, you read it wrong. It was more like "My God! I cannot take any more of Rod's aristocratic attitude and spineless passive-aggressive statements."

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Philip,

No name calling, period.

It must stop here. I personally do not care where anyone stands on an issue, that choice is theirs and personal, but I do care about bashing and name calling on the part of anyone.

Beth

[PLD 14]

Beth,

You're right. I apologize for letting my emotions override my manners...

[Jeff 232]

I think I'm going to try to stay out of all political & religious discussions for 3 months, just to see if I can

Only 2 months and 28 days to go:banghead: ..........LOL