First woodtux job

[plainpainter 217]

No - this ain't a thread about a new deck job. It's about my first deck I ever did with the woodtux product that I did last september. I had a chance to check the deck while the customer called back for something else. Looked no different than the day I put it on - and that's 10 months ago. But I did put it on thick - it was still shiny on all the summer grain. I kind of like that thick varnished look too - kind of like Sikkens. But no trace whatsoever of wear even on the stair treads. Anyone else like the alternative to matte/flat look for decking stains? Perhaps this is a way to get a stain to last real long - put it on real thick! Anyways take it for what it is worth - but looking at that deck, and my own that I did only 4 months prior to that - they are worlds apart - my deck finish is already all gone, different product - as well put on real thin so it was just matte. Actually all my verticals are still looking great - but horizontals, just totally wiped out.

[dpaull 80]

hrmm...good to hear that wood tux holds up well. I'm probably going to order some soon here. Had a customer interested, but ended up choosing something else.

But no, I always put stain on according to recommendations ...usually try for 200-250 sq. feet per gallon on most stuff. What was your coverage rate?

[plainpainter 217]

no clue, everything was hand brushed and actual decking was real small - like 3x6 feet with railings and 3 steps - and then some steps and railings on another deck that had porch and floor paint. Just real small time. Too little to tell anything. It was the Anti-Russel approach to applying woodtux, nice and shiny - LOL. It looks like, if you have ever done any varnish furniture refinishing - like the first coat of Marine/Spar varnish on some teak - that's how thick I put it on. But as thick as it was - it had absolutely no trouble drying. I just remembered this - this product was put on real thick - totally out of spec with ESI - and I remember checking this deck out like 3 days after it was done - and it was perfectly dry and cured and not tacky.

[Russell Cissell 65]

Daniel

I respect your opinion, and you are certainly entitled to one. You did a pretty good job of "selling" over application, but as you said, I am against it. I appreciate the fact that you pointed out that "over application" goes against the standard recommendations for the product. I'm also glad to hear that you are pleased with the way the product is wearing. That said, I need to take a moment to put some information out.

Wood-Tux was designed to be applied in one medium to heavy coat with no product build up on the surface after about 5 - 10 min of dwell time. The product is loaded with resin and pigment solids in order to deliver superior spread rates. In actuality when applied correctly Wood-Tux is one of the least expensive products you can use. This is because a larger percentage of other products either evaporate away or sink down into the wood leaving little protection at the surface. Wood-Tux dives into the wood remaining close to the surface where the most protection is needed.

When you over apply the product, it becomes much more difficult to work with and you run a much greater risk of having problems both during application and throughout the service life of the finish.

Uneven Finish - "The deck has shiny spots, they appear wet and the homeowner is concerned."

This is the most common call that I get from first time users of the product. It can be resolved fairly easily, but takes a return trip to the job.

Scratches - The more build up you have on the surface, the more likely it is to be scratched. In my opinion homeowners believe they are paying for as much "pretty" as "protection." If their deck gets scratches in it from a dog or dragging furniture, you are going to get a call.

Failure - Under the right conditions an over application could fail in two specific ways. First an over application cannot handle the freeze thaw cycle winter wood goes through as well. While it wont crack or peel it's not as malleable as a thinner application. Second is moisture trapping, if you apply a medium coat to a wet deck and then wait about an hour and apply another thin coat, it is possible for the second thin coat to cure without fully emulsifying with the first coat. This will lead to a milky muted look that can take weeks to go away. It does eventually cure out and look good, but the homeowner will not be happy.

Drying - Over application can lead to drying issues. In the right conditions such as cool, constant dampness or constant shade the product could take a long time to cure.

I'm not entirely convinced that an over application holds up any longer either. As the finish reaches the end of it's service life it is the resin that begins to fail first. With the resin built up above the surface of the wood the effects of failure will begin to mask the natural beauty of the wood. Even though the wood is still "protected" it has lost much of it's "pretty."

If after reading this you still want to try over application, please use the product as recommended a few times first. That way you have a good base line understanding of how the product works before you deviate from the preferred application methods. In this way you will be much less likely to have any of the problems listed above.

[plainpainter 217]

Russell I have since used the product exactly as you described - that was my first job - my products were much more liquidy, and you needed to constantly reapply to have something stay on the surface - they were too thin - that was what I was use to up to '06. I am just posting this - as I want people to know that an overapplication type job - still looks like the day I left it. It's not quite thick like Sikkens DEK - but it is shiny on the summer grain, and still intact. I did another deck exactly as you described - totally matte and absorbed into the wood - real curious how it will hold out in comparison.

[RPetry 564]

I'll piggyback on Daniel's thread. This is my first hardwood WTW deck in progress. Ipe', 10 months old, stripped, actually parts stripped twice, and the stain in the picture is still curing. The color is a custom tint.

Looks very good and I'll try to take a few more pics when it has cured. Will be back Monday for touch up and payment.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Beautiful! :)

Looks get Rick, I know you will be glad to get that finished.

Bet

[StainlessDeal 16]

That looks like a brochure pic. As usual, nicely done, Rick!

(And no wetsuit required.):)

[RPetry 564]

Beth,

I know you will be glad to get that finished.

Hah!, you are not kidding. Tried to start and end this job in late May. What is it, late July? A true nightmare. Seems to be one every season but this job will never be forgotten.

[RPetry 564]

Hey Scott!

How's the oracle of Omaha? Hope you and the bride are well in the true mid America.

(And no wetsuit required.):)

Thats a trick I have yet needed to duplicate. Please tell Eric to keep his lousy pool chlorine off my RS deck! Off to the Jersey shore. Nebraska needs an ocean!

[bigchaz 157]

wow beautiful job there rick

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

We got our pails of Wood Tux "classic" in and will probably begin applying from them next week. We did open one, and compare it to the "fixed" wood tux (not the tacky batch bu the fixed but thin batch) and from what we could tell is is thicker, and seems to set up just fine. We are very glad to see it. It's nice to have the "classic" back.

Rod visited an ipe deck about a week ago. This deck, was done in March with a pail of WTW that was from the end of last season, so it should be the "classic". It was holding up beautifully compared to how the prior product held up on that deck which was Cabot's ATO. The owner was thrilled and glad we changed them from ATO to WTW.

Also have some WTW from last season (again, should be the same as "classic" from what Russell has said) on our teak deck furniture in late march, early april. We get lots of sun on the deck, and it looks like it was just applied a month ago. Again, last time we put ATO on it and by this time in the season last year the ATO was failing. The WTW is not.

We are glad the "classic" is back. And we will be glad to apply it and see how well it lasts.

Beth

[PressurePros 249]

Long live WoodZotic !! Looks great Rick. Is the homeowner happy?

[Scott Paul 164]

We got our pails of Wood Tux "classic" in and will probably begin applying from them next week. We did open one, and compare it to the "fixed" wood tux (not the tacky batch bu the fixed but thin batch) and from what we could tell is is thicker, and seems to set up just fine. We are very glad to see it. It's nice to have the "classic" back.

Beth

Since getting the Wood Tux "Classic" in stock we have had zero complaints. No sticky/tacky decks and yet to see anyone with shiny spots. Everyone who buys from our "brick and mortar" store in Michigan uses the 18" speed mop for the floors. This probably helps with over application and "shiny" spots.

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Everyone who buys from our "brick and mortar" store in Michigan uses the 18" speed mop for the floors. This probably helps with over application and "shiny" spots.

Scott,

Do you have any feedback as to how they are contending with cupped boards and the 18" speed mops effectiveness of use on them? This is my only concern with such a large applicator.

Rick,

I for one am glad that you are finally obtaining the results you are looking for. I have been waiting to get your feedback on WT for years and hopefully it will be favorable.

Rod!~

[Scott Paul 164]

Rod-

The pads give the ability to squeeze/push the stain around cupped or popped ends. The biggest problem you will have is that the pads will eventually tear and small chunks will come out. This usually happens from nail pops and unlevel boards. We keep our pads constantly wet by leaving them in the stain from day to day so they do not dry out. Works well if you are using the same color/product and you are doing decks consistently. We probably average about 6-8 decks before we toss them in the garbage. We have a new coupon that if you buy 6(a case) or more replacement pads the price will drop to $8.50 each.

6MOPREPLACEMENTPADCOUPON

[YVPW 20]

I used the 18" pads on one deck and it left bristles over the whole thing. IMO the lambswool pads are a lot better, would be nice to have them in 18".

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Rod-

The pads give the ability to squeeze/push the stain around cupped or popped ends. The biggest problem you will have is that the pads will eventually tear and small chunks will come out. This usually happens from nail pops and unlevel boards. We keep our pads constantly wet by leaving them in the stain from day to day so they do not dry out. Works well if you are using the same color/product and you are doing decks consistently. We probably average about 6-8 decks before we toss them in the garbage. We have a new coupon that if you buy 6(a case) or more replacement pads the price will drop to $8.50 each.

6MOPREPLACEMENTPADCOUPON

Cool stuff.

We have found with the Shurline pads the little hairs get left behind - but this is not just with WT, it happens with all the alkyds we use ever since the VOC changes. Very odd, but whatever happened to these formulas - for WT, SRD and ATO, all three now release the little hairs where before they didn't.

May have to try the 18" pads.

Beth

[Scott Paul 164]

I used the 18" pads on one deck and it left bristles over the whole thing. IMO the lambswool pads are a lot better, would be nice to have them in 18".

Never seen bristles and you are the first who has ever mentioned it. I can get 16" Lambs wool pads. We have had negative feedback on them though. They use alot more product.

[Scott Paul 164]

Cool stuff.

We have found with the Shurline pads the little hairs get left behind - but this is not just with WT, it happens with all the alkyds we use ever since the VOC changes. Very odd, but whatever happened to these formulas - for WT, SRD and ATO, all three now release the little hairs where before they didn't.

May have to try the 18" pads.

Beth

Shurline has different grade of products. The pads used to be made by EZ Paintr then switched to Rubbermaid then bought out by Shurline. Technically they say Shurline on the packaging but are made at the same plant where the EZ Paintr's were made. They are not the same pad as you see in HD. Those pads fall apart when dipped in an oil based product. Cheap bristles and glue.

[bigchaz 157]

How hard are you guys pressing these things? I usually like to soak it in product and just float it along the deck. Never had any problems with bristles coming out. Once the stain is covered Ill go back over to even it out.

[plainpainter 217]

Two things - first I think Russell should adopt the name 'classic' - like classic coco-cola. And offer it - and then experiment and offer advancements with another line, say woodtux-wet-advanced. Basically the wtw-advanced would be the test bed to try different resins, different alcohol contents, anticipating future reduction VOC changes. And then leave the WTW-Classic alone, for the majority of the rest of us.

#2 - Rick, how did you decide to neutralize that deck, is that the regular 6ozs. of citric/no-rinse? I have found that the degree of brightening seems to be only a function of how much acid concentration you have and not so much dwell. Like 4ozs. oxalic dwelling for 10 minutes will not be as severe as 8ozs. dwelling for 5 minutes. That being said - I seem to like 4 ozs. of oxalic per gallon on pressure treated - unless the customer wants a really light finish.

[Dale 16]

Looks great!....shouldn't you have started at the other end?...looks like you have to leap over the railing...just sayin..

[YVPW 20]

I had a brand new pad and you could rub over it and the bristles come out. It covered the deck with them. I have some more pads, maybe that was a bad one. I'll try them again. When it happened I thought to myself does everyone have this problem with these pads. I have used the small Shurlines from Lowe's before but they weren't as good as the Padco lambswool. I used to always use the Padco lambswool pads, they worked great. Then I switched over to using the 10" lambswool pads at Sherwin-Williams. I've never liked the Shurline pads cause they seem to be cheap made, but thought I would give the 18's a try. I was using them to backpad Wood Tux.

[Tmrrptr 164]

Rick, that's just beautiful.

But wazzup with that post top on the right?

r

[Beth n Rod 1,279]

Scott,

Thanks for the insight. We knew of the change to rubbermaid as we had started using the 8" pads that had an adjustable handle to use the pad at different angles (I miss them but still have a few in stock for the day I find the ability to reproduce them) but the pads have not been as good since the latest VOC product formulations release and they leave bristles behind. They will eventually blow off the deck as they do not stick to the sealer but some customers do not like the look and can be a little fussy.

We are curious.

Rod!~