WTW tips

[bigchaz 157]

700 sq foot all horizontal job I just sold with wood tux wet. Stripped the previous finish and brightened

Any tips for the WTW? I learned on my sample tests that it should be really thin. The wood is pine. Planning on using the 18 inch pad for it

Anything I should know or y'all recommend before putting it on?

[Jarrod 22]

Some of the recent posts - franchise talk, tweaking is for hobbyists - is all well and good for some business models, if that is your goal. Yes, Shane has consistency with his product with beautiful results. Diamond Jim has outstanding results with his Ready Seal. There are Wolman guys with killer pics, same with Mesmers, Penofin.

The bottom line is.......tweaking is not for hobbyists, it is what a professional does to make a product do what the professional says. There are multiple companies on this forum who have been "tweaking" WT for 2-3 years - what that indicates to me is that we have a manufacturer that is LISTENING to the contractors and TRYING to make people happy. I totally agree with you. People should remember to be careful what they wish for. Any other manufacturers doing that??? No. It shows that the product in and of itself has great merit and HELLO, we're all a part of making it the best it can be. This will sound quite disrespectful but it's their own claim - if you want a goof-proof stain, use Ready Seal. - No thanx

Off my soapbox.

The next batch is coming soon, I think it will work fine.

[CB works 14]

Yeah, you would think there would be some understanding, instead it's condescending.

Now we have condesending remark's from the people who tried to cherry coat the problem in the first place.

[Jarrod 22]

Yeah, you would think there would be some understanding, instead it's condescending.

Now we have condesending remark's from the people who tried to cherry coat the problem in the first place.

Who has made condescending remarks? Just curious, I just skimmed over all the posts here.

[Jarrod 22]

Well, to clarify, when I say "tweaking is for hobbyists" I mean that it is for the guy or gal that actually has time for it. They sorta have a niche market and do high end service. They treat their "job" sorta like a hobby. It's something they love to do, & they actually get paid for it. A business person is in it more for the money not the "Love of the game" aspect.

I guess what I'm saying is - I totally agree with you (Kevin & Celeste)

Look at me, quoting myself, he, he. I hope that what I posted here wasn't taken wrong. I say hobbyist in a complimentary way.

[PressurePros 249]

Ken,

"every formula needs to be precise. Thats the only way a business can grow with unskilled labor at the helm."

Surely many folks in here understand this point and instinctively or knowingly practice being precise. Personally my memory is shot so I could be viewed as unskilled labor in a way. My solution is to absorb all the important little tips and formulas and compose them into organized drafts that almost anyone including myself can make sense of a year down the road. As example I have a draft of recipes I can refer to at moments notice that people have shared.

Unskilled labor are the guys you have on your trucks.

[Jarrod 22]

Jarrod,

Perhaps you really meant to relay feeling that tweaking is not for pencil pushing desk people that rarely are charged with doing flexable business duties deemed by them or their supperiors as being outside their job description. I don't know what to say really to your use of the word 'hobbyist'. I can tell you this that here in Cali the act of staining is considered same as painting trade and the state contractors licensing board exams will require lots of tweaking knowledge. They'll beg to differ with you..The tweak himself is never a hobbyist if he is in business but his people under him might be..

I speak to this only cause I used the 'tweak' word prior and felt like your perhaps speaking more so to me then others. It may seem like I am double talking sometimes here by saying this stain should be good to go out the can but realize I am not speaking to hobbyists or HO's here and I mean to compare the product issues with other commercial products being used.

If your only interested in out the can commercial production then that is fine as it fits into a perfect world goal of all coatings being fool proofe but many of us are quite capable of tweaking things as needed or required.

Not meaning to sound offensive but I am 180 degree from you on your point. Tweaking is for business/skilled people, and lack of ability to tweak people that must use out the can is perhaps a hobbyists/laymen/or newbie in his field. I like and work with both types.. :)

I just re-read your post Kevin. As far as the "tweaking" thing goes, I was generalising (including everyone) I can't tweak anything for 2 reasons -

1 - I'm not talented or patient enough

2 - I have 6 employees doing decks (imagine 6 guys tweaking WTW.)OMG!!

Put a tweaker up against me and I'll look like a newbe.

[CB works 14]

Jarrod,

I wish I wouldn't have posted that remark because I hate negativity. If I read the post wrong than I apologize for the comment.

[squirtgun 122]

I knew this thread was going to be intersting.

[Jarrod 22]

Jarrod,

I wish I wouldn't have posted that remark because I hate negativity. If I read the post wrong than I apologize for the comment, but since there was no mention of how much mineral spirits to add, I was asking if adding spirits would sacrifice the durability of the stain. Then Beth responded with her post. I also thought in her original post she started her responce with "Honestly" which I thought was a little condescending.

Again, If I read the post wrong,

I apologize.

No big deal. The written word without facial expression, voice inflection, and body language can be easilly misunderstood. Actually, I was really wondering if it was my post that you were talking about. LOL

Sometimes I come off "high & mighty" but it's just me over doing it to make a point.

It's all good

[squirtgun 122]

No big deal. The written word without facial expression, voice inflection, and body language can be easilly misunderstood. Actually, I was really wondering if it was my post that you were talking about. LOL

Sometimes I come off "high & mighty" but it's just me over doing it to make a point.

It's all good

All the time......who are you trying to kid.................lol

[Scott Paul 164]

No big deal. The written word without facial expression, voice inflection, and body language can be easilly misunderstood. Actually, I was really wondering if it was my post that you were talking about. LOL

Sometimes I come off "high & mighty" but it's just me over doing it to make a point.

It's all good

"high and mighty"? Is that what you get smelling fumes and lifting 5 gallons buckets all day?

[CB works 14]

Why, were you getin smart with me???

That's almost the only "downer" about these boards. It's hard to read into how people are coming across.

I went ahead and removed the accused. Man am I a wuss. I bet it would have got removed anyway. LOL

No big deal. The written word without facial expression, voice inflection, and body language can be easilly misunderstood. Actually, I was really wondering if it was my post that you were talking about. LOL

Sometimes I come off "high & mighty" but it's just me over doing it to make a point.

It's all good

[CB works 14]

The big pro about these boards is how much you learn (me anyway). Lord knows I wouldn't be where I am today without them. Hopefully after this next batch, the curing issue will be solved and this portion of this thread can go to more productive learning.

Take your time Russell, get this right because there lots of people who like you're stain, me included.

[Jarrod 22]

"high and mighty"? Is that what you get smelling fumes and lifting 5 gallons buckets all day?

LOL Great, now everyone knows my secret.

[Jarrod 22]

All the time......who are you trying to kid.................lol

Yeah, you're right. Now bow b4 me! BOW!

[MMI Enterprises 289]

Unskilled labor are the guys you have on your trucks.

We darn well betta have least one skilled person on the truck if the machine, mixing buckets, or customers surfaces are to get touched...lol :)

I view unskilled labor as those that need to be told or reminded what to do and they get to do all the hard grunt work...

Hello, my name is Kevin and I got no skilzzz.

[RPetry 564]

Celeste says:

There are multiple companies on this forum who have been "tweaking" WT for 2-3 years - what that indicates to me is that we have a manufacturer that is LISTENING to the contractors and TRYING to make people happy. Any other manufacturers doing that??? It shows that the product in and of itself has great merit and HELLO, we're all a part of making it the best it can be.

Had to read this a few times before even beginning to understand any possible meaning. This cannot be right, the stain is still in development after two or three years and it's "features" are being determined by an ad hoc committee of contractors? You cannot be serious.

Yet in my few experiences with the product, it possibly explains things. Two years this Nov. ordered my first WTW for a pressure treated job. Product was very thick, poorly integrated that needed a lot of mixing and thinning, and was a pain to apply. On the plus side, it was usable on "wet" wood, ie: moisture content over 12%. This is NJ in mid November where no wood will dry out for RS. The stain cured fine. Did a job in the neighborhood earlier this spring and was disappointed on the lack of remaining product on the deck floor after ~ 18 months, but the customer still seemed happy and I was able to complete an early winter job that year.

Now, 18 months later, order a 2nd bucket of WTW for an ipe' job. By look and "feel", a completely new product. But as a contractor, I have to do the testing. The stain does not cure correctly. Get some Japan Drier and test again. The stain does not cure overnight but does seem to dry better. Start actually using it in production on a paying job. Three days later it is still tacky, even with 4 oz. of Japan Drier / gal. of WTW. Yesterday, had to strip off half the deck floor and start again. Have a separate ipe' porch that will eventually have to be stripped after the customer's party this Sunday.

A job that should have run no more than 5 calendar days is turning into a 2 week fiasco.

I do not necessarily mind, always seems to be one job a season that takes way longer than anticipated and you net pennies instead of dollars. I consider these jobs normal continuing education tuition. What I do object to is being an unwilling participant in stain manufacturer's R&D test, at my and my customers time and expense.

Look, ESI has had WTW on the market for over two, maybe over three years now. It should have been stable and consistant by now. With all the rave reviews here on TGS, the stain must have been a good product at some point. Please get back there and keep it there. Maybe some wood contractors will be willing to try WTW again if they have faith in the product.

[RPetry 564]

Ken, you said:

In making the process of applying WT a little more forgiving (which I hounded ESI for just about every day last year) they used a carrier that allowed greater working time and (I think) reduced the amount of the drying agent. The result has been wonderful but as Russell explained to me, all testing was done on very hot decks (which they are 90% of the time). Early spring testing has had some guys have issues because of temps and moisture (heat is important in the curing process).

There is a big disconnect from what you were told and what I am seeing. You can confirm this as you are about 40 miles from me. The daily high temperatures these past 4 days has been 80, 86, 91, 89 F., with fairly low relative humidity. Aside from the thunderstorm last night, no rain.

I have WTW with added 4 oz. / gal. Japan Drier that was applied this past Tuesday that was still tacky or not fully cured on parts of an ipe' balustrade as of yesterday. Top of the handrail mostly cured but the vertical spindles and fascia was not.

Unless "hot" weather in Missouri is different from "hot" weather in NJ, or ESI's tests were conducted on special woods, someone is not telling the full story.

[PressurePros 249]

I have to agree with you, Rick. There is more to this story than meets the eye. Like I mentioned, I pass on what is told to me. I had no call backs on any decks we have done but after conducting my own customer surveys with follow up calls, there were indeed drying issues and they did not meet the criteria for what was explained to me as the basic root of cause. I don't know what to believe anymore. Its very disheartening.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We have pails on order, and as soon as we get them, we'll open one and test it on a few surfaces. Should be really easy to tell from that. If it's back to being like "peas and carrots" we'll know within a few hours. I believe it will be. If anyone is going to have both pails in their shop, just mark them ( I know, you already thought of it) so you know which is which.

Beth :cup:

[yazbird8 17]

I do not use WTW so I am nothing more then an interested observer...My only take is that Russell should be an active (very) player in this thread....Seems to me he owes it to you all who use WTW to give an explanation/clarification....

Stephen Andrews

Power Washing

Home & Property

Care & Maintenance

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

I received my brown sugar yesterday. I seems a little darker than I expected, but it is likely my expectations are off. I tested a couple of spots on an old piece of pt and on a new piece of pt. It was dry in like 15 minutes. Not tacky this morning at all. I may have tested too thin though. This is my first time with WTW.

[Jarrod 22]

That is NOT Brown Sugar. Call Russell. I got the same stuff 2 days ago.

[Integrity Curb Appeal 64]

That is NOT Brown Sugar. Call Russell. I got the same stuff 2 days ago.

Do you have a true Brown Sugar sample photo you could post?

[Jarrod 22]

Do you have a true Brown Sugar sample photo you could post?

Sorry, I don't. I have 3 customers that want samples and I can't get them one yet.